Universal Salvation

[Pneuma]

Ask yourself these questions:

1.) Does God desire all to be saved?
2.) Can God fail?
3.) Would God give you every opportunity to be saved?
4.) Can God fail to persuade?
5.) Does God get what He wants?
6.) Does God finish what He starts?
7.) Does God give life?
8.) Does God do everything with a purpose?

The questions are there to stimulate your thoughts on this subject.

God will have all to be saved in due time such that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. And nobody can confess that Jesus is Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit.

 

[marks]

Ask yourself these questions:

1.) Does God desire all to be saved?
2.) Can God fail?
3.) Would God give you every opportunity to be saved?
4.) Can God fail to persuade?
5.) Does God get what He wants?
6.) Does God finish what He starts?
7.) Does God give life?
8.) Does God do everything with a purpose?

The questions are there to stimulate your thoughts on this subject.

God will have all to be saved in due time such that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. And nobody can confess that Jesus is Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit.

9.) Does God say some will be cast into the Lake of Fire?

 

[Pneuma]

9.) Does God say some will be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Yes, but can a body be consumed?

 

[Scoot]

My understanding as it currently stands:

1) Does God desire all to be saved?

2) Can God fail? - No - as I understand it - God doesn't fail - but He works within the bounds of His Holiness and Righteousness. People like to focus only on God's love - and ignore the other attributes of his perfect nature - being Holy and Righteous, which I suspect creates a God / an idol in their minds that they then follow after.

3) Would God give you every opportunity to be saved? - Yes, I believe so.

4) Can God fail to persuade? - God has granted free will. I don't believe God will forcefully change people's minds.

5) Does God get what He wants? - No, I don't believe he does - especially with us. Jesus didn't want to go to the cross - He wanted the cup to pass over Him, but He submitted to the will of the father instead. God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit, but they did. God wanted Israel to always follow Him, but many times they disobeyed. It's my understanding that examples of God not getting what he desires are plastered through the bible.

6) Does God finish what He starts? - Yes

7) Does God give life? - Yes, and He also takes it. He has made curses. (Genesis)

8) Does God do everything with a purpose? - Yes

From my understanding, Paul never preached a gospel of universal salvation. Galatians 1:8 makes it clear regarding gospel messages other than what Paul had preached, including those people be accursed. I can't reconcile how all can be saved when there are scriptures in the bible damning people.

I'd like to kindly encourage you to be very careful what gospel message you choose - as from my perspective what you're alluding to does not fit with the urgency of scripture to "Go into all the world and preach the good news", but rather the opposite.

 

[Pneuma]

So here is a verse that shows that God will save all:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[amadeus]

Yes, but can a body be consumed?

"Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:22

"He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." Dan 3:25

 

[amadeus]

So here is a verse that shows that God will save all:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matt 23:37

 

[Scoot]

So here is a verse that shows that God will save all:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I suspect your interpretation of 1 Tim 2:4 is not inline with what the original author intended. I just looked up the Greek for "Will". From what I can tell, this isn't that they will be saved, but it is his will, his 'wish' that all would be saved, his 'desire'.

From what I can find, it is the same word used in the scripture that @amadeus just posted in Matt 23:37. (Strongs 2309)

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matt 23:37

I don't think there's any denying that it was the will of God in that verse to gather the children together - but we see immediately after - even though it was His will - we would not. From what I can tell, the same implication is used and fits in 1 Tim 2:4 as it uses the same Greek word.

 

[Dcopymope]

Yes, but can a body be consumed?

Yes

(Matthew 10:28) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[amadeus]

I suspect your interpretation of 1 Tim 2:4 is not inline with what the original author intended. I just looked up the Greek for "Will". From what I can tell, this isn't that they will be saved, but it is his will, his 'wish' that all would be saved, his 'desire'.

From what I can find, it is the same word used in the scripture that @amadeus just posted in Matt 23:37. (Strongs 2309)



I don't think there's any denying that it was the will of God in that verse to gather the children together - but we see immediately after - even though it was His will - we would not. From what I can tell, the same implication is used and fits in 1 Tim 2:4 as it uses the same Greek word.

God has made a way for whosoever will, but even as those in Jerusalem would not, many today also will not. From the very first God gave a choice, to go His Way or to go our own way. It is in Genesis and in Joshua and many other places. Jesus puts it this way:

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Luke 16:13

 

[Brakelite]

People do not understand the basis for judgement. You think that so long as we profess the name of Jesus... Attend church sort of regularly... Make the odd offering... Read the Bible from time to time and memorise the odd verse... Even partake in theological discussions and have a point of view on doctrine which you believe is correct, that any or all of the above means you are saved. Sorry, but every one of those criteria can be faked. Every one can be carried out, even with great devotion and commitment, and be motivated by nothing more than self interest.
Jesus told us just before the cross, the real and only valid criteria by which we shall be judged. And that is found in Matthew 25. In that description of the coming judgement Jesus said there would be goats that would be destroyed and have no hope of eternal life. Why? What made them distinct from sheep? Correct doctrine? The right church? Sound theology? Correct baptism? While those things are good and commendable, they do not necessarily make a Christian. What did Jesus say would be the defining factor in judgement?

If ye did this to the least of these My brethren...

 

[Pneuma]

"Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:22

"He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." Dan 3:25

But those are the righteous. Do you think God would eternally torment someone in flames?

 

[Brakelite]

But those are the righteous. Do you think God would eternally torment someone in flames?

No. He doesn't. And the Bible doesn't say He does. What does it say would be the destiny of the goats? Without reading anything into the text.
KJV Matthew 25
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ask yourself these questions:

1.) Does God desire all to be saved?
2.) Can God fail?
3.) Would God give you every opportunity to be saved?
4.) Can God fail to persuade?
5.) Does God get what He wants?
6.) Does God finish what He starts?
7.) Does God give life?
8.) Does God do everything with a purpose?

The questions are there to stimulate your thoughts on this subject.

God will have all to be saved in due time such that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord. And nobody can confess that Jesus is Lord unless they have the Holy Spirit.

Your view of God seems to be one where he forces/manipulated everything.
I acknowledge your view in that regard, but do not share it.

 

[Pneuma]

I suspect your interpretation of 1 Tim 2:4 is not inline with what the original author intended. I just looked up the Greek for "Will". From what I can tell, this isn't that they will be saved, but it is his will, his 'wish' that all would be saved, his 'desire'.

From what I can find, it is the same word used in the scripture that @amadeus just posted in Matt 23:37. (Strongs 2309)



I don't think there's any denying that it was the will of God in that verse to gather the children together - but we see immediately after - even though it was His will - we would not. From what I can tell, the same implication is used and fits in 1 Tim 2:4 as it uses the same Greek word.

So you don't believe that God gets what He desires?

 

[amadeus]

But those are the righteous. Do you think God would eternally torment someone in flames?

No, like the strong men of Nebuchadnezzar who threw the Hebrews into the furnace the unrighteous, the unbeliever perish.

 

[Helen]

So here is a verse that shows that God will save all:

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I agree with you...but I believe I am one of the very FEW on this Forum that believes is 'God's Abundance Glorious Grace.' ...and.... "the reconciliation of ALL things"



Welcome to the forum.

 

[Enoch111]

Ask yourself these questions:

If you are promoting Universalism, you are promoting a false teaching and a false Gospel. Which would mean that you are against the true Gospel.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So you don't believe that God gets what He desires?

That's not the best question here.
I'm not Scoot, but for me, God doesn't force/manipulate others to "get what he wants". Rather, He acknowledges each person's free will and that love must be freely given.

 

[Pneuma]

No. He doesn't. And the Bible doesn't say He does. What does it say would be the destiny of the goats? Without reading anything into the text.
KJV Matthew 25
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Simple, those called now are being called to be Kings and Priests to RULE with Jesus Christ. That is those that are call in this dispensation. Those that are not called and chosen in this dispensation will then pay for their sin until they are paid in full. See the parable of the unforgiving servant. He was not forever penalized but only till he paid what was owed.

Let's remember what the type shows us. The Levites had to be chosen first before they could atone for the rest of the congregation of Israel. The Goats are a CLEAN animal. God gave us the type. God will not cast off forever.

Lam_3:31 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: