We are all sinners to perfection that God desires

[Ghada]

This is what I love about God's words. He is the Master of brevity. He chooses His words perfectly, in order to expose the most quickly.

In just two verse of the Bible, we see many things:

1. Christianity has always been divided between Christian saints and Christian sinners.
2. Christian sinners demand all Christians be sinners and call themselves sinners.
3. If not, then Christian sinners will judge and call Christian saints sinners anyway.
4. The gospel of Christian sinners is to continue doing unrighteousness of the world, without condemnation and damnation with the world.
5. Christian sinners preach let us do evil, that good may come, by teaching they are already forgiven of all there present, and future sinning.

We see all this being exactly played out today to the letter, and yet it was already exposed in just two verses of the Bible. Christian sinners have been going by the same playbook for over two thousand years. They insisted then, and now, that the apostle Paul, one of the chiefest preachers of righteousness for Jesus Christ, must be judged and called a sinner too. And some say the chiefest of sinners.

I want to personally thank the OP of this thread for trying the same stunt on Paul, that was pulled already long ago. I've learned that there can be much profit in addressing in detail, any teachings that oppose the Bible. It requires honest discipline to be sure that the Bible does indeed oppose them point by point. In so doing, much revelation of the Bible can be learned in the process.

If this thread had not been started for the purpose of slandering the apostle Paul, as well as all Christian saints today, then I would not have yet seen all that God was truly exposing about Christian sinners in Paul's day, by two simple verses of the Bible. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. We see now exactly how Christian sinners are the same today as yesterday. But certainly not forever, since all such things end in the grave.

 

[Ghada]

We are saints. In Christ, we are to die to sin, according to Romans 6:1-13.

I see you are a staff member and moderator.

Do certain Christians on this site also insist you are a sinner and call you sinner too? Just wondering.

I'd like you to moderate about this bad habit of some Christians. It's calling someone something sinful, that others insist is not part of their life nor teaching. Can that be applied to flaming and goading?

My main purpose is to keep all debates professional, and not descend into childish personal attacks. As on this thread, I look for opposing teachings and welcome them, because we can all learn from dissent and correction by the Bible.

 

[Behold]

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

You twisted that verse out of context..

Vs 8, is the Context.
Paul is actually dealing with those who are claiming that His Gospel is "sin so that Grace will come".
He's explaining why its not..

Reader, this is the first time that Paul deals in the verses with those who are twisting His Gospel, into "OSAS".

That's whats happening.. He's dealing with hyper religious, who are saying that "paul is teaching that we are to sin so that Grace will come"

2000 yrs later, these same type of heretics, have changes the bumper sticker into..."license to sin" "Cheap Grace", and "OSAS"

See, these Religious Grace haters, who worship law and commandments and self effort, have been around, since the Gospel of the Grace of God was given by Paul.

Satan has had His people trying to subvert the understanding of God's Grace, for almost as Long as Christianity has been around.

 

[Wynona]

I see you are a staff member and moderator.

Do certain Christians on this site also insist you are a sinner and call you sinner too? Just wondering.

I'd like you to moderate about this bad habit of some Christians. It's calling someone something sinful, that others insist is not part of their life nor teaching. Can that be applied to flaming and goading?

My main purpose is to keep all debates professional, and not descend into childish personal attacks. As on this thread, I look for opposing teachings and welcome them, because we can all learn from dissent and correction by the Bible.

Hi,

I am a staff member but not the same as a moderator in the sense that I can use forum disciplinary measures. The encounter team was chosen to be an example of good practice. There are three of us but the rest of the moderators should be able to help you, especially if you click the report button under the offending post.

 

[Behold]

Christian sinners are the same today as yesterday.

You can't be "in Christ" and be a "sinner".

You are not a sinner, if you are born again.

What are you?

A CHRISTian
A Saint
An Heir of God
A Joint Heir with Jesus
A Brethren
A Temple of the Holy Spirit
A Made Righteous
A Born again
A New Creation in Christ
A Translated from Darkness to Light
A Child of the Light

Unbelievers who are not born again.... are "sinners", because they are under the Law and its the LAW that defines carnality as "transgressing the law". = "sin" = "sinner".

The Born again are "not under the Law" but "under Grace"...

"God's Grace" now defines all the born again ... FOR ETERNITY..... as having become "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[dev553344]

I don't know if I've already posted this. I will post it again. It is a little definition from Jesus about being perfect. What you have to ask yourself is, are you living this way and does your church live this way and teach you the same?:

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

 

[Behold]

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Jesus talking to a unsaved Jew, who is under the OT Law, about "selling stuff", before Jesus has died for the sin of the WORLD on The Cross.....

John 3:16-17

really isn't applicable to a Born again NT Christian, who is become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

But, so little of what the "cut of mary" teaches has anything to do with real Christianity.
Nothing new there.
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[dev553344]

Jesus talking to a unsaved Jew, who is under the OT Law, about "selling stuff", before Jesus has died for the sin of the WORLD on The Cross.....

John 3:16-17

really isn't applicable to a Born again NT Christian, who is become "the righteousness of God in Christ".

But, so little of what the "cut of mary" teaches has anything to do with real Christianity.
Nothing new there.
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-
View attachment 36386

Interesting behold. You looked at one of the scriptures and ignored the rest.

 

[Wynona]

Do certain Christians on this site also insist you are a sinner and call you sinner too? Just wondering.

Yes, although he technically did not consider himself a Christian. He didn't believe he was elect. Anyway, Ive been told that based on 1 John 8, I wasn't saved for even claiming a person could stop sinning.

My goal is to stop sinning. And I know Ill get attacked for that. But oh well.

 

[dev553344]

This thread isn't really about sinning or not sinning, it is about accepting that we are imperfect and that in order to be more perfect we need to follow the teachings in the bible. I've noticed that no churches I have seen actually teach those ways. I have spelled them out in my posts.

 

[Ghada]

It's truly amazing what is being done here by some Christian sinners. It's the exact same thing done by their forefathers in the days of Paul and done to Paul.

Paul rebukes them for promoting sinning, as though he preached it, so as to include Paul in the preaching, that Christians are still sinners and ill still sin, but without judgement from God. In the argument Paul uses his favored tactic of "I speak as a man". He repeats their own words, in order to then denounce their teachings with his also well-known conclusion of "God forbid".

And here we have the same kind of Christian sinners returning with the express purpose of promoting themselves as sinners, and seeking to justify their continued sinning with Jesus Christ. And just as long ago, they also scandalously include Paul as calling himself a sinner too, as well as preaching and promoting unjudged sinning to others.

And how do they do it? By repeating the repeated words of Paul, speaking as one of them to denounce it, as though he were confirming it as true and preaching it for himself!

Utterly amazing.

 

[Ghada]

Yes, although he technically did not consider himself a Christian. He didn't believe he was elect. Anyway, Ive been told that based on 1 John 8, I wasn't saved for even claiming a person could stop sinning.

My goal is to stop sinning. And I know Ill get attacked for that. But oh well.

So, you don't view it as a reportable offence for slander, name-calling, inflaming, etc... I know it's done under the guise of doctrine, but they have also accused the Christian saints of being liars for not agreeing with them and refusing to call themselves Christian sinners too.

 

[MatthewG]

I don't know if I've already posted this. I will post it again. It is a little definition from Jesus about being perfect. What you have to ask yourself is, are you living this way and does your church live this way and teach you the same?:

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

Yes. It seems to me that no one materially really fulfills the obligation that the first bride of Christ had done, however, that is my opinion. There are those who do desire to live out the will of God, though from the heart and by the spirit and through time, God sees what the actions they choose to do are. One of my favorite looking is to look at the message that Paul wrote to the first letter to the people in Thessalonica. Yahava seems to continually work in and through our own choices, and takes the right next step in those who actively and faithfully seek him out. To love him first, and to love others.

 

[MatthewG]

It's truly amazing what is being done here by some Christian sinners. It's the exact same thing done by their forefathers in the days of Paul and done to Paul.

Paul rebukes them for promoting sinning, as though he preached it, so as to include Paul in the preaching, that Christians are still sinners and ill still sin, but without judgement from God. In the argument Paul uses his favored tactic of "I speak as a man". He repeats their own words, in order to then denounce their teachings with his also well-known conclusion of "God forbid".

And here we have the same kind of Christian sinners returning with the express purpose of promoting themselves as sinners, and seeking to justify their continued sinning with Jesus Christ. And just as long ago, they also scandalously include Paul as calling himself a sinner too, as well as preaching and promoting unjudged sinning to others.

And how do they do it? By repeating the repeated words of Paul, speaking as one of them to denounce it, as though he were confirming it as true and preaching it for himself!

Utterly amazing.

People can sin all they want to, all it does it lead to death. That is a choice made by them, that choose to do so, I am a sinner saved by grace, and I still make my choices of whether or not I decide to sin or not... Therefore this flesh and it's desires and ways can be died to, it is also fair that resurrection is existing with-in my flesh to come back from dying to it. It's very senseless to suggest these things do not happen... EVER. Cause while they can be died to in Christ, they can come back... hatred, anger, lust... greed, if one is not careful the flesh can come right back up, cause the spirit and the flesh fight each other. It's important to teach other parameters when it comes to full awareness, which causes grief and sadness.

 

[Wynona]

So, you don't view it as a reportable offence for slander, name-calling, inflaming, etc... I know it's done under the guise of doctrine, but they have also accused the Christian saints of being liars for not agreeing with them and refusing to call themselves Christian sinners too.

People may strongly disagree with each other here but anyone who gives personal insults is breaking the terms of service. Feel free to report them or put them on 'ignore'.

 

[07-07-07]

It's the Saints who enter into Heaven, not sinners. We have to put off our filthy rags of sin and put on our fine linen of righteousness.

Revelation 19
[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
[8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
[9] And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said this:

Matthew 5
[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[dev553344]

It's the Saints who enter into Heaven, not sinners. We have to put off our filthy rags of sin and put on our fine linen of righteousness.

Revelation 19
[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
[8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
[9] And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said this:

Matthew 5
[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I have spelled out what Jesus said to be perfect. You believe you must be a saint to go to heaven. I will leave the judging to God.

And so I have a question for you: What must someone do to be a saint, should we be perfect. I spelled out how the apostles were living and that there were no poor among them and they all sold all their possessions to live in common. Is that what is required to be a saint? Does the bible spell out how to live to be a saint?

 

[07-07-07]

I have spelled out what Jesus said to be perfect. You believe you must be a saint to go to heaven. I will leave the judging to God.

And so I have a question for you: What must someone do to be a saint, should we be perfect. I spelled out how the apostles were living and that there were no poor among them and they all sold all their possessions to live in common. Is that what is required to be a saint? Does the bible spell out how to live to be a saint?

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus gave many teachings of righteousness to be considered worthy of eternal life, and that's when He said: "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." So yes, there is a righteous standard to enter into Heaven. Again, it's the Saints who enter in, not sinners. We have to put off our filthy rags of sin and put on our fine linen of righteousness.

 

[dev553344]

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus gave many teachings of righteousness to be considered worthy of eternal life, and that's when He said: "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." So yes, there is a righteous standard to enter into Heaven. Again, it's the Saints who enter in, not sinners. We have to put off our filthy rags of sin and put on our fine linen of righteousness.

The sheep and goats spells all that out so that we know how to love our brothers and sisters. We are also told to sell all our possessions and follow after Jesus. Does anyone really live that way these days?

 

[07-07-07]

The sheep and goats spells all that out so that we know how to love our brothers and sisters.

The Sermon on the Mount is more than loving our brothers and sisters. It's a roadmap to holy living for the Saints.

We are also told to sell all our possessions and follow after Jesus. Does anyone really live that way these days?

We have to seek the Lord about what He wants from us on an individual level. Salvation is personal. Prayer, fasting and living in His word will open up the channel of God's divine direction for our lives.