What Are we Getting Saved From?

[keithr]

You made a terrible mistake when you went to Kingdom Hall.

As I have said before, I have never been to a Kingdom Hall. Why do you keep making such stupid remarks?

2 Thessalonians 1
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

A process that is "everlasting", NEVER ending!

Are you saying that God is so weak and incompetent that it will take him forever to destroy a person? The Bible indicates otherwise. Everlasting destruction is not destruction at all!

 

[Jack]

What kind of mentality is it when something is told to someone time and again and they still carry on like they don't know?
What is your obsession with the Kingdom Hall? It's a building.....it does not teach anyone anything, nor are half the people you accuse of being JW's, actually JW's......they keep telling you.....try listening for a change, or at 74, do you some kind of memory problem?


"Everlasting destruction"......hello...? If something is "destroyed forever" it means that the destruction is NEVER ENDING.....
Can you read? Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life..... What is left when something is "destroyed"? Look up the word in a dictionary.

"What kind of mentality" is it when JW's believe Satan instead of Jesus?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

No I don't admit that! As Daniel 12:2 which says "those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake" is descibing death as a sleep, so likewise I wrote that eternal death is like an eternal sleep - there will be no waking up from it. The last verse I quoted also describes the punishment as eternal destruction - destruction means they will no longer exist.

I also did not deny eternal life. I wrote "The righteous will have eternal life", quoting Matthew 25:46. Pay attention! You frequently seem to totally misunderstand what other people write (so perhaps it's no surprise you also frequently misunderstand what the Bible writers wrote).

How can they "sleep forever" if they don't exist? My oh my!

 

[Jack]

. Everlasting destruction is not destruction at all!

Amen!

Revelation 20
10 they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Aunty Jane]

As I have said before, I have never been to a Kingdom Hall. Why do you keep making such stupid remarks?

I don’t think he is capable of doing anything else.....he only knows two scriptures.

Apparently anyone who disagrees with him is a JW....

Are you saying that God is so weak and incompetent that it will take him forever to destroy a person? The Bible indicates otherwise. Everlasting destruction is not destruction at all!

Perhaps it’s time to stop feeding the trolls.... This poor soul is obviously “deaf” to anything he doesn’t want to hear....

 

[keithr]

How can they "sleep forever" if they don't exist? My oh my!

How can a dead person, whose body has decomposed to dust (i.e. it no longer exists), "sleep in the dust of the earth" and then "awake" "to everlasting life"? Those were God's words to Daniel (Daniel 12:2). God uses an analogy, to help explain what it will be like for dead people - he was not saying that there are literally a lot of living people sleeping under dust, who will sleep for thousands of years until one day they wake up to discover that they will never die. If you believe it literally then you are a fool! I was using the same analogy for those who will suffer the "second death" - death is likened to a sleep, whether it is for thousand of years until they are resurrected to life, or whether it is forever with no hope of a resurrection to life.

God uses a lot of figures of speech and types, etc.. You need to realise that if you want to be able to correctly understand what God is saying to us.

 

[Jack]

How can a dead person, whose body has decomposed to dust (i.e. it no longer exists), "sleep in the dust of the earth" and then "awake" "to everlasting life"? Those were God's words to Daniel (Daniel 12:2). God uses an analogy, to help explain what it will be like for dead people - he was not saying that there are literally a lot of living people sleeping under dust, who will sleep for thousands of years until one day they wake up to discover that they will never die. If you believe it literally then you are a fool! I was using the same analogy for those who will suffer the "second death" - death is likened to a sleep, whether it is for thousand of years until they are resurrected to life, or whether it is forever with no hope of a resurrection to life.

God uses a lot of figures of speech and types, etc.. You need to realise that if you want to be able to correctly understand what God is saying to us.

"Figures of speech and types, etc."

How extremely JW! Twist, twist ...

 

[face2face]

How can a dead person, whose body has decomposed to dust (i.e. it no longer exists), "sleep in the dust of the earth" and then "awake" "to everlasting life"? Those were God's words to Daniel (Daniel 12:2). God uses an analogy, to help explain what it will be like for dead people - he was not saying that there are literally a lot of living people sleeping under dust, who will sleep for thousands of years until one day they wake up to discover that they will never die. If you believe it literally then you are a fool! I was using the same analogy for those who will suffer the "second death" - death is likened to a sleep, whether it is for thousand of years until they are resurrected to life, or whether it is forever with no hope of a resurrection to life.

God uses a lot of figures of speech and types, etc.. You need to realise that if you want to be able to correctly understand what God is saying to us.

Yep, return to dust is the destination of all mankind - some will be rise and be reformed to receive life, or they will return to the dust once more for eternity.

It's plain and simple.

 

[Jack]

Yep, return to dust is the destination of all mankind - some will be rise and be reformed to receive life, or they will return to the dust once more for eternity.

It's plain and simple.

Do you believe that Jesus "ceased to exist" for 3 days like other JW's?

 

[keithr]

"Figures of speech and types, etc."

How extremely JW! Twist, twist ...

So do you think that God used a figure of speech in Daniel 12:2, in which case you are now accusing God of being a Jehovah's Witness and twisting His own words? Or do you take God literally and believe that there have been people sleeping buried in the ground (dust of earth) for around 3,000 years who will in the future wake up?

 

[Jack]

So do you think that God used a figure of speech in Daniel 12:2, in which case you are now accusing God of being a Jehovah's Witness and twisting His own words? Or do you take God literally and believe that there have been people sleeping buried in the ground (dust of earth) for around 3,000 years who will in the future wake up?

Why don't you quote the Scripture for all to see? It's not that difficult. Even the JW NWT says you're wrong.

 

[keithr]

Why don't you quote the Scripture for all to see? It's not that difficult.

I've already quoted it in previous posts. If you can't remember it then you just have to hover the mouse cursor over the reference and it will pop up the verse from the ASV. It's not that difficult for you to read it.

Even the JW NWT says you're wrong.

The NWT is almost identical to the ASV and other translations. It says, "And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt". It uses the same figure of speech, so it proves you wrong!

 

[Jack]

I've already quoted it in previous posts. If you can't remember it then you just have to hover the mouse cursor over the reference and it will pop up the verse from the ASV. It's not that difficult for you to read it.


The NWT is almost identical to the ASV and other translations. It says, "And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt". It uses the same figure of speech, so it proves you wrong!

It also says Hell is eternal and Jesus is God. You should read it some time.

 

[keithr]

It also says Hell is eternal and Jesus is God. You should read it some time.

The NWT does not contain the word hell. It also does not say that Jesus is God. You should read it sometime.

 

[Jack]

The NWT does not contain the word hell.

Even the NWT mentions "the everlasting fire" and TORMENTED "forever and ever". You don't know that's in the NWT?

It also does not say that Jesus is God. You should read it sometime.

NWT Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

You're playing JW word games.

 

[quietthinker]

What Are we Getting Saved From?
Overconfident messengers who choose to keep their eyes closed to anything other than their narrative.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

We are being saved from exactly the same thing as Noah and his family were saved from....not the world and its evil, but from God's wrath upon them, because of it.

As we await the final judgment of this world, we must be certain of our position before God. We must have built our own "ark" which the apostle Peter equates with our baptism.....speaking of the angels who sinned...."who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ", (1 Perter 3:20-23 NKJV).....so, we can be saved through the 'water' in a vessel that God has helped us to build by giving us the explicit instructions on how to go about it. The problem is, like Noah's day, the majority don't believe that it is going to overtake them. And those on board this ark have to do what Noah did and put in the effort to work for their own salvation, and to reject the elements of this world that corrode the conscience, namely violence and immorality. But like the Israelites were constantly told to do....we must also steer clear of false worship. The challenge is to identify it in a world deceived by the devil. (1 John 5:19) The "god" of this world can make the truth seem like a lie and vice versa....(2 Corinthians 4:3-4)...but he can only deceive those who don't believe the truth.

God doesn't save anyone, but he teaches us to save ourselves by a complete separation from the goings on of this world, in strict obedience to the teachings of his son...our King, redeemer and judge, who warned us....."But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." (Matthew 24:37-39)
It's not that the people didn't know what Noah was doing or why he was doing it, but they chose instead to ridicule him and ignore his message.
Not a soul outside of the ark survived God's judgment on that world....

So who do we imagine is going to survive God's wrath on this present world.....?
Again Peter warns...."Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:11-13) Who will enjoy the righteousness of the new earth, if they cannot avoid the unrighteousness of this one?

Our survival depends upon our obedience to God in all things, not just the convenient stuff.....

Gods wrath ?
We reap what we sow !
The blind lead the blind.
Our survival ? One is Saved if one is Truly born again, outside of that one is not worthy of God, Jesus will say he never knew such a one, because they do not abide in the Vine !
There is no wrath of God in the sense of that God brings it down on such, but they bring it down on themselves for not abiding in the Vine.

The first was the flood and the next will be by Hellfire !
The Satanist work to bastardise Gods Rainbow and make an imitation, just as is so with all their workings is to set forth falseness of deceptions and delusions.

The whole point is the deceptions and delusions of this world ? remember that's what Jesus pointed out in fact.
So we have another world that is the Kingdom of God in fact and the world has to come to Christ Jesus to get to the Kingdom of God in fact.
That means one has to be born again and not of this world of Vampires and Slaves ! As a dupe for the dupes, of this world.

We can not save ourselves at all, we need to abide in the Vine and the Vine is our Lord and Saviour ! not the church ? for one who is truly the body of Christ Jesus is the Church and Christ Jesus is the head their of.

All of the worlds Churches have proven themselves to be controlled by Wolves in sheep's clothing because they do not abide in Christ Jesus at all in fact, but look to this world and that's why they covered up child molesters etc and now they are even promoting deviates etc poofterism ! embracing the Godless Vampire trash that got swept away. Why, so they will enter into the Hellfire ! They bring it on ! because they are Vampires ?

Vampires not in the sense that TV cast such rubbish but Vampires just the same as they bleed peoples dry. Dead people ? who are dupes to this world, just like the Jews, who had not the Holy Spirit. One needs the Holy Spirit or one is as a parasite duped, cursed ! a blight !

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jesus said, I am the God of the Living ! not of the dead.
Christ Jesus is about giving one life in abundance ! and that is not worldly abundance, that a carnal would perceive, money etc that the blighted are cruse with.
I know so many very wealthy people who are cursed with their wealth, that it makes slaves of them ! not to mention brings them down as a human for they are enslaved of this world and the only thing that they truly have is of boasting of themselves. how lonely ! subjected to a cruel fait like a boy that can not become a true Man or Woman because they fear to come close to Christ Jesus, for they need this world to be seen for who they want to be seen for. But in the eyes of Christ Jesus ? is that to hard for them.
I have known very wealthy people who are in Christ Jesus, they are free ! and speak openly, not like a mongrel who has an set worldly agenda for themselves.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What Are we Getting Saved From?
Overconfident messengers who choose to keep their eyes closed to anything other than their narrative.

LOL...but that could not possibly be you, could it QT?

The day is coming and soon.....are you ready? Are you "doing the will of the Father"? There is criteria you know....it requires a shared faith with a like-minded brotherhood.(1 Corinthians 1:10)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Gods wrath ?

Yes! Its coming, ready or not. The "sheep" will be separated from the "goats"....both were shepherded by Israelites. Neither were "unclean" for sacrifice, so what is it about the "goats" that makes them unworthy of Jesus acceptance? What is it about the sheep that merits God's favor?

Our survival ? One is Saved if one is Truly born again, outside of that one is not worthy of God, Jesus will say he never knew such a one, because they do not abide in the Vine !
There is no wrath of God in the sense of that God brings it down on such, but they bring it down on themselves for not abiding in the Vine.

What do you think it means to be "born again"?

The first was the flood and the next will be by Hellfire !
The Satanist work to bastardise Gods Rainbow and make an imitation, just as is so with all their workings is to set forth falseness of deceptions and delusions.

Hellfire?

Really? You worship a god who tortures people in flames for all eternity?

The whole point is the deceptions and delusions of this world ? remember that's what Jesus pointed out in fact.
So we have another world that is the Kingdom of God in fact and the world has to come to Christ Jesus to get to the Kingdom of God in fact.
That means one has to be born again and not of this world of Vampires and Slaves ! As a dupe for the dupes, of this world.

Another world? What's wrong with this one?....all it needs is a good clean.

(2 Peter 3:13)

We can not save ourselves at all, we need to abide in the Vine and the Vine is our Lord and Saviour ! not the church ? for one who is truly the body of Christ Jesus is the Church and Christ Jesus is the head their of.

We can save ourselves, just like Noah did, because Jesus taught us how to. Everlasting life is a free gift but we have to qualify for it. If we are not "doing the will of the Father" we will NOT inherit the Kingdom.

All of the worlds Churches have proven themselves to be controlled by Wolves in sheep's clothing because they do not abide in Christ Jesus at all in fact, but look to this world and that's why they covered up child molesters etc and now they are even promoting deviates etc poofterism ! embracing the Godless Vampire trash that got swept away. Why, so they will enter into the Hellfire ! They bring it on ! because they are Vampires ?

I think you have a very vivid imagination....

Jesus said, I am the God of the Living ! not of the dead.

Well actually he didn't....
Luke 20:34-38...
"Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.” (NKJV)

It is Yahweh who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....not Jesus.
"for all live to him".....Or “for all live from his standpoint.” The Bible shows that those who are living but who are alienated from God are dead from his standpoint. (Ephesians 2:1; 1 Timothy 5:6) Likewise, approved servants of God who die are still living from Yahweh’s standpoint, since his purpose to resurrect them is sure of fulfillment. (Romans 4:16-17)