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A burden for whom? Refer him to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith:
Should we believe you or Jesus?
Sorry I was way too busy to address this. Ok so yes I have heard that before. Mind you I am not a bible scholar by any means. I just quickly looked for some stuff on Hell and what Jesus said about it. To me when I read Jesus' words it is clearly a warning to avoid Hell at all costs. Now if that means utter destruction or endless torment I don't know. But He said it would be better to pluck your own eyes out than go there. Thats pretty scary to contemplate.
I know that....but you seem to require God to furnish you with knowledge that only he is privy to.
That is the elect speaking to the elect.....All those who wrote books of the Christian scriptures were of the "heavenly calling". They had a collective expectation of going to heaven "born again" in a new spirit body, but not all were "called" to that heavenly inheritance.
If you look these words up in a concordance revealing what they mean in their original language, you will not see either is conveyed as a conscious entity, devoid of a body.
In John 5:28-29 the "tombs" from which Jesus calls the dead...are "mnēmeion", meaning...
Me too......but I believe that it is a vital subject....and the Bible itself clarifies many things if you study what it teaches in more than a superficial manner. Original word studies reveal so much.As I said, I don't have doubts about God! I'm just trying to understand the nature of living beings. It's not a vital subject; I'm just sharing my thoughts about it.
If we are to give praise and glory to God, who is the recipient? Being God's representatives means doing what God himself would do if he was physically present.....he put a lot of effort into the creative process and preparation of planet Earth for habitation....giving his human children a beautiful place to live and enjoy in return for keeping it in pristine condition was surely not too much to ask...? We have God's creativity and a need to keep busy. Satisfying work brings joy and contributes to our health.
There was no pre-determination as to who would do anything "before the world existed"...the "world" was the "kosmos"...the world of humankind...it has nothing to do with God planning things at the creation of the planet.
What an odd question....what is the "glory" that Jesus spoke about that he enjoyed with his Father before the world was? (John 17:5)
Some people find the limitation of 144,000 a bit upsetting because it might mean that they are not among a relatively small, finite number....but the two groups in Revelation are clearly the elect (144,000 of spiritual Israel seen in heaven with Jesus.) These will rule with Christ as "kings and priests"....(Revelation 20:6)...and they will have earthly subjects.....those who will benefit from the rule of the Kingdom where God's will is "done ON EARTH as it is in heaven". (Revelation 21:2-4)
No, the 144,000 are seen on a heavenly Mt Zion, not any earthly location. They are not fleshly Israel but 'spiritual Israel'...."the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) made up of both Jewish and Gentile disciples of Jesus Christ. The natural Jews prove every day that God is no longer with them, in fact he rejects all who have innocent blood on their hands. (Isaiah 1:15) Look at the Middle East today....it is filled with bloodshed, which is why God chose a new, more obedient "Israel".
You forget that John wrote his Revelation at the close of the first century. Like Daniel, who also wrote about similar events, John was not in full knowledge about what he was writing.
Wiping away tears is an act of kindness, indicating that the source of those tears has now been removed. Those who die at the tribulation are clearly identified by Paul....
"Maybe" again? What place does "maybe" have in a Bible discussion where the Bible explains itself? I don't deal in "maybes"....I deal with what is clearly stated. I don't look for hidden meanings because the Bible provides its own answers.....unless of course you are your own teacher.
that last thought whist I concoct another even more confusing one....
Again what other "possibilities" are there? The same language was spoken by all humans until after the flood. It was only when humans began to rebel again that God confused their language to force them to do as he commanded them. He broke up their plans to stay put and build empires for their own glory by making their language unintelligible to others. Those who did understand one another formed into groups and set of for far flung places, taking their false religious ideas with them. Noah and his sons were still faithful servants of the true God so their language remained unaltered. That is the Bible's explanation.....where do your ideas come from?
"Everlasting life" is a strong delusion? Really?
In the Christian Scriptures, the word ai·onʹ may denote a time period of indefinite or indeterminate length, a period of remote, but not endless, time. For example, ai·onʹ can be rendered to by the expression “of old,” “of old time,” “in ancient times.” in some translations, and the meaning is self evident. Often, however, the context suggests that ai·onʹ is to be understood to refer to a time period of undefined length because of the possibility of such periods being endless in duration. That would make sense because in the flesh, "forever" can mean endless life until the person disqualifies him/herself from life by disobedience.....that means that they can live for an undefined period of time and then lose their life by making a wrong choice. That was the proposition in Eden.....everlasting life was held out to the first humans on the condition of their continued obedience....but if they disobeyed, their life would be terminated in death. Unending life was held out to them but they lost it.
I don't require God to do anything! I don't see anything wrong with trying to understand, logically, what the Scriptures tell us. A better understanding makes it easier to believe and can only increase our faith. We're encouraged to study the Scriptures, not to just believe them without any understanding of them - 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV):
As far as I'm aware there is only one calling, and only one faith:
Correct, Adam wasn't informed of everything! Some things were kept from him, and others, for a long time. As Paul said, Romans 14:24-25 (WEB):
Yes, it would matter. If God creates a new living being, and that being identifies itself as you, then he/she will no doubt be content. But if it's not actually you then it matters to you! It wouldn't be you waking up, it would be somebody else who just happens to think like you did and has identical memories to those you had. Would Jesus have been willing to die, praying that God would restore to him the glory that he had previously had, and that he desired the Church to be with him after his resurrection (John 17:5,24), if the resurrected person was just a copy, a new creation? If death is the end of life forever, then it would not matter to that person if God was to create another living being that thought it was you. It still wouldn't be you - your life will have ceased.
So in John 4:24, where Jesus says, "God is a spirit", where 'spirit' is translated from the Greek word pneuma, meaning "a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze", does that mean that God is not a conscious entity?
Yes they are! The word is always translated as sepulchre, grave or tomb.
Maybe according to the traditions of men they will not be resurrected, but not according to God! The body of the thief on the cross next to Jesus may have been dumped in Gehenna, but Jesus told him that he would be in paradise one day (Luke 23:43). If Joseph of Arimathaea hadn't asked for Jesus' body then maybe Jesus' body would have also been thrown into Gehenna!
These verses sounds like God was planning things before the creation of the world - Ephesians 1:4 (WEB):
And yet God also had plans for Jeremiah before he was born - Jeremiah 1:5 (WEB):
But he had planned it before the creation began - 1 Corinthians 2:7-8 (WEB):
Perhaps we are digressing from the original topic of this thread and shouldn't go off on a tangent about the 144,000. I've discussed it in another thread so I won't copy it all again here! But I'll just point out that the 144,000 are not in heaven. They're only mentioned in two places - Revelation 7 and 14. In chapter 7 they are definitely on the earth - Revelation 7:3 (WEB):
The Great Tribulation only lasts about 3.5 years, not for the whole of the Millennial Age. It does not precisely say exactly when the majority of mankind is resurrected (second resurrection), but I suspect it is after the Great Tribulation and after Satan has been bound in the abyss for the 1,000 years. During the 1,000 years Christ will be ruling with an iron rod, and it will be a peaceful time, not a time of tribulation. Then Satan is released again for the final testing. Those saints of the great multitude, who are taken up into heaven after living through (or dying during) the Great Tribulation, are not those who have a part in the second resurrection - those don't have eternal life (complete resurrection) until the final test and judgement at the end of the 1,000 years ("The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished", Revelation 20:5).
.)That should be 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10
.Yes, those suffering at the same time as Paul and the other saints. They were all suffering back then; it wasn't a reference to them, or any other saints/Christians, suffering during the Great Tribulation! I believe the Scriptures teach that the Church will be resurrected or raptured before the Great Tribulation.
He who says that he knows anything, doesnt…
go with that then, with my blessings
How is it you did not know I was not talking about bread?
tbh i suspect that strong delusion is a great way to express what we now call “dunning-kruger syndrome,” or iow the concept where the more sure one is of their facts, the less likely they are to be correct
i prefer not to, as i already have anyway, and while there are several others, you have chosen to interpret them differently, as is your right, i might add
yes, but belief is what eliminates testing, and most believers seem compelled to conflate faith and belief, for what are now to me understandable reasons; faith is harder to pin down i guess, and accorded some supernatural office, when i could offer any number of mundane examples of “faith”
aj, you are…quite gnostic right now, ok? You have pat answers for everything? And its ok with me if those serve you, but they make it more or less impossible to attempt any conversation with you, wadr.
yes, but i have already made my guesses clear there, and i am not inclined to debate the definitions any further; if you have determined that they are the same thing, then so be it
the contortions believers will go through to justify their beliefs, is what comes to mind here, aj. It is put many other ways in the Bible, thankfully, and if you are convinced that your current belief there is consistent with them, then bam go with that ok. Have a good day.
you might contemplate how even thinking that you might “help” someone is a way to put yourself in a superior position, “they desperately need my help.” Now i am not meaning to say that this applies to you, but i do know that developed societies crank out Codependents like the plague, and it is easy to fall into that kind of thinking purely as a defense mechanism, even.
Yes, there is, and all must belong to that faith and be baptized as a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ......but there is after that, an anointing with holy spirit for those of the elect, who are chosen from among those dedicated and baptized disciples, for a specific role.....to be "kings and priests".......so for whom do they act in these capacities? Kings do not rule one another and priests need sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties......there are no sinners in heaven so this explains why these alone are given the "first resurrection". (Ephesians 2:6)
Yes, speaking of the elect..."the body of Christ"...those who will inherit immortal life in heaven like their king, Jesus has. Paul calls them "joint-heirs with Christ".(Romans 6:5; Romans 8:17)
Yes, anointed with holy spirit which takes place after their baptism in water. For the elect, there are two baptisms.
See there...the "calling" of those with a heavenly hope?.... (Hebrews 3:1)....not everyone has "the calling" because not everyone can be a "king and a priest".....there have to be subjects and those subjects are identified in the Revelation as surviving the great tribulation.
What was the revealing of the "mystery" that the Jews had to come to terms with, that differed from their original understanding about the Kingdom and who would be the "Kingdom of priests and a holy nation" as God promised? It was the spiritual nature of the Kingdom and its location in heaven, rather than their expectations of it being on earth. No Jew expected to die and be resurrected as a spirit to rule with Christ in heaven....even as Jesus was ascending to his Father, they asked if he was going to establish his Kingdom then and there? (Acts 1:6)
Again we see "the calling"...if all Christians had the "heavenly calling" who would be their subjects and how many does God need in heaven to accomplish the rulership of his Kingdom successfully?
Read what you just said again..... "But if it's not actually you then it matters to you!" How can it matter if you can identify yourself and your loved ones as who you were before, but you have a new healthy and youthful body?
Seriously...?But isn't this you trying to give God limitations that he does not have? How do you know that what God resurrects is not you?
