What Did Paul Mean By These Words?

[CoreIssue]

There are three King James translations listed, if that's what you meant by translations that are "based on the KJV." Of the four paraphrases listed, three of them actually favor the NIV reading.

That is wrong. It doesn't have to have the name KJV in the title to be based on the KJV Or the TR which the kjv is based on..,Which was written by a Catholic priest.

 

[brakelite]

Ok... : ) I was assuming the SDA position would have to be something like this.
Let me get this straight, however, without automatically assuming anything. You are arguing that the "principles of the world" then would be rebellious attitudes towards God, and the desire to do one's own thing, whereas the proper attitude would be to embrace God's law, correct?

Well, I was only answering the question which pertained to the rudiments or principles of this world...what Paul was offering as the antidote we could perhaps leave for later.

 

[ScottA]

Ok. I think we are coming fairly close into agreement, then. But again: What principles of the flesh and the world specifically? Name some.

Laying up earthly treasures...
Food...
Clothing...
The [natural] body...
Your own will...
The approval of men...
Signs...

 

[Enoch111]

Paul was referring to the principles of the flesh and of the world...

1. Who do you think is "the god of this world"?
2. Who do you think are the false pagan "gods" of this world?
3. Who do you think Animists appease worldwide?
4. Who do you think is engaged in spiritual warfare with Christians?
5. Who do you think promotes false Christianity and false doctrines?
6. Who do you think is behind all the spiritual error and confusion in Christendom?
7. Who do you think appears as an angel of light to deceive people?
8. Who do you think is behind all the vain philosophies of this world?

THESE ARE NOT PRINCIPLES BUT POWERS OF DARKNESS WHICH ARE UNPRINCIPLED BY DEFINITION.

Human beings are not operating in a spiritual vacuum. The only *principle* that influences humanity is unprincipled Satanic and demonic deception. Those are the elemental spirits behind all that is contrary to God and to His Word.

 

[farouk]

1. Who do you think is "the god of this world"?
2. Who do you think are the false pagan "gods" of this world?
3. Who do you think Animists appease worldwide?
4. Who do you think is engaged in spiritual warfare with Christians?
5. Who do you think promotes false Christianity and false doctrines?
6. Who do you think is behind all the spiritual error and confusion in Christendom?
7. Who do you think appears as an angel of light to deceive people?
8. Who do you think is behind all the vain philosophies of this world?

THESE ARE NOT PRINCIPLES BUT POWERS OF DARKNESS WHICH ARE UNPRINCIPLED BY DEFINITION.

Human beings are not operating in a spiritual vacuum. The only *principle* that influences humanity is unprincipled Satanic and demonic deception. Those are the elemental spirits behind all that is contrary to God and to His Word.

So we need to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2) and feeding on His Word day by day.

 

[Butterfly]

Galations talks about an heir being limited by age, as a child who would become heir he was bound by the limits set because he could not use or Instill all that his birthright would bring him as an adult - it would only be when ' he actually became an heir ' that he could do things differently.

Before we were redeemed through Christ we were limited, but once Christ came we would ' become heirs ' and this would mean that we had so much more than just the basics ( rudamental ) principles -

Isn't the warning about losing sight of what we have in Christ, as opposed to what the world just has - it's so easy to ' believe ' what the world tells us , but it's what Christ tells us that counts. It's so easy to believe what ' worldly wise people ' relay but what about the wisdom of God. It's so easy to believe ' you know nothing because you are untaught and not clever ' but what about the knowledge that God gives us ect ect.

As Christians we see and know far more than those who do not have Christ , do not have the Holy Spirit- the world doesn't even know it's in a spiritual battle , hence why so many people fight one another ect - but we do - so it should impact how we live, how we see things ect

Not sure if that's what you were asking, but that's what I pulled from reading and thinking about the quote in Galatians, in context and about thinking about what rudamental meant ( basic principles )

Rita

 

[Episkopos]

Let me say first off that this is not a set up question where I'm already fully decided on the answer and just want to know what everyone else's opinion is. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

The principle of the flesh is survival (salvation) and self-advancement. Both of these run contrary to the ways of God. We are to surrender our lives to Him....letting go of our fleshly concerns and desires to follow Christ and His ways.

People will be seduced into a false salvation scheme that leaves their carnal ways intact. Hence the mega churches of today.

 

[charity]

Let me say first off that this is not a set up question where I'm already fully decided on the answer and just want to know what everyone else's opinion is. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

Hello @Hidden In Him,

I believe you are referring to the Strongs concordance word number G4747 (stoicheion). Used by the Holy Spirit in Galatians 4:3 & 9, Colossians 2:8 & 20, and in Hebrews 5:12, it is used also of natural elements in 2 Peter 3:10 & 12.

* How the Holy Spirit uses this word is what matters, isn't it? More even than any dictionary or concordance definition. So a careful consideration of each usage, (in it's context) should provide the meaning that the Holy Spirit intended in using it.

In Galatians 4:3 ('elements of the world') the meaning is - 'elementary rules'.
In Galatians 4:9 these elementary rules are called, 'beggarly elements'.
In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20 the translation is, 'rudiments of the world'.
In Hebrews 5:12 the translation is, 'the first principles of the oracles of God'.

* The context of each usage makes clear what these 'elements', 'rudiments' or 'principles' are. There is no need for us to lean to our own understanding.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

Ok. I think we are coming fairly close into agreement, then. But again: What principles of the flesh and the world specifically? Name some.

God want you to be a millionaire
This is your best life now
God created you to be the head and not the tail

 

[charity]

In Galatians 4:3 ('elements of the world') the meaning is - 'elementary rules'.
In Galatians 4:9 these elementary rules are called, 'beggarly elements'.
In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20 the translation is, 'rudiments of the world'.
In Hebrews 5:12 the translation is, 'the first principles of the oracles of God'.

Hello again, @Hidden In Him,

* In Galatians it is the law which is described in this way, under the illustration of children who needed tutors and governors, which is what these elements of the world, or elementary rules were designed for, to tutor and govern, and shepherd them to Christ, who is the end of the law to all who believe.

* In Galatians 4:9 these laws are called 'beggarly elements'.

* In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20, the law, which was given to tutor and govern, are called rudiments of the world, to which the believer in Christ is 'dead to'. having died with Christ.

* In Hebrews the believing Hebrews who should have been teachers themselves were still children, needing to be taught the first principles of God, not having had their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Waiting on him]

The principle of the flesh is survival (salvation) and self-advancement. Both of these run contrary to the ways of God. We are to surrender our lives to Him....letting go of our fleshly concerns and desires to follow Christ and His ways.

People will be seduced into a false salvation scheme that leaves their carnal ways intact. Hence the mega churches of today.

I would also add surthrive.

 

[Waiting on him]

If we look to the temptation of Christ in the wilderness, we can see what the spirit of this world is.

 

[Hidden In Him]

That is wrong. It doesn't have to have the name KJV in the title to be based on the KJV Or the TR which the kjv is based on.

Ok. I understand. So which of those in the list fit this description then?

 

[Dave L]

Let me say first off that this is not a set up question where I'm already fully decided on the answer and just want to know what everyone else's opinion is. I am definitely leaning in a certain direction, but the following is an honest inquiry for input.

In Galatians 4:3, Colossians 2:8, and Colossians 2:20, Paul used the expression τῶν στοιχείων τοῦ κόσμου, which as I will show in a second translates into "the principles of the world." What principles was he talking about by this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

For starters, about the translation, he uses the phrase in combination with the phrase "the traditions of man" and the word "philosophies" in Colossians 2:8. The reading is "βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς ἔσται ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης, κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων, κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν" which translates as, "Take heed that there not be anyone making a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of man, according to the principles of the world, and not according to Christ." So there is a clear common element to these phrases; all refer in general to false, naturalistic (i.e. humanistic) teachings.

Then he uses just the word "principles" (στοιχεῖα) as a stand alone in Galatians 4:9, "how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly principles to which you again desire to serve anew?," referring back to the full phrase τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου in Galatians 4:3.

When you take all these things into consideration, the word alone must mean "principles" and the entire phrase means "principles of the world."

So the question again becomes: What principles specifically was he talking about by the use of this repeated phrase, and why did he refer to them as such?

Blessings in Christ. Any and all responses are appreciated.

② transcendent powers that are in control over events in this world, elements, elemental spirits. The mng. of στ. in τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου Gal 4:3; Col 2:8, 20 (for the expr. στοιχ. τ. κόσμου cp. SibOr 2, 206; 3, 80f; 8, 337)

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 946). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, I was only answering the question which pertained to the rudiments or principles of this world...what Paul was offering as the antidote we could perhaps leave for later.

Ok, LoL. I think you would have to prove your case that such rudiments did not include Jewish law, but we can perhaps leave that for another day as well.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Laying up earthly treasures...
Food...
Clothing...
The [natural] body...
Your own will...
The approval of men...
Signs...

Well, I interpret Paul's expression to be referring specifically to teachings, given it is found together with the phrase "the traditions of men." What traditions and principles in the sense of teachings?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Galations talks about an heir being limited by age, as a child who would become heir he was bound by the limits set because he could not use or Instill all that his birthright would bring him as an adult - it would only be when ' he actually became an heir ' that he could do things differently.

Before we were redeemed through Christ we were limited, but once Christ came we would ' become heirs ' and this would mean that we had so much more than just the basics ( rudamental ) principles -

Isn't the warning about losing sight of what we have in Christ, as opposed to what the world just has - it's so easy to ' believe ' what the world tells us , but it's what Christ tells us that counts. It's so easy to believe what ' worldly wise people ' relay but what about the wisdom of God. It's so easy to believe ' you know nothing because you are untaught and not clever ' but what about the knowledge that God gives us ect ect.

As Christians we see and know far more than those who do not have Christ , do not have the Holy Spirit- the world doesn't even know it's in a spiritual battle , hence why so many people fight one another ect - but we do - so it should impact how we live, how we see things ect

Not sure if that's what you were asking, but that's what I pulled from reading and thinking about the quote in Galatians, in context and about thinking about what rudamental meant ( basic principles )

Rita

Good answer. The same Greek word στοιχεῖα is also used once in Hebrews 4:12, where the writer likened his readers to children who should have been weened from spiritual milk but were still needing to be taught over again the "first principles (στοιχεῖα) of the oracles of God." Paul was referring to the basic principles one learned in [spiritual] childhood, which lends itself to the idea he was communicating the same thing in the passages I quoted in the OP.

Thanks for the response. You give me hope, sister. LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The principle of the flesh is survival (salvation) and self-advancement. Both of these run contrary to the ways of God. We are to surrender our lives to Him....letting go of our fleshly concerns and desires to follow Christ and His ways.

People will be seduced into a false salvation scheme that leaves their carnal ways intact. Hence the mega churches of today.

Ok. I fully agree with this, Episkopos, only my reply here would be the same as I gave Scott in post #36. I think he was using the word "principles" in the sense of specific teachings, so that's what I was looking to define more acutely.

 

[Hidden In Him]

* How the Holy Spirit uses this word is what matters, isn't it? More even than any dictionary or concordance definition. So a careful consideration of each usage, (in it's context) should provide the meaning that the Holy Spirit intended in using it.

In Galatians 4:3 ('elements of the world') the meaning is - 'elementary rules'.
In Galatians 4:9 these elementary rules are called, 'beggarly elements'.
In Colossians 2:8 and Colossians 2:20 the translation is, 'rudiments of the world'.
In Hebrews 5:12 the translation is, 'the first principles of the oracles of God'.

Well, yes. Only you are presupposing things by using here the KJV translations of stoicheion, which inherently communicate an interpretation, and therefore should not be assumed to be "the meaning(s) that the Holy Spirit intended in using."

 

[Hidden In Him]

God want you to be a millionaire
This is your best life now
God created you to be the head and not the tail

Ok, I would buy this, and consider it an adequate adoption of the teaching to what we see going on today. But the driving question is still what specific principles was Paul talking about that were being taught back then : )