What does DEATH mean?
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
As someone that has buried two brothers (one murdered, one suicide) and two parents (stroke and cancer) ... "death" is self-evident. If you really need help understanding the concept, I suggest visiting a local Funeral Home and attending several open casket viewings to clarify exactly what "death" entails.
One could probably stop to examine some "road kill" as an alternative.
On a metaphysical level, death is the departing of breath and the animating force from a body ... it is an event that can be perceived on a level beyond sight (one can hold someone's hand and feel the moment that life leaves their body).
One could probably stop to examine some "road kill" as an alternative.
On a metaphysical level, death is the departing of breath and the animating force from a body ... it is an event that can be perceived on a level beyond sight (one can hold someone's hand and feel the moment that life leaves their body).
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, which shows that God was right in saying "you shall surely die."
But when did He say they would die? "In the day that you eat of it." Which marks the time as being from the beginning...but it creates a dilemma, in that it did not appear that they had died, but rather lived on to die of old age. And yes, all of that could be explained away as "Well...not that actual day, but rather someday "the wages of sin is death." But that is not what He said--but "the day you eat of it." And yes, we could get philosophical and suggest that "the day you eat of it" is a specific day in every different persons life. Yea, sure.
But why then did Jesus refer to the children of Abraham as being the children rather "of their father the devil?"
Because, the reality is that Adam and Eve and all "their kind" did actually "die in the day" they ate of it (of the fruit of the tree of the knowledges of good and evil)--"that day"--in the beginning.
Thus, it is also written in the book of Revelation of the church of Sardis, “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." Sardis, meaning "red ones"...the same meaning as "Adam."
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Spiritual death is the separation from God, with the condemnation/destruction tied to it. Everyone will suffer physical death, which is part of the curse of Adam and Eve's sin. The belief in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day, removes that sting of death. You ask God for forgiveness, He is willing, washes away your sins, creates a new creature and you enter into eternal life , in Christ. All along, faith is a gift, so no one can jump start this process, only one can cooperate with what God is trying to do in your life. Many rebel and reject and secure their fate. Our purpose in life is reconciliation with God through Christ. If by the time of your physical death, you are not reconciled, then spiritual death will ultimately lead to destruction of both body and soul.
That's what you have learned at Church, not your Bible...Don't you mean God and God? "with God through Christ"?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I learned a lot in church ... enough to know what death is. I suppose your next question is, what is sin or who is God? Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He is God, the Creator. So yes, He is the way to reconcile man to God, our mediator.
You learned a lot of SOMETHING!
God never came Himself and died...but you believe Jesus DIDN'T die....
heh
God never came Himself and died...but you believe Jesus DIDN'T die....
heh
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Oh brother! "God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day." Gen. 1:5
A child can conceive that an evening plus a morning together is one 24- hour day. He can see that the moon gives light at night and the sun during the day. One day is not an epoch amount of time. The sun was created on day 4. How could the botanicals created on day 3 survive epoch amounts of time? No, it was the next day. No, it was the next. God made it plain and simple to understand. Have you been duped by the TOE?
Oh brother! Gen 1:14- And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15- and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16- God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17- God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
I agree. When Adam sinned he died that day, spiritually. I.E.
1 Timothy 5
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw grasses spout. He saw them grow to maturity, bloom with
flowers, and produce seeds. He watched as they withered, became dry and
brittle, and then dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably
confident that Adam was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death
and fully understood that if he went ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit
that his body would lose its perpetual youth and end up no more permanent
than grass.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was
denied access to it.
Adam was supposed to die on the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit and
he did; only in a natural way-- subtly and not readily observed rather than
instantly. The thing is: mortality is a lingering, walking death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character "The Terminator" --mortality feels neither
pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until your body is so
broken down that it cannot continue.
_
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw grasses spout. He saw them grow to maturity, bloom with
flowers, and produce seeds. He watched as they withered, became dry and
brittle, and then dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably
confident that Adam was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death
and fully understood that if he went ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit
that his body would lose its perpetual youth and end up no more permanent
than grass.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was
denied access to it.
Adam was supposed to die on the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit and
he did; only in a natural way-- subtly and not readily observed rather than
instantly. The thing is: mortality is a lingering, walking death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character "The Terminator" --mortality feels neither
pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until your body is so
broken down that it cannot continue.
_
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
And your point is? You made statement, "Days were not just 24 hours". So how long do you think they were
God became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1 :14)
Jesus physically died but obviously not spiritually.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 3:8..."But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
If a day is as a thousand years to God, then no human has lived for a whole "day". Adam and his wife did not live to be 1,000 years old.....neither has any human since. So God told the truth....in the "day" that they ate the fruit.....they died.
The whole verse says......
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
If you go to John 1:1 and see how it is written in Greek you will find that the Word (ho Logos) was "with God" (ho theos)......can you be "with" someone and at the same time BE that someone?
Yahweh was called "ho theos" in Greek, which distinguishes him from someone who is called "theos" without the definite article (ho).
So if John 1:1 identified "ho logos" (the Word, meaning God's spokesman) as being the one who was with "ho theos" (the God) and yet he was identified as just "theos" (a god).....researching the word "theos" in Strongs Concordance, it gives the primary definition of "theos" (god) as....
"a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities." So calling Jesus (ho logos") just "theos" without the definite article, is not calling him Yahweh, but identifying him as divine...."a god" or "god-like one".
Then in verse 14 it says that "the Logos became flesh", so it wasn't "ho theos" who became flesh but the one who was "with" him.....
Confirming that Jesus was not "ho theos", verse 18 says...
"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him."
There are two "gods" in this verse....there is the God that no one has ever seen....and the "only begotten god" who has explained him.
There are two "gods" in verse 1 as well.
The word "god" in Greek doesn't only mean Yahweh....unless it is accompanied by the definite article which is usually seen when God and his son are mentioned together.
The holy spirit is never called "theos".
God is my Savior. His Name is Jesus.
1 Timothy 4
10 We trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
If God isn't your Savior you're LOST!
Hosea 13
4 You shall know no God but Me; For there is no Savior besides Me.
1 Timothy 4
10 We trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men,
If God isn't your Savior you're LOST!
Hosea 13
4 You shall know no God but Me; For there is no Savior besides Me.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
How about:
"A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come." - William Shakespeare (Julius Caesar, Act II, Scene 2)
John 20:17- Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Rev 7:10- 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
When Adam & Eve were created, they had no knowledge of good or evil. Death is the consequence of sin which is evil. Since prior to them eating of the forbidden tree there was no knowledge of evil, neither was there any death.
In the very day they disobeyed God, they realized for the first time they were naked, and tried to hide their nakedness from God by sewing fig leaves together to cover their nakedness. This is clear indication they knew evil, just as God had said they would both Adam & Eve spiritually died that very day. The Spirit breath of life God had breathed into them at creation departed and they became natural and of the earth. No longer desiring to please God their desire as well as the desire of the whole human race would be according to the desires of the world, the flesh and the devil from the moment they disobeyed God, and sin, and death through sin entered into creation. It is for this reason that man MUST be born again of the Spirit to return to the life they once possessed through the Spirit of God.
In the very day they disobeyed God, they realized for the first time they were naked, and tried to hide their nakedness from God by sewing fig leaves together to cover their nakedness. This is clear indication they knew evil, just as God had said they would both Adam & Eve spiritually died that very day. The Spirit breath of life God had breathed into them at creation departed and they became natural and of the earth. No longer desiring to please God their desire as well as the desire of the whole human race would be according to the desires of the world, the flesh and the devil from the moment they disobeyed God, and sin, and death through sin entered into creation. It is for this reason that man MUST be born again of the Spirit to return to the life they once possessed through the Spirit of God.
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