What was the date of the Crucifixion 2?

[Grailhunter]

Having a zero point is not having a zero year. The 1st BC is not the same year as the 1st AD. That is your point, that they are the same year.

LOL No it is 1BC and then 1AD. No year zero. Will you save us some time and go look this up.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL No it is 1BC and then 1AD. No year zero. Will you save us some time and go look this up.

I am not even one who claims a direct 490 years to a specific time frame. Daniel's 490 years were up around 50BC, if one is being literally strict in their 490 years.

I am just pointing out the inconsistency of applying the transition from BC to AD.

BTW there is no quote from Bede nor Dionysius Exiguus claiming a zero year does not exist. That seems to be an artificial argument.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am not even one who claims a direct 490 years to a specific time frame. Daniel's 490 years were up around 50BC, if one is being literally strict in their 490 years.

I am just pointing out the inconsistency of applying the transition from BC to AD.

BTW there is no quote from Bede nor Dionysius Exiguus claiming a zero year does not exist. That seems to be an artificial argument.

A year zero does not exist in the Anno Domini (AD) calendar year system commonly used to number years in the Gregorian calendar (nor in its predecessor, the Julian calendar); in this system, the year 1 BC is followed directly by year AD 1.

 

[Keraz]

A year zero does not exist in the Anno Domini (AD) calendar year system commonly used to number years in the Gregorian calendar (nor in its predecessor, the Julian calendar); in this system, the year 1 BC is followed directly by year AD 1.

So then, at the changeover point of BC/AD, there is year 1 BC; the year just passed and year 1 AD; is the year yet to come.
Can we agree, you; CG and others here, that at that mid point - no years have passed. only at the end of 1 BC and 1 AD, will 2 years have elapsed and THEN they are both called 2 BC and 2 AD !!!!!!! Which fools and children compute to 4 years.

People must keep in mind this unusual way of counting our years - AT THEIR COMMENCEMENT.
WE don't call babies one year old until they have lived for a year.

I am no mathematician, but I have figured out this issue.
Any calculation of years over the BC/AD divide, must add 2 years to obtain the total elapsed years.

 

[Grailhunter]

So then, at the changeover point of BC/AD, there is year 1 BC; the year just passed and year 1 AD; is the year yet to come.
Can we agree, you; CG and others here, that at that mid point - no years have passed. only at the end of 1 BC and 1 AD, will 2 years have elapsed and THEN they are both called 2 BC and 2 AD !!!!!!! Which fools and children compute to 4 years.

People must keep in mind this unusual way of counting our years - AT THEIR COMMENCEMENT.
WE don't call babies one year old until they have lived for a year.

I am no mathematician, but I have figured out this issue.
Any calculation of years over the BC/AD divide, must add 2 years to obtain the total elapsed years.

There is no mystery so long as you know how the number runs. And it does not matter if it is January or June. If you were born in June of 12BC, in June of 2BC you would be 10....then in 1BC you would be 11....then in 1AD you would be 12.....then in June of 2AD you would be 13. You have aged 3 years. You have to write it down.....Born in June of 12BC a year later in 11BC you are one year old. 10BC 2 years old....9BC 3 years old.....8BC 4 years old....7BC 5 years old.....6BC you are 6 years old....5BC you are 7years old....4BC you are 8 years old....3BC you are 9 years old.....2 BC you are 10 years old....1BC you are 11years old.....1AD you are 12 years old and in June of 2AD you are 13years old.

Now lets say that Christ was born shortly before Herod died....March 4BC now He may have been born late winter 5BC or early 4BC....we are looking at months. For for the sake of easy counting we will call it January 4BC and remember that He may be a few months older or younger....so write this down....Born in January 4BC....in 3BC He was 1 year old....in 2BC He was 2 years old....in 1BC He was 3 years old....in 1AD He was 4 years old....in 2AD He was 5 years old. You count that out to 30 AD and he is 33 years old.....April of 30AD and He is 33 years old and 4 months....plus or minus a few months.

 

[Christian Gedge]

If you were born in June of 12BC, in June of 2BC you would be 10....then in 1BC you would be 11....then in 1AD you would be 12.....then in June of 2AD you would be 13.

And in June of 3AD you would be 14. Yep.

 

[Keraz]

And in June of 3AD you would be 14. Yep.

Of course he would be 14, provided 14 years had elapsed.
But to count BC 1 and AD 1 as two years, at the point they both commence, cannot be 2 completed years.

It is a pity we don't just revert to Gode timeline. Now at 5992 years since Adam.
The Jews should have had it right, except for their omitting about 220 years sometime in the Middle ages.

 

[Jay Ross]

Of course he would be 14, provided 14 years had elapsed.
But to count BC 1 and AD 1 as two years, at the point they both commence, cannot be 2 completed years.

It is a pity we don't just revert to Gode timeline. Now at 5992 years since Adam.
The Jews should have had it right, except for their omitting about 220 years sometime in the Middle ages.

Well, the Biblical chronology disagrees with your calculations.

Me thinks that you are short in your timeline by around 130 years.

If your timeline is out by this much, can we really believe anything else that you publish.

 

[Keraz]

Well, the Biblical chronology disagrees with your calculations.

Me thinks that you are short in your timeline by around 130 years.

If your timeline is out by this much, can we really believe anything else that you publish.

Opinion is worthless.
If you don't provide proof for your wild assertions, then we will be sure to disbelieve anything you post.

 

[Jay Ross]

Opinion is worthless.
If you don't provide proof for your wild assertions, then we will be sure to disbelieve anything you post.

It is my belief that Isaac was born in the year 2049 After Adam's creation or do you disagree with this understanding.

 

[Keraz]

It is my belief that Isaac was born in the year 2049 After Adam's creation or do you disagree with this understanding.

From the addition of the years of the people before Abraham, he departed from Ur exactly 2000 years after Adam.
Abraham was 52 then and God made a Covenant with him when he was 99. That happened at 2047 years
When Isaac was born is of no significance.

Then we are told by Paul in Galatians 3:17, that there was 430 years between the Abrahamic Covenant and the giving of the Law at the Exodus.

 

[Jay Ross]

Then we are told by Paul in Galatians 3:17, that there was 430 years between the Abrahamic Covenant and the giving of the Law at the Exodus.

Yes, this is correct, but the final part of the Abrahamic Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob occurred just before Jacob set out to go down to Egypt when Jacob was 130 years old. So, when Isaac was born does become significant because Jacob was born to Isaac when Isaac was 60 years old, and Isaac was born to Abraham when Abraham was 100 years old in the year 2049 AA.

This means that Jacob was born in the years 2109 and travelled down to Egypt in the year 2239 AA and the Law was given 430 years later at Mt Sinai in the year 2669 AA and the foundation for the temple was laid 480 years later in the year 3149 AA

That also means that Abraham was born in the Year 1949 AA and that Abraham left Ur around the year 1999/2000 AA.

We also know that Noah died around the year 2007 when Abraham was around 58 years old.

God began making his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob some time before Abraham left Ur and the Biblical account is silent as to how many years before Abraham left Ur with his father Terah, that God first spoke with Abraham and began outlining the Abrahamic Covenant with Abraham first, then Isaac and finally with Jacob.

Now it seems to me that you have a very significant discrepancy in your suggested timeline and this issue suggests that you are not qualified to speak on the End Time prophecies as outlined within the Bible.

Have a good day now.

 

[Timtofly]

A year zero does not exist in the Anno Domini (AD) calendar year system commonly used to number years in the Gregorian calendar (nor in its predecessor, the Julian calendar); in this system, the year 1 BC is followed directly by year AD 1.

That is the big controversy of 500AD. Not settled to this day by many. No one even experienced this alleged discrepancy. If it is based on a birth, it is one way. If it is just a technical point, based on something else.

Please provide a quote from Bede or the priest who defined the Day of the Lord.

 

[Keraz]

Now it seems to me that you have a very significant discrepancy in your suggested timeline and this issue suggests that you are not qualified to speak on the End Time prophecies as outlined within the Bible.

It is obvious to me that you have an agenda, have a problem with Bible Prophecy and bring in unnecessary details to confuse the issue.
I have posted the accurate, Biblical and historical timeline on this forum before. I hesitate to just keep on posting something which just gets ignored because it doesn't suit people.
It can be viewed at logostelos.info; in the subject of 7000 year Plan.

 

[Jay Ross]

It is obvious to me that you have an agenda, have a problem with Bible Prophecy and bring in unnecessary details to confuse the issue.
I have posted the accurate, Biblical and historical timeline on this forum before. I hesitate to just keep on posting something which just gets ignored because it doesn't suit people.
It can be viewed at logostelos.info; in the subject of 7000-year Plan.

No Keraz, I have no problems with Biblical prophecy, just your published understanding of what you believe is the unfolding of Biblical Prophecy.

Chronologically, I can go from Adam's creation in Genesis 1 to the time of the final judgement without leaving the Old Testament, by correctly understanding God's Prophetic word. The thing is that the 7,000 years that you want to contain God's overall timeline in is short by around 168 years and as such your timeline is misleading.

Now if Christ's birth occurred in the year 4 BC then Adam was created in the year 4,100 BC and the Chronology of the Old Testament time period up to the birth of Christ fits in nicely and the completion of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children will come to its prophetic completion as Paul tells us when the fullness with respect to time of the Gentiles has run its course to the completion of the 2,300 years that the gentiles will be allowed to trample God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts which ends with God Judging the Kings of the earth in around 20 -25 years time after which God will begin gathering Israel to Himself to redeem them and will plant the Israelites into the fertile field of Christ scattered throughout all of the earth and will teach them about the religion of Christ and we know from Daniel that this religion will become the greatest religion on all of the earth.

God also has told us that the Israelites are hated because the nations of the kings of the earth hate the religion of Israel/Christ/God because they do not want to yield to God ways and purposes.

But you hold to the tradition of the fathers of Israel and believe that the "Promised Land" of Gemesis 15:17-21 is a "forever" covenant, whereas it was a sign covenant, for a prescribed time period, for Israel to confirm that if they had possession of the described land for a period of time that they would inherit the whole earth when they will begin to live with God on the earth after the time of the final judgement.

But you preach that Israel, and the Christians, must begin to live in the Land of Canaan during the End Days contrary to God's Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Peoples of the earth Covenant which God will make like new once again when He gathers Israel to Himself.

Your understanding is contrary to what is found in God's Holy Words.

Have a good day now, you hear me.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is the big controversy of 500AD. Not settled to this day by many. No one even experienced this alleged discrepancy. If it is based on a birth, it is one way. If it is just a technical point, based on something else.

Please provide a quote from Bede or the priest who defined the Day of the Lord.

It appears that you are mixed up on something. You need to do some research on this, because in fact it is a little confusing.

The Julien calendar was up and rolling by 45BC. Roman numbers I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI, XII etc did not have a 0.

The Hebrew calendar and its sources is a matter of study because it is not a simple thing. What they mostly focused on was the months, not so much the years, which is one the reasons that you are not going to see year dates in the Old Testament. Their months reset every new moon (no moon) Every new moon was day 1 of the month and the 15th of the month was a full moon. As they moved from one month to another the days of the week did not reset. That makes sense because they could not change the 7 day rotation of the Sabbath. That is why Passover could occur any day of the week. Easter is also based on the time of Passover....but the first Sunday after Passover.

The Gregorian calendar was introduced in October 1582 and was based on the birth of Christ, but it was off a few years and did not initially have a zero or year zero. The first known English use of zero was in 1598.

Various number systems used a null symbol for 0, around 150AD but mostly as a place setting for equations. Some mathematical humor.....number were values.....the idea of something being nothing did not make sense to them.

 

[Timtofly]

It appears that you are mixed up on something. You need to do some research on this, because in fact it is a little confusing.

The Julien calendar was up and rolling by 45BC. Roman numbers I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI, XII etc did not have a 0.

The Hebrew calendar and its sources is a matter of study because it is not a simple thing. What they mostly focused on was the months, not so much the years, which is one the reasons that you are not going to see year dates in the Old Testament. Their months reset every new moon (no moon) Every new moon was day 1 of the month and the 15th of the month was a full moon. As they moved from one month to another the days of the week did not reset. That makes sense because they could not change the 7 day rotation of the Sabbath. That is why Passover could occur any day of the week. Easter is also based on the time of Passover....but the first Sunday after Passover.

The Gregorian calendar was introduced in October 1582 and was based on the birth of Christ, but it was off a few years and did not initially have a zero or year zero. The first known English use of zero was in 1598.

Various number systems used a null symbol for 0, around 150AD but mostly as a place setting for equations. Some mathematical humor.....number were values.....the idea of something being nothing did not make sense to them.

As pointed out, people determined 500 and 1500 years after the fact an artificial time scale. No one actually experienced what people claim.

No one at the time declared we live in BC or AD. In changing calendars people even removed time from existence to recalculate dates.

The only consensus we have is a choice in the margin of error 30 or 33 AD. Even the 15th year of Tiberius would have nothing to do with the change from BC to AD. The only thing effected is Herod and building the temple.

I have pointed out that Daniel's full 70 weeks ended before 50BC. But every one here seems to want to get those 70 weeks "right" to the second.

Jesus Christ the King (Jesus Messiah the Prince) is the 70th week, as defined by Gabriel to Daniel and the Revelation of Jesus by John. Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks, in fact Jesus was born way after those 69 weeks. Simeon and Anna seem to be the only ones still waiting. Luke 2:24-40.

The 70th week was not completed in the first century. The second half with Jesus as the King to come (Prince to come) keeps getting shorter as Jesus has yet to return. When the 7th Trumpet stops sounding the 70th week will be completed. The 7th Trumpet is Daniel 9:27, not the 70th week. Jesus is the 70th week. Jesus is not the 7th Trumpet. Jesus is the one who confirms the Atonement at the 7th Trumpet, which determines if Satan is allowed 42 months or not.

 

[Grailhunter]

As pointed out, people determined 500 and 1500 years after the fact an artificial time scale. No one actually experienced what people claim.

No one at the time declared we live in BC or AD. In changing calendars people even removed time from existence to recalculate dates.

The only consensus we have is a choice in the margin of error 30 or 33 AD. Even the 15th year of Tiberius would have nothing to do with the change from BC to AD. The only thing effected is Herod and building the temple.

I have pointed out that Daniel's full 70 weeks ended before 50BC. But every one here seems to want to get those 70 weeks "right" to the second.

Jesus Christ the King (Jesus Messiah the Prince) is the 70th week, as defined by Gabriel to Daniel and the Revelation of Jesus by John. Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks, in fact Jesus was born way after those 69 weeks. Simeon and Anna seem to be the only ones still waiting. Luke 2:24-40.

The 70th week was not completed in the first century. The second half with Jesus as the King to come (Prince to come) keeps getting shorter as Jesus has yet to return. When the 7th Trumpet stops sounding the 70th week will be completed. The 7th Trumpet is Daniel 9:27, not the 70th week. Jesus is the 70th week. Jesus is not the 7th Trumpet. Jesus is the one who confirms the Atonement at the 7th Trumpet, which determines if Satan is allowed 42 months or not.

I tried to help you.
I have heard some pretty good explanations for the prophecies, which is fine and understanding the prophecies is the importance.
The failures are usually when people try to date the prophecies......for a few reasons. There are no dates in the Old Testament and there are some very good reasons for this.....
1. This is not a number centric society. No standard Hebrew number system. Even counting cows are represented as I I I I I I I on stone or parchment.
2. The Hebrew calendar is not accurate.
3. You cannot count on the Pagan calendars in this time period either because they are not accurate.
4. For these reasons the failures to estimate the conclusion of the prophecies will include all these but especially when to start counting. The people that have studied prophecies over the centuries are usually arguing over when to start counting. Usually predicting these things ends up conflicting with known history.

 

[Timtofly]

I tried to help you.
I have heard some pretty good explanations for the prophecies, which is fine and understanding the prophecies is the importance.
The failures are usually when people try to date the prophecies......for a few reasons. There are no dates in the Old Testament and there are some very good reasons for this.....
1. This is not a number centric society. No standard Hebrew number system. Even counting cows are represented as I I I I I I I on stone or parchment.
2. The Hebrew calendar is not accurate.
3. You cannot count on the Pagan calendars in this time period either because they are not accurate.
4. For these reasons the failures to estimate the conclusion of the prophecies will include all these but especially when to start counting. The people that have studied prophecies over the centuries are usually arguing over when to start counting. Usually predicting these things ends up conflicting with known history.

So your point is no one would understand Daniel 9 until 1500 AD when some human produced a calander?

Those who received the message understood it. By the time Jesus was born, Judaism had abandoned Daniel altogether.

God did place times and numbers in His Word. Even if you claim the Hebrews themselves did not seem to count the days. Although I think you are off on how they did keep track of the days, months, and years. Moses set up a calendar, and even 50 year periods. That they left that system, God gave them, was resolved with them being in captivity for 70 years. Who knows if that really got them back on track or not? 490 years later, they were more lost than in Daniel's time.

While the only guesses we have today are pagan calendars, you seem to rely heavily on them.

Is there a particular eschatological bias that makes it necessary that Daniel 9 was already fulfilled?

 

[Grailhunter]

So your point is no one would understand Daniel 9 until 1500 AD when some human produced a calander?

Those who received the message understood it. By the time Jesus was born, Judaism had abandoned Daniel altogether.

God did place times and numbers in His Word. Even if you claim the Hebrews themselves did not seem to count the days. Although I think you are off on how they did keep track of the days, months, and years. Moses set up a calendar, and even 50 year periods. That they left that system, God gave them, was resolved with them being in captivity for 70 years. Who knows if that really got them back on track or not? 490 years later, they were more lost than in Daniel's time.

While the only guesses we have today are pagan calendars, you seem to rely heavily on them.

Is there a particular eschatological bias that makes it necessary that Daniel 9 was already fulfilled?

You need to look in to this yourself because it is obvious you do not believe me.
Who do you think is walk around with a calendar on them in the Old Testament? Did they pinned it to the side of their tents? Did they mark it off. Did they wear timex's? How many knew at any given time what day-month-year it was?

The Hebrews mostly kept time by seasons.....position of the sun....spring vernal equinox and summer solstice and phases of the moon. The harvest and Hebrew holidays were based on these and the seven day cycle of the Saturday Sabbath. Of course they had different names for the days of the week.

We do know that the Hebrews did have a numbering system that was made up of letters.....that could have been used for a calendar.
We do not know how many knew of this.
We do not know how many could use it.
We do not know how many did use it.
We know that more than one person wrote the books of the Old Testament but none of them wrote the mon-day-year into the scriptures.
Usually when we trying to calculate events in the Old Testament we are triangulating from Pagan history and that is not that accurate either.

People have different interpretations of the prophecies of the Old Testament and as I said through the centuries have tried to calculate different things and it usually fails. It is one thing to speculate on the meaning of the prophecies and another to try to calculate the timing of the events.....the biggest problem is they do not have a chronological frame of reference.