When Did Jesus Say He Would Return?
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revturmoil
New Member
Most of you have been fooled. Some of you fool yourselves.
What makes anybody think that the Itallian's or the Catholic's would be revived and dominate the world in the last days? Where is there a legitimate threat from Rome today? So many of you falsely attribute the evils of the end-time religious system to "a false church!" Where are the scriptures that support that and a global empire and one world religion?
Does it matter to any of you that the words in the text of Daniel 2 simply do not support a global empire dominated by Rome?
Rather than reconsider what many of you already believe, you guys go on believing what you want regardless of the scriptural evidence.
The iron and clay are the offspring of Ishmael. Maybe one of you can explain how the following describes Rome! How is Rome divided? How is Rome partly strong and partly broken? How is Rome "mingle themselves with the seed of men?" How has Rome, "not cleaved one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
That's an accurate description of todays Arab world. The word Arab is a variation of the word 'crossed' (mixed). There are hundreds of Arabic tribes and clans. Rome is not accurately represented by the iron and clay. The Arab world is.
This is an accurate description of the Arab world. It's not at all a good description of Rome or he EU.
Maybe you can explain how Rome is infered in the legs of iron and toes mingled with iron and clay when Daniel used the word 'arab' (which denotes an Arabian or Arabia) to describe it!
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. (Mixed with the seed of men)
God also knew what kind of people Ishmael's descendants would be like.
Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren
[literally, "he shall defy all his kinsmen"]."
Genesis 25:18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.
In Habakkuk God say's that He will raise up the Babylonians in the end. NOT THE ROMANS!
Habakkuk 1:5 ¶Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.
It's the Arab's and Muslim's bent on world domination. NOT THE ROMAN'S!
The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who takes his stand against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. And the ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus, again a fragment of Alexander’s empire.
Why then do so many prophecy experts continue to tell us that Rome is somehow the origin of the beast!?
It is my belief, and the belief of many others, that the man of sin will be an Assyrian, and come from the geographical area of Ancient Assyria, which is part of the Grecian Empire and in accord with all of the scriptures quoted above. Isaiah 10, 14, and 30 and Micah 5 all depict an Assyrian as the tool of God's wrath in the last days. (Not a Roman) All the nations mentioned in every prophecy I know are Arab and/or Islamic today and they are commiting the abominations of the earth. Not Rome. Not Catholicism.
What makes anybody think that the Itallian's or the Catholic's would be revived and dominate the world in the last days? Where is there a legitimate threat from Rome today? So many of you falsely attribute the evils of the end-time religious system to "a false church!" Where are the scriptures that support that and a global empire and one world religion?
Does it matter to any of you that the words in the text of Daniel 2 simply do not support a global empire dominated by Rome?
Rather than reconsider what many of you already believe, you guys go on believing what you want regardless of the scriptural evidence.
The iron and clay are the offspring of Ishmael. Maybe one of you can explain how the following describes Rome! How is Rome divided? How is Rome partly strong and partly broken? How is Rome "mingle themselves with the seed of men?" How has Rome, "not cleaved one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
That's an accurate description of todays Arab world. The word Arab is a variation of the word 'crossed' (mixed). There are hundreds of Arabic tribes and clans. Rome is not accurately represented by the iron and clay. The Arab world is.
This is an accurate description of the Arab world. It's not at all a good description of Rome or he EU.
Maybe you can explain how Rome is infered in the legs of iron and toes mingled with iron and clay when Daniel used the word 'arab' (which denotes an Arabian or Arabia) to describe it!
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. (Mixed with the seed of men)
God also knew what kind of people Ishmael's descendants would be like.
Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 16:12 And he will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren
[literally, "he shall defy all his kinsmen"]."
Genesis 25:18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers.
In Habakkuk God say's that He will raise up the Babylonians in the end. NOT THE ROMANS!
Habakkuk 1:5 ¶Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.
It's the Arab's and Muslim's bent on world domination. NOT THE ROMAN'S!
The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who takes his stand against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. And the ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus, again a fragment of Alexander’s empire.
Why then do so many prophecy experts continue to tell us that Rome is somehow the origin of the beast!?
It is my belief, and the belief of many others, that the man of sin will be an Assyrian, and come from the geographical area of Ancient Assyria, which is part of the Grecian Empire and in accord with all of the scriptures quoted above. Isaiah 10, 14, and 30 and Micah 5 all depict an Assyrian as the tool of God's wrath in the last days. (Not a Roman) All the nations mentioned in every prophecy I know are Arab and/or Islamic today and they are commiting the abominations of the earth. Not Rome. Not Catholicism.
In the first coming of Christ, the struggle centered primarily around the
scepter—that is, the right to rule. In the time of the second appearance
of Christ, the struggle has centered around the birthright and the birthright
name of Israel.
Carnally-minded men seek to increase their power over others, and they are
often willing to resort to violence to accomplish their goals. There has been a
power struggle over the scepter and the birthright for thousands of years,
and it is yet with us today.
Genesis 49 records Jacob's blessing upon all of his twelve sons. Here we
see that the Dominion Mandate was given to Judah in Gen. 49:8-12, while
the Fruitfulness Mandate (birthright) was given to Joseph in Gen. 49:22-26.
Jacob said to Judah,
8 Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be
on the neck of your enemies; your father's sons shall bow
down to you.
9 Judah is a lion's whelp; from the prey, my son, you have
gone up. He couches, he lies down as a lion, and as a lion
who dares rouse him up?
The Dominion Mandate gave Judah the symbol of the lion. That is why many
years later, when Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, He became known as
"the Lion of the tribe of Judah” (Rev. 5:5). But with this symbol of great strength
also came a great responsibility—to give one's life for his brethren. And so the
lion had to be willing to lie down in death. The true ruler, as finally portrayed in
Jesus Christ, had to have the strength of a lion and the meekness of a lamb.
This is why Jesus was both the Lion and the Lamb at the same time.
10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff
from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to him shall be
the obedience of the peoples.
It says that the scepter would not depart from Judah “until Shiloh comes.” Shiloh
was the town in Ephraim where the Ark of the Covenant was first placed
(Joshua 18:1). After the priesthood became corrupted in that place, God moved
the Ark to Jerusalem, which became the capital city of the Kingdom of Judah.
Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, but His throne was usurped by the priests
and leaders of the Sanhedrin. This is portrayed in Jesus' parable in Matt. 21:33-45,
especially in verse 38, where the “vine-growers” said,
38 ‘This is the Heir; come, let us kill Him and seize His inheritance.”
When Jesus came of Judah to claim the Dominion Mandate, the leaders recognized
Him as the Heir, but disagreed with His peaceful ways. He came as the Prince of
Peace, rather than as an armed general to fight the Romans. So they killed the King
and usurped His throne.
Because of this, Jesus the “King of the Jews” was never proclaimed King in the earth
during His life as a Judahite. Those disciples who DID recognize Him as King were the
true Judahites, as Paul says in Romans 2:28, 29, but Jesus ascended without being
crowned on earth. Because the Church was the continuation of the tribe of Judah, it
received the scepter of Judah temporarily until Christ's second appearance.
In Christ's second appearance, He will come not from the tribe of Judah, but as it were,
from the tribe of Joseph. Thus, the scepter departs from the true Jews (the Church)
and is given to Yashua the Ephraimite and to His body, the overcomers. His second
work is a Joseph work. This is why Rev. 19:13 describes Christ as coming “with a
robe dipped in blood.” Joseph's robe, his coat of many colors, was dipped in blood also
(Gen. 37:21).
The fact that Judah must give way to Joseph's rule is shown also in Joseph's dream
about the sun, moon, and eleven stars bowing down to him. The dream prophesied
that Joseph's parents and brothers ultimately would bow to him. And this is what
happened in the story of Joseph. This teaches us what the word “until” means when
Jacob said to Judah, “the scepter shall not depart from Judah . . . UNTIL Shiloh
comes.” The scepter was given to Judah only temporarily until Joseph came into his
calling.
Logabe
scepter—that is, the right to rule. In the time of the second appearance
of Christ, the struggle has centered around the birthright and the birthright
name of Israel.
Carnally-minded men seek to increase their power over others, and they are
often willing to resort to violence to accomplish their goals. There has been a
power struggle over the scepter and the birthright for thousands of years,
and it is yet with us today.
Genesis 49 records Jacob's blessing upon all of his twelve sons. Here we
see that the Dominion Mandate was given to Judah in Gen. 49:8-12, while
the Fruitfulness Mandate (birthright) was given to Joseph in Gen. 49:22-26.
Jacob said to Judah,
8 Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be
on the neck of your enemies; your father's sons shall bow
down to you.
9 Judah is a lion's whelp; from the prey, my son, you have
gone up. He couches, he lies down as a lion, and as a lion
who dares rouse him up?
The Dominion Mandate gave Judah the symbol of the lion. That is why many
years later, when Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, He became known as
"the Lion of the tribe of Judah” (Rev. 5:5). But with this symbol of great strength
also came a great responsibility—to give one's life for his brethren. And so the
lion had to be willing to lie down in death. The true ruler, as finally portrayed in
Jesus Christ, had to have the strength of a lion and the meekness of a lamb.
This is why Jesus was both the Lion and the Lamb at the same time.
10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff
from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to him shall be
the obedience of the peoples.
It says that the scepter would not depart from Judah “until Shiloh comes.” Shiloh
was the town in Ephraim where the Ark of the Covenant was first placed
(Joshua 18:1). After the priesthood became corrupted in that place, God moved
the Ark to Jerusalem, which became the capital city of the Kingdom of Judah.
Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah, but His throne was usurped by the priests
and leaders of the Sanhedrin. This is portrayed in Jesus' parable in Matt. 21:33-45,
especially in verse 38, where the “vine-growers” said,
38 ‘This is the Heir; come, let us kill Him and seize His inheritance.”
When Jesus came of Judah to claim the Dominion Mandate, the leaders recognized
Him as the Heir, but disagreed with His peaceful ways. He came as the Prince of
Peace, rather than as an armed general to fight the Romans. So they killed the King
and usurped His throne.
Because of this, Jesus the “King of the Jews” was never proclaimed King in the earth
during His life as a Judahite. Those disciples who DID recognize Him as King were the
true Judahites, as Paul says in Romans 2:28, 29, but Jesus ascended without being
crowned on earth. Because the Church was the continuation of the tribe of Judah, it
received the scepter of Judah temporarily until Christ's second appearance.
In Christ's second appearance, He will come not from the tribe of Judah, but as it were,
from the tribe of Joseph. Thus, the scepter departs from the true Jews (the Church)
and is given to Yashua the Ephraimite and to His body, the overcomers. His second
work is a Joseph work. This is why Rev. 19:13 describes Christ as coming “with a
robe dipped in blood.” Joseph's robe, his coat of many colors, was dipped in blood also
(Gen. 37:21).
The fact that Judah must give way to Joseph's rule is shown also in Joseph's dream
about the sun, moon, and eleven stars bowing down to him. The dream prophesied
that Joseph's parents and brothers ultimately would bow to him. And this is what
happened in the story of Joseph. This teaches us what the word “until” means when
Jacob said to Judah, “the scepter shall not depart from Judah . . . UNTIL Shiloh
comes.” The scepter was given to Judah only temporarily until Joseph came into his
calling.
Logabe
What do you think is getting ready to happen there in Jerusalem per that working?
Hate to burst your bubble, but the RCC is one of the main practitioners of the Inter-Faith movement of joining with pagan religions.
Those who are deceived are those who put their trust in a religious system of man more than in God's Word as written.
revturmoil
New Member
Veteran said,
The inter-faith movement or ecumenism is a biblical concept. There are dozens of scriptures that encourage Christian unity. It's the Protestant's who have demonized it and given it a bad rap....and you fell for it just like all the other false theories promoted by the big shot prophecy teachers.
The Muslim's already have put their faith in a religious system of man.
The inter-faith movement or ecumenism is a biblical concept. There are dozens of scriptures that encourage Christian unity. It's the Protestant's who have demonized it and given it a bad rap....and you fell for it just like all the other false theories promoted by the big shot prophecy teachers.
The Muslim's already have put their faith in a religious system of man.
The Inter-Faith joining of TODAY has absolutely... NOTHING to do with Christianity, nor Christian history.
The Inter-Faith joining of today is about the world's religions all joining together to try and bring world peace. That also is the same movement being done under the term 'Ecumenism'.
It is NOT just about a joining of various Christian denominations together in understanding and cooperation. It's about a joining of Christianity with OTHER religions of the world, like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc.
Under the National Council of Churches inter-denominational movement, it has been full of Communist subversion:
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue07/apostasy.htm
Here's a link to an article by Dr. Carl McIntire (deceased), a representative of the International Council of Churches who worked with the World Council of Churches (WCC), as he exposes the Communist-controlled WCC organization which is pushing today's ecunemism of paganism joined with Christianity.
http://www.carlmcintire.org/speeches-critique.php
The Inter-Faith joining of today is about the world's religions all joining together to try and bring world peace. That also is the same movement being done under the term 'Ecumenism'.
It is NOT just about a joining of various Christian denominations together in understanding and cooperation. It's about a joining of Christianity with OTHER religions of the world, like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc.
Under the National Council of Churches inter-denominational movement, it has been full of Communist subversion:
http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/issue07/apostasy.htm
Here's a link to an article by Dr. Carl McIntire (deceased), a representative of the International Council of Churches who worked with the World Council of Churches (WCC), as he exposes the Communist-controlled WCC organization which is pushing today's ecunemism of paganism joined with Christianity.
http://www.carlmcintire.org/speeches-critique.php
Christ admits to the sending of His angel to prepare His way. He said that only the Father in Heaven knew of the day and hour when this would occur.
I am Christ's angel, and such is the power of the Father that I did not know that I was resurrected until later.
I am Christ's angel, and such is the power of the Father that I did not know that I was resurrected until later.
Looks like I've caught you and biblescribe with your pants down.
How many times has Christ and His angel come into the world? Answer : once
Can anything be concluded in the fact that Christ's angel has returned, Christ already having been resurrected, now the presence of His resurrected angel, too, being present in body again?
Is it that difficult to understand Christ saying "I am with you 'til the end of days." ?
He who has faith will recognize Jesus returning in the resurrection of Christ's angel.
That's your imagination.
But I see that you choose to respond to a question that I did not ask you but the one that I asked you you are yet to respond to.
Yes, your ignorance aside - but I'm not treating it that way.
I did answer it. Here it is again, slightly different :
He who has faith will recognize Jesus returning in the resurrection of His angel.
Prentis
New Member
I think the issue is with the 'ressurection of His angel' part...
Now some might pick an argument about the fact Christ has more than one angel, he can call upon an army of them.
But the issue seems to be rather that you are saying Jesus is an angel??? What ARE you saying exactly??? :blink:
Now some might pick an argument about the fact Christ has more than one angel, he can call upon an army of them.
But the issue seems to be rather that you are saying Jesus is an angel??? What ARE you saying exactly??? :blink:It's quite clear considering Christ quoted Scripture concerning the sending of His angel to prepare His way.
Once again, it is "resurrection".
Prentis
New Member
I guess you never read Hebrews
[sup]5[/sup] For to which of the angels did He ever say: “ You are My Son,Today I have begotten You”?[sup] [/sup]And again: “ I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?[sup] 6[/sup] But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.” [sup]7[/sup] And of the angels He says: “ Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” [sup]8[/sup] But to the Son He says: “ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. [sup]9[/sup] You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” [sup]10[/sup] And: “ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. [sup]11[/sup] They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; [sup]12[/sup] Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” [sup]13[/sup] But to which of the angels has He ever said: “ Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?[sup]14[/sup] Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Either by this you will see it cannot be, or you will further demonstrate you are here with an agenda of your own, to draw disciples unto yourself!
[sup]5[/sup] For to which of the angels did He ever say: “ You are My Son,Today I have begotten You”?[sup] [/sup]And again: “ I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?[sup] 6[/sup] But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.” [sup]7[/sup] And of the angels He says: “ Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” [sup]8[/sup] But to the Son He says: “ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. [sup]9[/sup] You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” [sup]10[/sup] And: “ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. [sup]11[/sup] They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; [sup]12[/sup] Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” [sup]13[/sup] But to which of the angels has He ever said: “ Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?[sup]14[/sup] Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Either by this you will see it cannot be, or you will further demonstrate you are here with an agenda of your own, to draw disciples unto yourself!
What I see is that you a messenger of Satan sent by him to deceive the gullible. You will not be able to fool anyone here.
At the end of the book of Revelation it tells you after New Jerusalem is built. In the Isaiah prophecies it is the city of enlightenment and OT predicted that the people would be driven out of the land of ESAU by fire to build it. In the Dead Sea Scrolls it mentions the Angelic architects and they have indeed arrived. In Rev 3 the one put upon his throne is given the information about the new holy city and where it is to be built.
The New Jerusalem is NOT BUILT...
Rev 21:2-3
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(KJV)
But the ORTHODOX UNBELIEVING JEWS of today, DO think to build 'a' New Jerusalem, and a new temple, in today's Jerusalem. That's what you appear to be ready for, which of course those who think 'they' can build it are living a lie.
Rev 21:2-3
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(KJV)
But the ORTHODOX UNBELIEVING JEWS of today, DO think to build 'a' New Jerusalem, and a new temple, in today's Jerusalem. That's what you appear to be ready for, which of course those who think 'they' can build it are living a lie.
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