When Did Jesus Say He Would Return?

[BibleScribe]

Hi Veteran,

I would suggest that the vehicle mechanics belie your paint. The fact is, you obviously have no clue as to the merit of the text, and thus arrive to an incorrect conclusion. Specifically, ( -- not a complete synopsis):

* The interpretation is NOT from the book of Jeremiah.
* The "going forth of the word" is NOT from a man, but directly from GOD.
* The shibiym/shabuwa (plural/singular) is not the usual concise Feminine gender, but rather the inconcise Masculine gender.
* The seven and the sixty-two and NOT one number. If the AUTHOR had intended this as such, HE would have simply said ~sixty-nine~.
* There is an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.
* The term "after" is not immediately, but simply subsequent to.
* The destroyer comes after the seventieth shabuwa.

And of course, these are not all the observations to discount an ancient fulfillment, for it was Montgomery who described this prophecy as the "dismal swamp" of OT prophecy.


BibleScribe

BibleScribe, on 02 August 2011 - 07:22 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you assign Daniel's seventieth week as the Tribulation week. Do you believe lies?

Revelation 13:5 defines the Tribulation as 42 months. This is correct.


BibleScribe


Well that's an incorrect assumption. Revelation 13:5 describes the reign of the anti-christ as 42 months, not the duration of the tribulation!

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Why do you have to respond with comments like, "Do you believe lies."

Maybe it's you who is "believing lies!

Then again, maybe you can explain exactly how you arrive at a 7-year Tribulation. -- Or maybe you should read your own words to yourself.


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

Hi Veteran,

I would suggest that the vehicle mechanics belie your paint. The fact is, you obviously have no clue as to the merit of the text, and thus arrive to an incorrect conclusion. Specifically, ( -- not a complete synopsis):

* The interpretation is NOT from the book of Jeremiah.
* The "going forth of the word" is NOT from a man, but directly from GOD.
* The shibiym/shabuwa (plural/singular) is not the usual concise Feminine gender, but rather the inconcise Masculine gender.
* The seven and the sixty-two and NOT one number. If the AUTHOR had intended this as such, HE would have simply said ~sixty-nine~.
* There is an anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.
* The term "after" is not immediately, but simply subsequent to.
* The destroyer comes after the seventieth shabuwa.

And of course, these are not all the observations to discount an ancient fulfillment, for it was Montgomery who described this prophecy as the "dismal swamp" of OT prophecy.

BibleScribe

Then again, maybe you can explain exactly how you arrive at a 7-year Tribulation. -- Or maybe you should read your own words to yourself.


BibleScribe

Great swelling words from someone who thinks to change the simple meaning of Scripture. You've already revealed your confusion of the Dan.9 70 weeks prophecy, with falsely pointing to TWO separate unrelated anointed ones simply because you leave off simple grammar rules like picking up the subject and object flow of those verses. The same anointed one of Dan.9:25 translated to "Messiah" is the same anointed one in Dan.9:26 translated "Messiah".


Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Per the prophesy of one of those symbolic weeks, it equals a period of 7 years. That "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks" equals a total period of 69 weeks, with one week remaining (threescore and two = 62 weeks; plus 7 weeks = 69; total number required is 70 weeks).

Thusly, from the time of the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and the 2nd temple to Christ's first coming was to be 69 weeks. Jerusalem and the 2nd temple was completed after 7 weeks (49 years). From that point to Christ was 62 weeks, and that "threescore and two weeks" (62) subject about Christ then flows into the next verse...

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

At the end of the 69th week, Christ was to be "cut off", pointing to His crucifixion.

The mention of the "prince" that follows is indeed about a different entity, not Christ. It pointed historically to the Romans destroying Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. But it also serves as a last days blueprint for the final Antichrist as that "prince". That last phrase about a flood is about the symbolic flood that comes out of the dragon's mouth after the symbolic woman of Rev.12. The final determined desolation is by God's consuming fire, a consumption upon the whole earth (Isa.28:22; Isa.10; 2 Pet.3:10; Heb.12:25-29). Thus the subject of that "prince" (Antichrist) for the last days flows into the final Dan.9:27 verse about the last and final "one week" of the prophecy...


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

To determine that "he", the subject back in the 26th verse about that "prince" must be picked up, concerning the final Antichrist. He will form a league with a small people coming to power in Jerusalem, per Dan.11:21-23. And then by his power he will end the daily sacrifice and place the abomination that maketh desolate (Dan.11:31), which is the placing of an idol inside a temple in Jerusalem, following the pattern of Antiochus in 170 B.C. Jerusalem who desolated the inside of the temple and setup an idol in false worship to Zeus.

The "league" is made for a period of "one week". That IS the final last 'week' of the whole 70 weeks prophecy. That "one week" equals a period of 7 YEARS per the prophecy.

In the midst, or middle of that "one week", that "prince" (Antichrist) will end the daily sacrifice and place the abomination idol that makes the temple desolate in false worship. An idol in false worship is what the "abomination of desolation" is about that Jesus warned us of...

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(KJV)

Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(KJV)

That did NOT happen during the Roman invasion of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Instead, that "holy place" (inside the Jerusalem temple) was destroyed by fire before the Romans could get inside it (per Jewish historian Josephus).

That middle of the "one week" marks the start of the "great tribulation" Christ warned His servants of, and it is a period of 1260 days, or 3.5 years, or 42 months, per both the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation.

 

[BibleScribe]

Great swelling words from someone who thinks to change the simple meaning of Scripture. You've already revealed your confusion of the Dan.9 70 weeks prophecy, with falsely pointing to TWO separate unrelated anointed ones simply because you leave off simple grammar rules like picking up the subject and object flow of those verses. The same anointed one of Dan.9:25 translated to "Messiah" is the same anointed one in Dan.9:26 translated "Messiah".
...

LOLOL,

Sorry Veteran, but the word mashiyach is not even capitalized. And of the 39 instances, don't you find it amusing that only the 2 in Daniel 9 are CAPITALIZED? Don't you think they are the same word, either ALL Capitalized or NONE capitalized?


The facts regarding this chapter remain as stated, in spite of the false teachings which you have received.


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

LOLOL,

Sorry Veteran, but the word mashiyach is not even capitalized. And of the 39 instances, don't you find it amusing that only the 2 in Daniel 9 are CAPITALIZED? Don't you think they are the same word, either ALL Capitalized or NONE capitalized?


The facts regarding this chapter remain as stated, in spite of the false teachings which you have received.


BibleScribe

You're the one pushing false doctrine about that, since BOTH instances point to Jesus of Nazareth The Christ, Who you apparently reject.

 

[BibleScribe]

ROFL, -- You crack me up. LOLOL


Ummmmmmmmm, if someone presents information which you can't argue with, PLEASE accuse him of not being a Christian. -- Good Job.


But seriously, if you want to assess the merit (or lack thereof) I'd be more than happy to walk through what Scripture actually says, -- one point at a time. Scripture certainly can withstand that scrutiny, don't you think so?


BibleScribe

 

[veteran]

ROFL, -- You crack me up. LOLOL


Ummmmmmmmm, if someone presents information which you can't argue with, PLEASE accuse him of not being a Christian. -- Good Job.


But seriously, if you want to assess the merit (or lack thereof) I'd be more than happy to walk through what Scripture actually says, -- one point at a time. Scripture certainly can withstand that scrutiny, don't you think so?


BibleScribe

To treat those two pointers to Christ Jesus in Dan.9:25-26 as meaning someone else is a sign of an antichrist, because denying it would be refusing that prophecy which stands as a time marker God gave through Daniel of exactly when Christ would appear at His first coming.

Also, someone just 'saying' they are a Christian does not always mean they really are. There are some here on this forum that deny that Christ is God come in the flesh. If Christ is not God come in the flesh, then we have no remission of sins, and He died on the cross in vain.

So, do you admit that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ and is God come in the flesh?

 

[BibleScribe]

To treat those two pointers to Christ Jesus in Dan.9:25-26 as meaning someone else is a sign of an antichrist, ..

Once again I offer to evaluate the merits of the 9th Chapter of Daniel. However, if you continue in you ignorance, then it is YOU that denies GOD.

So I'd most strongly recommend that you either put-up or ... -- I forgot how that phrase ended. LOLOL


BibleScribe

 

[Perspectives]

Jn. 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and COMMING BACK to YOU. It's clear that he came back to them on the day of pentacost by the Spirit that made Jesus the Christ, unless of course one believes we have three Gods. The reality is He's in me and you right now. In Acts ch.1:9-11 among other things, the angel said to those looking up, this same Jesus will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven. In what manner did He leave..... up! This means that the next incarnation will be in His people. The world is tired of looking at us, they want to see Him! He has always wanted to reveal Himself through His people. The bulk of the Church is looking in the wrong direction. Awash in escapeism religion. We need the same stuff that they of which it was said "they turned the world upside down".They righted the Kingdom and put the world upside down! It's just not about us, it's about Him.

 

[Prentis]

Big Picture... Once again, Amen! I'm glad you are here, brother.

It's about us being dead and him living in us. If we really let the cross do it's work in us and we love each other as he did, we won't be in the way anymore and Christ will be walking in us, and he is what people will see when they look at us. It will bring a sword and divide, some will love it and come running and be converted, others will have it and persecute the brothers... And it's just the way it's supposed to be!

 

[veteran]

Jn. 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, I am going away and COMMING BACK to YOU. It's clear that he came back to them on the day of pentacost by the Spirit that made Jesus the Christ, unless of course one believes we have three Gods. The reality is He's in me and you right now. In Acts ch.1:9-11 among other things, the angel said to those looking up, this same Jesus will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven. In what manner did He leave..... up! This means that the next incarnation will be in His people. The world is tired of looking at us, they want to see Him! He has always wanted to reveal Himself through His people. The bulk of the Church is looking in the wrong direction. Awash in escapeism religion. We need the same stuff that they of which it was said "they turned the world upside down".They righted the Kingdom and put the world upside down! It's just not about us, it's about Him.

What?? That's men's doctrine of Preterism, and it is a false doctrine.

Christ's second coming is written in God's Word as a LITERAL PHYSICAL BODILY coming, even in the Acts 1 example which parallels His physical bodily (resurrection body) return to the Mount of Olives written in Zechariah 1.


Didn't you know all these Scriptures were written AFTER the Pentecost event?

I Jn 2:28
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
(KJV)

II Th 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(KJV)

II Th 2:1-2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
(KJV)

1Thes 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

1Thes 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(KJV)

1Thes 3:13
13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
(KJV)

1Thes 2:19
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
(KJV)

 

[revturmoil]

Once again I offer to evaluate the merits of the 9th Chapter of Daniel. However, if you continue in you ignorance, then it is YOU that denies GOD.

So I'd most strongly recommend that you either put-up or ... -- I forgot how that phrase ended. LOLOL


BibleScribe

This kind of reply is why I find you so disgusting. Veteran or anyone else is not denying God and nobody is in denial of God's Word. Actually I think it's you who is denial of God's Word! You put down people because you think it builds you up. You seem to think that you know everything there is to know about...everything there is to know about bible prophecy and history. You disregard the historical value of bible history and elevate secular history. When it comes to prophecy, you are ignorant of the fact we all believe a little different and you come accross like a jerk by your snide remarks. You're an undesireable!

Veteran,

Arguing with a preterist is no different than arguing with a pretribulationist. I say preterism should be banned from Christian forums!

 

[BibleScribe]

This kind of reply is why I find you so disgusting. Veteran or anyone else is not denying God and nobody is in denial of God's Word. ...

If you abuse Scripture in ignorance, it's one thing. But when pointed out as such, it is no longer ignorance. It's under a different category.

Arguing with a preterist is no different than arguing with a pretribulationist. I say preterism should be banned from Christian forums!

I hope you will finally stop posting your preterist nonsense.


BibleScribe

 

[revturmoil]

If you abuse Scripture in ignorance, it's one thing. But when pointed out as such, it is no longer ignorance. It's under a different category.




I hope you will finally stop posting your preterist nonsense.


BibleScribe

I hope you will stop posting your snide comments. Nobody is denying God and nobody is abusing the scriptures. You are an undesireable fool who knows how to make a fool of himself on a public forum!

You stop accusing people of denying God. Stop equating me with Satan. Stop with all of your foolish talk and smarten up.

You stop dumping on people and I'll stop dumping on you.

If this continues one of us is going to get banned. I don't care if I do because I'm sick of you. Everybody here including you already has this all figured out anyway!

You're too much into your own head for any of us to figure you out!

 

[BibleScribe]

I think if anyone receives a "warning", it's probably because they deserve it. And I would suppose that slander, name calling, and character assassination would probably be some of the things you might be held accountable for.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Jesus will return when the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the world.

Matthew 24:14 (ASV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.


The fact that Jesus has not yet return means that the gospel that He was referring to is not being preached to the world. What is being preached is a gospel about Jesus rather than the message that He preached.

 

[BibleScribe]

Jesus will return when the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the world.
...

Hi Buzzfruit.

I would maintain that Scripture provides the year when Jesus shall return. And most people halfway familiar with religious events can then guess the season, with the most proficient guessing the month, and maybe even the week. But Scripture says no man knows the day or the hour, and I would most strongly assert that circumstance.

BibleScribe

 

[Buzzfruit]

Hi Buzzfruit.

I would maintain that Scripture provides the year when Jesus shall return. And most people halfway familiar with religious events can then guess the season, with the most proficient guessing the month, and maybe even the week. But Scripture says no man knows the day or the hour, and I would most strongly assert that circumstance.

BibleScribe

Well, I was not talking about guessing when Jesus will return but only to say that before He does return the gospel of the kingdom must first be preached around the world.

 

[veteran]

Well, I was not talking about guessing when Jesus will return but only to say that before He does return the gospel of the kingdom must first be preached around the world.

Might want to look at that Scripture further, and how it's related in context with the other verses it was given with, and notice the events Christ associated with it...

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(KJV)

The Greek word for "be published" is more revealing. It's 'kerusso', which meant 'to herald' as a public crier. It is indeed about preaching of The Gospel, but it's also associated with that event of those being delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ by The Holy Spirit. Now that event has not yet happened today. But it will, for the tribulation.

That event is linked specifically with the 5th Seal...

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(KJV)

 

[Buzzfruit]

Might want to look at that Scripture further, and how it's related in context with the other verses it was given with, and notice the events Christ associated with it...

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(KJV)

The Greek word for "be published" is more revealing. It's 'kerusso', which meant 'to herald' as a public crier. It is indeed about preaching of The Gospel, but it's also associated with that event of those being delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ by The Holy Spirit. Now that event has not yet happened today. But it will, for the tribulation.

That event is linked specifically with the 5th Seal...

Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(KJV)

You see those things will happen as a result of preaching the gospel of the kingdom. It was the reason why Christians were pericuted back then. It is one of the reasons why it is was easy for Emperor Nero to use Christians as a scap-goat after the fire he statred in Rome. They (Christians) back then were all preaching about a kindom that would take over all the kingdoms of this world........they were not loyal to the Roman government so they were viewed with suspicion. We can't say the same for many Christians today expecially those in the U.S. In the U.S they are more rapped up in politics than they are in proclaming that God is going to set up His kingdom on this Earth........they think they are going to Heaven.

 

[n2thelight]

Let me make it real simple,Christ shall return 3 1/2 days after the two witnesses are killed.........Those of you waiting on a rapture,keep waiting and I guarantee you will be deceived by satan.....