When to look for the rapture of the church

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Copperhead

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They were searching to disprove, not to prove. Just because I don't accept your doctrine does not mean I do not accept Scripture

Well, you are disagreeing with the majority of scholars over the last 2 millenia. A basic scripture hermeneutic principle applies.... when the plain sense of a passage makes sense, then seek no other sense, or one risks ending up with nonsense.

The words used are a commendation of the Bereans. “Fair minded” in some translations, “noble” in others. Seems strange if the Bereans were confrontational with Paul’s teaching they would be commended for it.
 

Naomi25

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Well, actually, I think you are. You said, in post #132, "I do not really know anyone with "grace" in their name speaking of having studied in depth any particular topic. And when I say Indepth, I mean months, of researching every word in scripture that applies to the topic, and what it means, then, and who it applies to. And going over and over that Knowledge and then Asking God for His understanding..."

I'm not sure if you're actually speaking of those whose names are actually 'Grace', or in general, but to know beyond a doubt that those people, or the people in general you're speaking to here have not 'studied in depth any particular topic', you would have to know them very well indeed. And the casual conversation we have with one another here is not enough to determine such things. Ipso facto, assumption.

About what?

About anything, I would say. You said, "I used to post step by step every parallel scripture for my belief...WASTE OF TIME...on deaf ears. So, no, I do not really know anyone with "grace" in their name speaking of having studied in depth any particular topic."
This rather implies that after putting your case across, and having them 'disagree with you', you've decided that it falls upon deaf ears and that this is because people are not as studied or learned as you. That's sort of what the rest of that post implies, even if it's not what you intended it to mean.

Didn't say that.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hmm. Kinda implied it.
 

Stranger

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Yes, I see that.

Yet these are not the times of building with stones, but the times of every stone being thrown down. Matthew 24:2

Well, the stones were thrown down in 70 A.D. The Church is now the 'lively stones' of which is built the temple on earth today, a spiritual house. Of which Jesus Christ is the Corner Stone and a Stumbling Stone. (2 Peter 2:5-6)

But there will be a day when the temple will be built again with real stones.

Stranger
 

ScottA

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Well, the stones were thrown down in 70 A.D. The Church is now the 'lively stones' of which is built the temple on earth today, a spiritual house. Of which Jesus Christ is the Corner Stone and a Stumbling Stone. (2 Peter 2:5-6)

But there will be a day when the temple will be built again with real stones.

Stranger
You are going back to Egypt, back to the physical.

God is spirit. Christ returns, not to establish heaven on earth, but to gather us up, that where He is (with the Father), we might be also.

The future is God. God is spirit. Therefore, if someone builds a physical temple...it means nothing, it's a golden calf, and is counted with all that will be burned with fire. Those are the signs of Hell, not Heaven, of death, not of eternal life.
 

SovereignGrace

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And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. - Genesis 19:4

As one mocked....

"Rapture is not in the bible!"
"You rapturists are a cult!"
"We do not believe in a pre-destruction of Sodom!"

And the day took Lots sons in law at unawares.
For that to fit a pre-trib rapture they’d have to be taken up. Look, we are not appointed to wrath. Look at how God protected Israel as He judged and executed that judgment upon Egypt. Same with the trib/great trib. God will protect us(if we’re here when it happens) as the trib/great trib is taking place.
 

Bobby Jo

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... (the) time for the rapture prophecy to come true ...

... is at the end of the Millennial Kingdom ...

DUH!!!

Does anybody read the Scriptures, -- or is it just me?

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, ...
13 ... the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them,

Those who are "alive and remain" must follow behind the "dead". Please follow the "dead".


Bobby Jo
 

Stranger

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You are going back to Egypt, back to the physical.

God is spirit. Christ returns, not to establish heaven on earth, but to gather us up, that where He is (with the Father), we might be also.

The future is God. God is spirit. Therefore, if someone builds a physical temple...it means nothing, it's a golden calf, and is counted with all that will be burned with fire. Those are the signs of Hell, not Heaven, of death, not of eternal life.

I haven't said anything about Egypt.

Yes, God is Spirit. (Rev. 11:15) "...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall dreign for ever and ever."

If God desires and commands someone to build a Temple, then it means everything. It is not a golden calf. The Tabernacle was not a golden calf. The Temple of Solomon was not a golden calf. The millennial Temple will not be a golden calf.

Stranger
 

VictoryinJesus

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I could just as easily say of you and others, because you can't explain certain things in Scripture, you must resort to 'spiritualization' interpretation. That way you can make it up any way you need to.

Maybe you are right. But without ‘Spirit’ or ‘spiritualization’ or ‘spiritualizing’ one would insist Jesus Christ promoted Cannibalism off the literal. John 6:53-58 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. [58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

“Your fathers did eat manna, and are dead.”
 

CoreIssue

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In 1948 did the Jews run around claiming that ? No not at all ! never.

Only Man worked to bring the Jews back to the Land, not God at all ! and Hitler was the main promoters of such long before that with doing the work of his Masters the Talmud and the so called Zionist.

The Satanic Talmud mob and their most wealthy world banks Satanist all worked in the Game to create Communism, this was all planed way in advance and then looking at the situation of just how many Jews there were in Germany, they had to work out a plain, so as to kill the 6 million and this type of crap was printed in the Media years before about 6 million etc, it's fishing for Satanist just like the nonsense of today with all the rapture BS lies.
Many of the Jews in German through out all the decades 2000 year history of such who were educated and had a true understanding of true Judaism and the Talmud because of that seen such as a greatest threat, because they knew the Talmud whore truly was, so the Talmud world Bankers created the Great depression and kicked Germany about the hardest, it was all set up and then put their Talmud Zionist Jew man Hitler into power, if you truly bother to look at how Hitler got into power you can see that it was rigged, look at the party that helped Hitler into power and then they were dissolved by a law ? you don't see the history of that explained do you because they hide the fact and that gave their man Hitler the power and then they just turned the Nation around to power it up, so the Talmud Bankers etc could make good money out of it and them rich Zionist Jews were in there making great money everywhere, but the game had to turn, because the plan is set, they play such games years ahead you know, one can see it's in play all the time when you know how the games are played, like gay rights or marriage equality, when you see how they play the game to make such win out, all the people are played for stooges, they rush it through claiming it's only this !!! but then bingo it's not at all and they take the cake. just like in Hitler's day as to why his crap all got passed without a peep, because the Talmud had wound the people up to take part in what they did and the same game with a whole bag of tricks was played with getting the block of Land for the Jews, they never said that it was for restoring Israel at all you now, as you and most are led to believe nowadays, because most people back in them days would not agreed to such at all, so the trick was hatched on the people thinking that this was only so that Jews would have a land as not be persecuted, as due to Hitler's crap etc and that's all as to why it got past.

Thing is why would God bring back an unrepentant into the land that He vomited out. it just does not stand up to scrutiny at all as it falls flat on it's face ! such is straight out Satanic. not to mention that such people peddling all this rapture nonsense are working in destroying the church mocking Jesus Christ straight out !

Here look into how a group of Satanist that hide in the shadows of our west democracy has helped every communist nation survive for years, because if they did not prop it all up with billions of tax payers money, it would of failed many years ago, they need such communist Nations to play the game.

Some Jews did while some are still looking for the coming of the Messiah.

By your declarations gone should just destroy the earth now and be done with all of us.
Revelation 6:17 “has come” is in the Greek aorist tense which is a past tense. Those on the earth are finally acknowledging what has been going on is the wrath of both / “their” the Lamb and YHWH.

One can’t establish a doctrine that because the literal word “wrath” hasn’t been stated up till V17 that what has been going on up to that point isn’t the wrath. I am sure that we would agree that the Flood of Noah’s time was the wrath of YHWH, but “wrath” was never used.

And none of the events of the seals would happen if Yeshua had not opened those seals.

Don't forget the Bible often speaks of prophecy to come in the past and present tense. Not because it is happened but because it is assured to happen. A done deal awaiting execution.
 

Bobby Jo

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... the Bible often speaks of prophecy to come in the past and present tense. Not because it is happened but because it is assured to happen. A done deal awaiting execution.
Hey CI,
Perfect answer. -- Personally I use the term: future present tense, -- typically in reference to the Rev. 17 mountains/kings in the era where Russia attacks Israel (i.e., "one is"); China is "yet to come" when it spanks Russia; and the U.N. is the eighth that "was and is not" because it has NO Populous, NO Geography, and NO army.


Bobby Jo
 

Copperhead

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... is at the end of the Millennial Kingdom ...

DUH!!!

Does anybody read the Scriptures, -- or is it just me?

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, ...
13 ... the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them,

Those who are "alive and remain" must follow behind the "dead". Please follow the "dead".


Bobby Jo

Except the dead being raised in Revelation 20 are going to the great white throne judgement. That is is the one that is prosecutorial in nature and is judgement on eternal life. It makes the case that YHWH is just in condemning them since they are guilty. The believer does not face that judgement. The believer's judgement is on rewards (2 Corinthians 5). Eternal life is a settled issue thru Messiah.

So these dead being resurrected in Revelation 20 are not part of the same resurrection as the righteous dead with whom we that are alive and remain will be caught up with per Paul. Just like the dead being raised in Revelation 20 were not part of the resurrected dead saints of Matthew 27. Which many early church writers said were taken to the Father by Yeshua. So maybe those are the dead Paul had in mind that we would follow as you suggest.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

(notice in that passage, it is the dead in Christ that rise, not the dead in general. Therefore, it is a different resurrection than the one in Revelation 20)

I jokingly say that the reason the righteous dead are raised first is that they have 6 more feet to travel. I know... being flippant about such things is weakness of mine. But even then, the scripture doesn't say we follow them. it says we are gathered together with them.

But you are free to follow them if you want. We will just consider it a courtesy on your part. Just like in the Military, someone has to bring up the rear. I am hoping to be more up in front. I joking tell friends that I am so much wanting to be in front that I go out in my yard and jump up and down for rapture practice! I know... joking again. Well, Elijah had a sense of humor also. I am in good company.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Some Jews did while some are still looking for the coming of the Messiah.

By your declarations gone should just destroy the earth now and be done with all of us.


Don't forget the Bible often speaks of prophecy to come in the past and present tense. Not because it is happened but because it is assured to happen. A done deal awaiting execution.
All one need do is come to Jesus Christ, end of story regardless, God Saves !
 

Stranger

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Maybe you are right. But without ‘Spirit’ or ‘spiritualization’ or ‘spiritualizing’ one would insist Jesus Christ promoted Cannibalism off the literal. John 6:53-58 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. [58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

“Your fathers did eat manna, and are dead.”

Recognizing a figure of speech, when a figure of speech is used in the Bible is not interpreting the Bible figuratively or spiritually.

So, if God gives the plans for the millennial Temple in (Ez. 40-46), and it's function, what makes it a golden calf? Just because it is made of material and earth?

Stranger
 

Taken

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Well, actually, I think you are. You said, in post #132, "I do not really know anyone with "grace" in their name speaking of having studied in depth any particular topic. And when I say Indepth, I mean months, of researching every word in scripture that applies to the topic, and what it means, then, and who it applies to. And going over and over that Knowledge and then Asking God for His understanding..."

I'm not sure if you're actually speaking of those whose names are actually 'Grace', or in general, but to know beyond a doubt that those people, or the people in general you're speaking to here have not 'studied in depth any particular topic', you would have to know them very well indeed. And the casual conversation we have with one another here is not enough to determine such things. Ipso facto, assumption.



About anything, I would say. You said, "I used to post step by step every parallel scripture for my belief...WASTE OF TIME...on deaf ears. So, no, I do not really know anyone with "grace" in their name speaking of having studied in depth any particular topic."
This rather implies that after putting your case across, and having them 'disagree with you', you've decided that it falls upon deaf ears and that this is because people are not as studied or learned as you. That's sort of what the rest of that post implies, even if it's not what you intended it to mean.



Hmm. Kinda implied it.


Perhaps the one critical of my responses should jump in and satisfy the other poster with their own One liner Scripture, to the request posed, if that is possible.

Post # 94 stunnedbygrace
You can not say post trib is not prepared...

(Which I said no such thing)

And that only pretrib is prepared.

(Which I said pre-trib ARE prepared....along with saying others become prepared and saved DURING a portion of the tribulation.)

Post # 95 SovereignGrace
Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib

Perhaps YOU, can satisfy this request.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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Your doctrines and ideas are not gifts

If I offer you something without payment.
It's a gift, whether or not you understand the meaning of what a gift is.
You can accept it or reject it.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Trekson

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Revelation 6:17 “has come” is in the Greek aorist tense which is a past tense. Those on the earth are finally acknowledging what has been going on is the wrath of both / “their” the Lamb and YHWH.

One can’t establish a doctrine that because the literal word “wrath” hasn’t been stated up till V17 that what has been going on up to that point isn’t the wrath. I am sure that we would agree that the Flood of Noah’s time was the wrath of YHWH, but “wrath” was never used.

And none of the events of the seals would happen if Yeshua had not opened those seals.

except the usage is "is" come, not has.
 

n2thelight

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It happened when Israel was taken by Rome. Remember he said this generation not 2000 years later

Ecclesiastes 1:9 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun."

I Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"Ensamples" in the manuscripts is the Greek word "tupos", number 5179 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "a sample, or type; i.e. a model for imitation, a fashion, for manner, or form." So Paul is telling us that those things that we read about in the Old Testament, of the events of the prophets of old are examples of what we should be looking for in our day. This is written to alert all people to be aware of how it shall be before Christ returns. What was written in the Exodus, or in Amos is written as examples for our admonition or warning. All of the Scriptures is given as a warning to those who are living in the times of the ends of this world age of the flesh. We will see the end of the flesh age come to a close, and there are many things that will come to pass right before our eyes that were written about in detail way back in the Old Testament time, and Paul is telling you and I to wake up to those warnings.

Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

As the disciples were standing and commenting on the magnificence of the structures, Jesus told them that at His coming, after the wrath of God's anger was upon the earth, not one stone of these beautiful structures would be left standing one stone upon another.

Many so-called critics show their ignorance when they tell us that this event happened when The Roman General Titus came against Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and destroyed the city. However one of the points of interest of all tours to Jerusalem is the wailing wall. This is wall that stands as the only part of Jerusalem that was left of old Jerusalem, at it's destruction.

Jesus prophecy in verse two tells us that "there shall not one stone upon another," and that condition has not happened yet. All of the stones of the temple will be turned to dust, at that end of this earth age. Zechariah 14 gives us a profile of how Jerusalem will be, and the events that shall transpire at that time. When Satan has taken his seat in Jerusalem, fulfilling the role of the Antichrist.