Where do people go when they die?

[Grailhunter]

There another modern perspective of that we are seeing a lot more of... You have your truth and you are entitled to it. I have my truth and I'm sticking to it. Matthew is dangerously close I think to this very modern nonsense.

LOL Truth is a matter of perspective, that is correct. Students of the Bible....Students of History learn something a methodology to determine Confidence levels. For example, all things considered....we can be sure that George Washington was a real historical figure ....We know his speeches and official government documents. Now what he said at parties and who he slept with might not have high confidence levels.

Time has a tendency to cause facts to fade, to be diluted, exaggerated and sometimes even modified to accommodate certain beliefs or traditions. It mostly happens to everything. The World Series of Baseball....with umpires and players and 45,000 witnesses at the stadium....millions on TV, 20 million dollars worth of video equipment and then 5 seconds after the ball is thrown over the plate a dispute can arise over exactly where that ball went. After a couple centuries the most confidence you can have is that that World Series occurred.

So then we move on to the differences between beliefs, truths, and facts. Here is an example....

A married couple lives in Missouri....the husband is a doctor and the wife is an engineer, her grand-pa was an engineer and he helped design and build a bridge acrossed the Mississippi. She tells her husband that it was one of the best built bridges in its time. Now she is an engineer and she has her grand-pa specs and blue prints for the bridge, and pictures of the construction.

They decided to vacation at her parents home, so they are going to cross that bridge. They are at a restaurant a few miles from the bridge and they meet a waiter that lives on the other side of the river and commutes everyday. They get into a conversation about the bridge and the waiter tells them he crosses it everyday. He tells them that it is solid as a rock....high water and barges have no affect on it.

Now what the waiter and the couple did not know was that, a primary weld had failed and when they cross it they will end up in the river. Of course I am going to put a happy ending on it....the River Patrol was handy and they made it and received 40 million from the state and they lived happily ever after.

Now what the wife thought of the bridge was a belief...it was not a lie. And it was a educated understanding. She was well versed with the bridge. What the waiter thought of the bridge was experience, it was not a lie, it was truth. He had crossed that bridge all the time, all his life and knew that it was well maintained and was a pleasure to cross. What he thought of the bridge was truth. Truth backed up by knowing it....seeing it...around it...using it. It never failed. But the fact was, was that it was faulty.

So the fact was, that it was going to fail. Awareness has a lot to do with facts. This is the confidence levels in anything that happened in the past....looking for facts but knowing you are only going to get so close. In history you are looking for supporting facts. But sometimes you cannot find them. For example; With Christ being single at 30 years old, we know of no reason that a Jewish leader would talk to Him about God or the Mosaic Law, much less call Him teacher. At being single at 30 years old everyone would think he was homosexual and if He opened his mouth and spoke of God they would have stoned Him to death. But they did talk to Him, we just do not know why? So some information gets lost.

In relation to the Bible and disregarding that there is adoration for certain translations. The most accurate facts will be in the photo copies of the oldest copies of the New Testament texts. We have no originals. We have some fragments and some completes, most from the third and forth centuries. From there, there have been a lot of fingers in the pie. Church leaders that felt they were the hand of God and they had strong beliefs that they thought should be in the Bible...and Voila! Razzmatazz! and bingo they appear in the translations.

If you want to see some thing that closely represent the inerrant Word of God....you need to look at these photo copies...there are books you can buy that have these copies. If you do not, at times, and depending on the translation you are reading, you might be looking at the errant word of man.

 

[Curtis]

"Hell" in this instance is "hades" which is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "sheol".....the common grave of all mankind.
Death and hades are thrown into "the lake of fire" to be utterly destroyed after hades is emptied of all the dead. (Revelation 20:13, 14) How can you throw immaterial things into a fiery lake?
All deceased mankind are "the contents of "hades"....all will be resurrected...good and bad. (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15)

Those in "gehenna" will never be resurrected and will 'sleep' in eternal death...not ever to be remembered....it will be as if they never existed.

"The lake of fire" is what remains....this is not "hell" either. It is a place where things and souls are destroyed. (Matthew 10:28)


The original languages of the Bible will argue with you....
Which "hell" are you talking about? "Hades"? "Gehenna" or the "lake of fire"?
All three words have different meanings....none of which correspond to Christendom's "hell".


There is no 2 Thessalonians 5....


Who is "we"? And what do you know?...and how do you know it?

It’s 2 Corinthians 5 that tells us exactly where we go.

The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.


2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME in the body, we are absent from the Lord:


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM the BODY, , and to be PRESENT with the Lord.


Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


In 1st or 2nd Kings, Elijah raises a dead boy. He stretched his body over the dead child and prayed three times for the dead child’s soul to come BACK into the child’s body. When the soul RETURNED to the body, the dead child came back to life.


The dead child’s soul wasn’t hanging around with the child’s body - the soul had LEFT and had to RETURN for the child to live again.


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come into him again.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN, and he revived.

You think hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, and when when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow down.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


Hell is a place that Jesus said was originally created for satan and his fallen angels. And the damned are cast into that same place of everlasting fire.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Angels are spirits with no bodies to sleep in the dirt.

Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


And the angels in hell aren’t sleeping either. They are conscious, which is why they are chained to prevent their escape.


Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Maranatha

 

[quietthinker]

Well…I used to be mad at God but I loved Jesus. I told Jesus I would talk to Him but didn’t want to talk to God.
Imagine my surprise when I found out Jesus was God!

That's not an uncommon view sbg. It is born from the assumption that God requires and needs appeasing and Jesus is the one who did the appeasing by offering his blood to God. I betcha it sounds familiar. This view is a hangover from pagan foundations.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is interesting.....what made you mad at God but not at Jesus?

Well, I had read the gospels and I instantly loved Jesus. But I was mad at God for letting Him be so horribly murdered. I cried and cried and told Jesus I would talk to Him but that I was mad at God and thought He could have found a better way. When I got to John, I saw that Jesus WAS God!

 

[amadeus]

This is a good example of problems with the KJV and archaic English that has changed a lot since 1611, because the verse actually says the opposite, as many modern English bibles show:

...

Universalism is untrue.

Well I have never been a universalist so I fail to see your point.

Try this one:

"Aber so sind die Gottlosen nicht, sondern wie Spreu, die der Wind verstreut.
Darum bleiben die Gottlosen nicht im Gericht noch die Sünder in der Gemeinde der Gerechten. Psalm 1:4-5 [Martin Luther]

Or this one...

"Nicht so die Gottlosen; sondern sie sind wie Spreu, die der Wind verweht.
Darum bestehen Gottlose nicht im Gericht, noch Sünder in der Gemeinde der Gerechten." Psalm 1:4-5 [Elberfelder]

 

[Curtis]

That's not an uncommon view sbg. It is born from the assumption that God requires and needs appeasing and Jesus is the one who did the appeasing by offering his blood to God. I betcha it sounds familiar. This view is a hangover from pagan foundations.

And just what do you think animal sacrifices in the law of Moses foreshadowed?

 

[Curtis]

Well I have never been a universalist so I fail to see your point.

Try this one:

"Aber so sind die Gottlosen nicht, sondern wie Spreu, die der Wind verstreut.
Darum bleiben die Gottlosen nicht im Gericht noch die Sünder in der Gemeinde der Gerechten. Psalm 1:4-5 [Martin Luther]

Or this one...

"Nicht so die Gottlosen; sondern sie sind wie Spreu, die der Wind verweht.
Darum bestehen Gottlose nicht im Gericht, noch Sünder in der Gemeinde der Gerechten." Psalm 1:4-5 [Elberfelder]

The psalms were written in Hebrew, not German.

But in English we have these people called scholars to interpret the original languages of henbrew and Greek and show us the correct interpretation in 21st century English, instead of archaic 1600s Elizabethan English translations that have verses such as “ye are not straitened in us, ye are straitened in your own bowels”.

And hint: straitened is not straightened.

 

[Curtis]

"Hell" in this instance is "hades" which is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "sheol".....the common grave of all mankind.
Death and hades are thrown into "the lake of fire" to be utterly destroyed after hades is emptied of all the dead. (Revelation 20:13, 14) How can you throw immaterial things into a fiery lake?
All deceased mankind are "the contents of "hades"....all will be resurrected...good and bad. (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15)

Those in "gehenna" will never be resurrected and will 'sleep' in eternal death...not ever to be remembered....it will be as if they never existed.

"The lake of fire" is what remains....this is not "hell" either. It is a place where things and souls are destroyed. (Matthew 10:28)


The original languages of the Bible will argue with you....
Which "hell" are you talking about? "Hades"? "Gehenna" or the "lake of fire"?
All three words have different meanings....none of which correspond to Christendom's "hell".


There is no 2 Thessalonians 5....


Who is "we"? And what do you know?...and how do you know it?

Try again:

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Hell is a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, so that every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell:


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


Hell is a place that Jesus said was originally created for satan and his fallen angels. And the damned are cast into that same place of everlasting fire.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


And the angels in hell aren’t sleeping either. They are conscious, which is why they are chained to prevent their escape.


Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Soul sleep dogma claims that the soul and body take a dirt nap at physical death, meaning the soul is buried in the ground along with the body, thus it SLEEPS there.


Not true. In 1 Kings, Elijah prayed three times for a dead boys SOUL to come back into his body. When his SOUL returned to his body again, the dead child was alive again. His soul wasn’t asleep with his dead body, it had LEFT and had to return.


1Ki 17:20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come INTO HIM AGAIN.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN and he revived.

1Ki 17:23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son LIVETH.


When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as her SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem)

Soul sleep is bogus theology.

 

[quietthinker]

And just what do you think animal sacrifices in the law of Moses foreshadowed?

The innocent submitting even to death.

 

[n2thelight]

Heaven

Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body. We can call it the process of thought, which is the intellect of the mind, or soul. When one is brain dead, there is no electrical impulse within the brain, and mankind is considered dead, even though the physical body may still be pumping blood. Life support systems are generally discontinued in most cases.

When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs for this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

 

[Aunty Jane]

It’s 2 Corinthians 5 that tells us exactly where we go.

The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM the BODY, , and to be PRESENT with the Lord.

Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

This is speaking of the "elect" "the saints" or "chosen ones"......who are these, and what is their role in heaven?
Not all Christians are of the "elect", as they pray for us.....

Colossians 1:1-4...opens with the words...."Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, and Timothy our brother, 2 to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·losʹsae:. . . .
"We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones."

So we can see here the "holy ones" are mentioned separately to the "faithful brothers in union with Christ".....so only some Christians are chosen to be "saints" or "holy ones"....but not all.

It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

This is speaking about those 'chosen' to rule with Christ in heaven, which all of the apostles were, forming the very foundations of God's heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 21:14) The ones chosen by God for positions in the Kingdom have clearly defined roles as stated in Revelation 20:6...
"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years."

As "kings" and "priests" they have no subjects in heaven because God's kingdom is to rule over "mankind" on the earth....and these ones are to be resurrected "first", before the general resurrection takes place....these subjects will be resurrected later. (John 5:28-29)

Revelation 21:2-4...
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Can you see what God's Kingdom will accomplish? It will cleanse this earth of all wickedness and the things that cause us pain and suffering....it will take us back to the conditions God created for the first humans.....paradise...with no ageing, sickness or death.....
Isn't that something to look forward to? God’s original purpose for the earth is restored. (Isaiah 55:11)

In 1st or 2nd Kings, Elijah raises a dead boy. He stretched his body over the dead child and prayed three times for the dead child’s soul to come BACK into the child’s body. When the soul RETURNED to the body, the dead child came back to life.

The dead child’s soul wasn’t hanging around with the child’s body - the soul had LEFT and had to RETURN for the child to live again.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come into him again.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN, and he revived.

Again, you need to clarify what the Hebrew word "soul" actually means.....it never means a disembodied spirit. The word "soul", in contrast to the way that the term is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both (Hebrew) neʹphesh and (Greek) psy·kheʹ, are used in connection with earthly creatures, and refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.
These original-language words have most often been rendered according to their meaning in each context, using them in place of such terms as “life,” “creature,” “person,” “one’s whole being,” or simply as a personal pronoun (for example, “I” for “my soul”).

So saying that a person's "soul" was returned to them, is the same as saying 'their "life" was returned to them. The human soul is mortal. (Ezekiel 18:4)...just like the animals. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

 

[Aunty Jane]

You think hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, and when when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow down.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Those "under the earth" are those resurrected from their graves. No one exists alive "under the earth". Jesus never spoke of such a place. It is fictional.

Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

That is a fictitious place created by pagan imaginations, not scripture. ”Sheol or hades” is “below” because that is where most of the dead end up...six feet under....
There is no conscious part of man that survives death. Jesus never taught about such a place.
There is no immortal soul that goes anywhere. All the dead are resurrected from the same place. (John 5:28-29)

Hell is a place that Jesus said was originally created for satan and his fallen angels. And the damned are cast into that same place of everlasting fire.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This is the “lake of fire” which is not “Hell” either. This refers to Gehenna...a place where things and souls are “destroyed” not tortured. (Matthew 10:28)

Angels are spirits with no bodies to sleep in the dirt.

Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.

There is confusion apparently between the diverse meanings of the word “spirit”. Context determines how it is translated and understood.

The Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek word pneuʹma, often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired expressions originating from an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s holy spirit.
This confusion is created by bad translation of the scriptures from their original languages.

And the angels in hell aren’t sleeping either. They are conscious, which is why they are chained to prevent their escape.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

This is another "hell" that is mistranslated...this one is actually "tartarus".....and its not "hell" either.
This word is found only once in the Greek scriptures.
It is described as a prison-like state involving darkness and holding the demons in reserve for judgment. They are still wreaking havoc on this earth because this is where they are confined during the time of the end. God has evicted them from heaven so they have nowhere else to go.....until Jesus locks them away in an abyss for 1,000 years. (Revelation 12:7-9; Revelation 20:1-3) No one knows what the abyss is, but it is a state of confinement like a prison for spirit beings. The only humans who become spirits are those whom Christ takes into his Kingdom.

Talk about getting all your words and terminologies all muddled up....

 

[charity]

No offense taken. I tend to get passionate about my belief in totally guilty of it. Because I desire for the revelation to be as it is. With people on the outside and people on the inside all in spiritual bodies given by God. And desire to have to love for the lost and hope to help them after this life by the grace of God and by the strength of Christ.

I don’t know you personally view the after life with God or @stunnedbygrace or @quietthinker

We all each my have a difference in what the looks like and it comes from our subjective standpoints of looking at scripture. I’m always pointing to revelation cause it’s what Jesus presents to us through the visions John has.

Hello @MatthewG,

We know that ultimately there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth, 'wherein dwelleth righteousness' (2 Peter 3:13): in which God will be all-in-all (1 Corinthians 15:28). Before that we know that Christ must reign until all enemies have been placed beneath His feet (1 Corinthians 15:25).

* The Church which is the Body of Christ will have it's part to play, 'far above all,' 'in heavenly places' (Ephesians 1:3, Ephesians 2:6), which is the sphere in which it's blessings are to be enjoyed 'in Christ Jesus': for already it is to the inhabitants of that sphere (to it's 'principalities and powers') that it's witness is directed:-

'Unto me, (Paul) who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given,
that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places
might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:8-11)

* There will be three spheres of blessing, and each calling will have it's place within those spheres :-

'The Earth' - ('the Kingdom') - [Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10]
'The Heavenly City' - ('the Bride') - [Galatians 4:26]
'Far above all heavens', - ('the Body') - [Ephesians 1:3]

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grailhunter]

Be good and do good

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing your prospective and understanding, Charity. Interesting insights.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The contents of hell are.

Hell is not the grave.

Actually Curtis it is, in the KJV of the Bible, hell is translated from Sheol an equal number as grave, 31x each as a matter of fact. What do you think hell is sir?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The psalms were written in Hebrew, not German.

But in English we have these people called scholars to interpret the original languages of henbrew and Greek and show us the correct interpretation in 21st century English, instead of archaic 1600s Elizabethan English translations that have verses such as “ye are not straitened in us, ye are straitened in your own bowels”.

And hint: straitened is not straightened.

oh my gosh…that’s the problem then? It’s Henbrew they should be reading, not Hebrew!!

 

[Brakelite]

Hello backlit,

Im just a man; who can’t really force anyone to believe anything. What we believe comes from our heart friend. So it is true that you have your own beliefs that you believe that very well may be different from another. What matters at the end of the day? The truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, that was one reason made the decision to teach verse by verse the book of Mark to get back to the milk that was needed in life; sometimes I can become weak in faith but I’m still trusting and holding on to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Fortunately we are not judged according to our understanding of doctrine. However, we need to come to terms with the fact that false doctrine can directly affect the way we view God, which can impact on our faith and lead us into beliefs whereby we miss out on certain truths that help us to identify real time religious practises that reflect deception causing us to apostatize. There are definite truths associated with the gospel in the last days that define whether we truly know the God in whom we claim to have faith. The mark of the beast and the seal of God are the choices we all need to make in the midst of widespread deception and apostasy. Truth matters.

 

[amadeus]

The psalms were written in Hebrew, not German.

Which language do you read your Bible in...? I gave you a German translation completed by Martin Luther close to the time of the KJV and a modern German translation from the 20th Century. Why is my comparison different than yours for someone who reads his Bible in German? [older and newer?]

I do read my Bible regularly in German, Spanish and English. I do not read Hebrew but make use of the translations provided into the languages I do understand well as lexicons and/or dictionaries when there is a need. I always talk to God when I am reading my Bible [any language or version] and allow Him time to respond... for without the Holy Spirit, how could any of us understand anything at all that He was saying?

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14:26

But in English we have these people called scholars to interpret the original languages of henbrew and Greek and show us the correct interpretation in 21st century English, instead of archaic 1600s Elizabethan English translations that have verses such as “ye are not straitened in us, ye are straitened in your own bowels”.

And hint: straitened is not straightened.

Is that sarcasm? If so to what end are you using it?

Did you miss my point?

Then again, why should we trust the more modern English translators more than those who translated the KJV? Are they or were they not also fallible men as we are? Should not our first trust always be in the Holy Spirit leading us?

As I learned Spanish and German, I also have learned a fair amount about English as it is and as it was. When people spoke English on a regular basis similar to the way the KJV versions translates the Bible, were they not able to understand each other? Did they never communicate? Do you presume that you alone are able to understand a Bible translated into English, old English or modern English?

God has apparently blessed you with some abilities, but the abilities we have been given are hardly the most important thing in our walk with God, are they? Is not God who gave us the abilities more concerned with what we do with however much or little we have been given?

"Much is given... much is required" [see Luke 12:48 in any translation]

Is it our job to put others down or to teach them when they need and desire that one help them as did the Ethiopian eunuch? God sent him a helper and helped him. Philip was not sent to tell the eunuch that he, Philip, knew all of the answers... but to help. Winning a theology contest helps whom?

Give God the glory!

 

[Brakelite]

Well…I used to be mad at God but I loved Jesus. I told Jesus I would talk to Him but didn’t want to talk to God.
Imagine my surprise when I found out Jesus was God!

Oh boy. I don't think you'd be on your own there. The devil has spent the last 6000 years misrepresenting God to mankind. He knew before creation who God was, and what He was like. But didn't know Him well enough, and has since that time tried to played on people's gaps in their knowledge to insert his own lies. But in the end all the lies and misconceptions and mischaracterisations will be exposed and the God of the OT will be revealed and validated by the whole universe as the same God of love Jesus portrayed.