Where do people go when they die?

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stunnedbygrace

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Yes, our friend @Episkopos amplified that a bit, didn't he? While the way he put it was new to me, I still don't pursue directly more knowledge about it. When I reading the scripture or simply talking with God sometimes I see something though.

By keeping always first what Jesus told us to put first, how much will our lack of knowledge of all the details matter?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

oh boy, yeah! I still remember that day in a forum where I was stressed out over a verse and I first met him. He began to clear up a lot of my confusion. He also gave me such hope that God makes a place for the righteous and taught me the difference between righteousness and holiness. To this day, whenever I get into a new muddle, I stop and ask myself, is this verse talking about righteousness or holiness?
It’s the same way I get into a muddle with prophecy and say, wait, is this verse talking about pretrib, during trib, millennium, or post millennium?

It helps to know how to divide it!
 

amadeus

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Yes you are right. I’m open; however when it comes to this specific belief; it is extremely personal to me. It’s something hidden deep within my heart. Though if I am wrong; I won’t question God; all I know it is faith in Jesus that has made right with God and my desire is to love all people. Faithful or faithless.
Remember what Jesus said about the "lowest room"!
Who God? Can not challenge Him you can find His will in the Bible which explains that He desire none to perish, and the he desires for people to come to the knowledge of the truth? If all shall confess Jesus is Lord how can one do that without the Holy Spirit? How can one do so in heaven if they are not a believer already? Does the unbeliever out in darkness come to know truth? How? Maybe by us who are bears of Christ light go out and at least try to help the ones in darkness…
We all have challenged God at times by our misunderstanding and/or our doubts about things. Elijah, Moses and Peter challenged God. Saul/Paul challenged God. God showed them a better Way to move beyond the challenges to always trust Him even when and if we cannot understand!
"Something hardly ever offered up" is perhaps true in many places and among many ministers of the God, but my old pastor [age 96] is not one of them. Since he first became my pastor back in 2007, Revelation 22 was place he frequently went.

Even now when I meet with him for Bible discussion and prayer each Wednesday morning, no matter where else in scripture we may be, it is not uncommon for him to go to Revelation 22 one more time. He is there almost as often as in I Corinthians 13.
Why would he bring this up?
He learned a long time ago that many times some very important messages from God are not heard by people who have heard them many times. They hear, but they do not hear! Sometimes repetition makes the difference.
You ever realize at funerals no one is going to hell, the person already went to God. Did they go to be destroyed? What purpose does that for the family even if the whole family is unbelievers.
Imagine hearing this a funeral service
We don’t know if they went to God or was destroyed by God. The person is dead and gone, mourn and remember the good times you had with them.
In my lifetime in numerous funerals attended it has commonly been that way. There have been a few exceptions.

One I remember where it was not that way, I attended with my wife, a graveside service. There was just the casket, the two of us and one gravedigger ready to cover it up when we were done. I spoke the only words spoken. I did not by my words put the lady absolutely at the side of God.
 
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MatthewG

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So when my first coming of a Christian was that hell was still going and people were going to be eternally punished and that God was to me not loving God. Wrestling around with that idea lead to reading the Bible and was shown a completely different side of God though the wrath of was going to be the symbol for the destruction of divorcement of the old covenant ways that were done in Jesus day even after resurrection He was going to return to Gather his bride and that all of what is said in revelation was going to happen. I believe that all of it for them in that generation and there would be no other destruction like it. Happening 70ad when , 1,100,000 million lives where destroyed in that day at the hands of the Romans which was foretold by Jesus that would happen in that generation.

so it makes sense now the wrath was the divorcement of the old to the the new where everything is done by the spirit and God working in individual lives and God calling all people to come to Christ.

The divorcement destruction was of all of the old material age worship and now you and me and all live in a new age of spiritual worship and service.

it was hard to accept Jesus Christ made me right with God by faith.

It was hard to understand Gods true love for all people.

It was hard to understand to difference of people and their doctrinal standpoints which is normally just handed down information from the past and people continue in hell fire brimstone preaching and not spiritual living preaching and allowing the context to be set in its context and expounded on if something could be learned cause not everything in there is for us today. The church ran then by the apostles was a tight ship. To make a pure bride for Christ to get.

No matter what anyone believes even if one try’s to consider whatever is written in scripture context is needed and not out of context wiill really be take in consideration because it’s only half of the information or only a quarter of a bigger picture that needs to be seen in the entirety not just bits and pieces.

No matter what you believe it’s always between you and God and it should be known that never to trust men or what they may think or say when it comes to these matters and seek them out for oneself if one desires to know.

There are some writing from Josephus about the destruction along with Titicus (I believe is a a book about a Roman who wrote about his times) along with Cassio Dio, and one or two more I can’t remember those they are secular accounts they are worth considering.

I live my life as a person is part of subjective Christianity and your relationship between you and God is. A personal one. Which is lived subjectively there are some things in the Bible we just don’t live by today, compared to them then.
 

Desire Of All Nations

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The "Christian" idea that going to Heaven is the Christian's reward is based on misquoting passages and overlooking other passages like Jhn 3:13(Christ clearly said no human being other than Himself was going there), Daniel's prophecy in Dan. 7 that the saints of God will rule this earth, Christ's own statement in Matt. 5:5(He quotes David in Psa. 37 where it says in 2 passages that God's people will inherit the earth), and Rev. 1, 2, 3, 5, and 20 where it says Christians will rule this world with Christ. The idea that Christians will go to Heaven after they die is based on Gnostic dualism and not the Bible.

While i understand the fact that millions faithfully subscribe to this belief as orthodox, that doesn't automatically make it true. In fact, it means that more people should be investigating this belief. Daniel was told by the angel in chapter 12 of his book that he will rise to his inheritance. And since Daniel has to be resurrected to receive his inheritance, common sense says going to Heaven wasn't his reward. If it was, the angel would've been like "i'll see you in Heaven when you die".
 

MatthewG

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The "Christian" idea that going to Heaven is the Christian's reward is based on misquoting passages and overlooking other passages like Jhn 3:13(Christ clearly said no human being other than Himself was going there), Daniel's prophecy in Dan. 7 that the saints of God will rule this earth, Christ's own statement in Matt. 5:5(He quotes David in Psa. 37 where it says in 2 passages that God's people will inherit the earth), and Rev. 1, 2, 3, 5, and 20 where it says Christians will rule this world with Christ. The idea that Christians will go to Heaven after they die is based on Gnostic dualism and not the Bible.

While i understand the fact that millions faithfully subscribe to this belief as orthodox, that doesn't automatically make it true. In fact, it means that more people should be investigating this belief. Daniel was told by the angel in chapter 12 of his book that he will rise to his inheritance. And since Daniel has to be resurrected to receive his inheritance, common sense says going to Heaven wasn't his reward. If it was, the angel would've been like "i'll see you in Heaven when you die".

May I ask your denominational background or your the history of your faith ? Also where is l it that you will go when you die?
 

quietthinker

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“Jesus answered him, ‘I spake freely to the world, I did always teach in a synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews do always come together; and in secret I spake nothing; why me dost thou question? question those having heard what I spake to them; lo, these have known what I said.’

And he having said these things, one of the officers standing by did give Jesus a slap, saying, ‘Thus dost thou answer the chief priest?’ Jesus answered him, ‘If I spake ill, testify concerning the ill; and if well, why me dost thou smite?’

Annas then sent him bound to Caiaphas the chief priest. And Simon Peter was standing and warming himself, they said then to him, ‘Art thou also of his disciples?’ he denied, and said, ‘I am not.’

One of the servants of the chief priest, being kinsman of him whose ear Peter cut off, saith, ‘Did not I see thee in the garden with him?’ again, therefore, Peter denied, and immediately a cock crew.

They led, therefore, Jesus from Caiaphas to the praetorium, and it was early, and they themselves did not enter into the praetorium, that they might not be defiled, but that they might eat the passover; Pilate, therefore, went forth unto them, and said, ‘What accusation do ye bring against this man?’ they answered and said to him, ‘If he were not an evil doer, we had not delivered him to thee.’ Pilate, therefore, said to them, ‘Take ye him — ye — and according to your law judge him;’ the Jews, therefore, said to him, ‘It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;’ that the word of Jesus might be fulfilled which he said, signifying by what death he was about to die.

Pilate, therefore, entered into the praetorium again, and called Jesus, and said to him, ‘Thou art the King of the Jews?’ Jesus answered him, ‘From thyself dost thou say this? or did others say it to thee about me?’

Pilate answered, ‘Am I a Jew? thy nation, and the chief priests did deliver thee up to me; what didst thou?’

-> Jesus answered, ‘My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.’ <-

Pilate, therefore, said to him, ‘Art thou then a king?’

Jesus answered, ‘Thou dost say [it]; because a king I am, I for this have been born, and for this I have come to the world, that I may testify to the truth; every one who is of the truth, doth hear my voice.’

Pilate saith to him, ‘What is truth?’ and this having said, again he went forth unto the Jews, and saith to them, ‘I do find no fault in him; and ye have a custom that I shall release to you one in the passover; will ye, therefore, [that] I shall release to you the king of the Jews?’ therefore they all cried out again, saying, ‘Not this one — but Barabbas;’ and Barabbas was a robber.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:20-40‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


The kingdom of Christ is not of this world; and according to Jesus himself.


“There were not found who did turn back to give glory to God, except this alien;’ and he said to him, ‘Having risen, be going on, thy faith hath saved thee.’ And having been questioned by the Pharisees, when the reign of God doth come, he answered them, and said, ‘The reign of God doth not come with observation; nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.’”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:18-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

“For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await — the Lord Jesus Christ — who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

To me the kingdom of Christ is above, and the reign of God is within us by faith because of the spirit of God (Holy spirit) and the Spirit of Christ.

It’s seems that God reconciled the world unto himself through Jesus.

“And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, ‘Be ye reconciled to God;’ for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:18-21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

It seems because of what God has done for all the world; and Jesus paying for the sin of all of the world.

That God is not angry with the world so there is no reason to take it out of existence. The only thing that will happen is that individuals still die however people go on to be spiritually resurrected; unbelievers and believers alike going into a new kingdom that is above.


“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign — to the ages of the ages. And he said to me, ‘These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly: Lo, I come quickly; happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.’ And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:1-15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

It seems unbelievers are outside of the kingdom where believers are found inside of the kingdom.

There will be no end to earth except our understanding that all of will die pass on going on the the dimension of where God resides either near to him or not so near to him depending on the person if they accepted faith, or rejected faith.
Where do people go when they die?
They don't go anywhere Matthew. They wait or as the scripture calls it 'sleep' till the resurrection....both good and bad.
 

MatthewG

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Where do people go when they die?
They don't go anywhere Matthew. They wait or as the scripture calls it 'sleep' till the resurrection....both good and bad.

Hello @quietthinker,

Thank you for sharing your own personal view.

If that is something you believe I won’t argue with you. That is between you and God and what you believe the scripture indicate. You are entitled to your own opinion and your own way of believing. No one can live someone else’s faith for them and as believers we are all responsible for ourselves and the things that one may believe. If people desire to look and seek for God in spirit and in truth they are able to grab a Bible and to seek for the truth to be able to see where do people go when they die.

I won’t argue with anyone at least try not to argue with anyone over their own beliefs that they believe by faith, as have already stated my own position many times people can take it or leave it.

What is important is that we all love each other and respect each other’s own view and perspectives, in the spirit of Christ who lives with-in each one of us.

With love in Christ,
Matthew G
 

Aunty Jane

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I believe that it is good to go back to the beginning and start from there......we can learn so much just from the events that took place in the garden of Eden....@MatthewG

First question....did God make mortal humans to die?.....IOW, were humans created to be immortal?
The answer is NO!
But did you know that humans, although created as mortals (which means that they can die) were not confronted with an impending death from any natural cause in Eden. In fact there was a means provided in the garden for humans to "live forever" in their mortal bodies.....called "the tree of life", every fruit of the garden would provide delicious nourishment to the humans, and there was no restriction on also partaking of the tree of life.
The only restriction was on "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".....partaking of that tree...the only one claimed by God as his own, carried the death penalty. So if humans had not broken God's law, would they have died? NO! There were no natural causes of death....there was to be no aging, no sickness, no deformities and no death....meaning no grieving.

It appears that God's first purpose for human kind was "everlasting life" right here on earth. But it was still 'mortal' life because immortality is impossible in the flesh. We live by relying on external things to keep us alive...air, food, water etc., all lovingly provided in abundance by our Creator. The tree of life would have allowed us to keep living forever.

It is important to know the difference between mortality and immortality because one requires a body that is not reliant on external things to continue living. Having said that, it is important to also note that angels live in the spirit realm and have spirit bodies....but they are not immortal either. Being immortal means that they cannot die (by any means) and yet satan and his hordes are eventually consigned to "the lake of fire"...not a place of fiery torment, but a place of eternal destruction.

"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna." (Matthew 10:28) What goes into "Gehenna".....is "destroyed" not tormented.....it never comes out. It is annihilated.

Jesus used "Gehenna" as a place where the incorrigibly wicked are to go.....the Pharisees were consigned there. (Matthew 23:33) But it was a literal place that he spoke of, well known to the Jews and they understood his reference as symbolizing a place from which there was no resurrection.

Jerusalem's garbage dump was "gehenna" (the Valley of Hinnom) where the carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown for disposal. Fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) and what the flames missed, the maggots finished off. It was an ignominious end for anyone. In Jewish belief, if one did not have a burial place with one's name and family lineage inscribed, then that person was considered to be not worthy of a resurrection....they would not be remembered by God at all.

For Jews, there was no going to heaven....the resurrection was just as it was performed in the first century...a return to this life, and to the arms of overjoyed loved ones. Jesus' most famous resurrection is that of his friend Lazarus. Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was? Heaven? NO!
John 11:11-15....
"After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice for your sake that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
Jesus said that Lazarus was "sleeping", he had not gone anywhere. He was awakened after four days in his tomb and made no comment about where he had been because there is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Do you worry about people when they are peacefully sleeping? No need.

So where did the notion of an immortal soul come from? Certainly not from God because he told Adam, not that he would go to heaven or hell, but that he would simply die and return to the dust of the earth, from which he was made. (Genesis 3:19) God's comments in verses 22-24 are also interesting...
"God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life."

Now sinful, the humans were no longer able to access the "tree of life"....and so they eventually died, as God said they would.
Rather than living on in some spiritual form however, the Bible says that the dead "sleep" until the resurrection....like Lazarus.

Could Adam have avoided death for himself and his children....? The answer is YES!
Death feels wrong because it wasn't ever supposed to happen. Under the rulership of God's Kingdom, death will be abolished forever and all will return to God's original purpose for mankind on this earth. What God starts...he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11) No rebels will ever defeat his purpose.
 

MatthewG

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I believe that it is good to go back to the beginning and start from there......we can learn so much just from the events that took place in the garden of Eden....@MatthewG

First question....did God make mortal humans to die?.....IOW, were humans created to be immortal?
The answer is NO!
But did you know that humans, although created as mortals (which means that they can die) were not confronted with an impending death from any natural cause in Eden. In fact there was a means provided in the garden for humans to "live forever" in their mortal bodies.....called "the tree of life", every fruit of the garden would provide delicious nourishment to the humans, and there was no restriction on also partaking of the tree of life.
The only restriction was on "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".....partaking of that tree...the only one claimed by God as his own, carried the death penalty. So if humans had not broken God's law, would they have died? NO! There were no natural causes of death....there was to be no aging, no sickness, no deformities and no death....meaning no grieving.

It appears that God's first purpose for human kind was "everlasting life" right here on earth. But it was still 'mortal' life because immortality is impossible in the flesh. We live by relying on external things to keep us alive...air, food, water etc., all lovingly provided in abundance by our Creator. The tree of life would have allowed us to keep living forever.

It is important to know the difference between mortality and immortality because one requires a body that is not reliant on external things to continue living. Having said that, it is important to also note that angels live in the spirit realm and have spirit bodies....but they are not immortal either. Being immortal means that they cannot die (by any means) and yet satan and his hordes are eventually consigned to "the lake of fire"...not a place of fiery torment, but a place of eternal destruction.

"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna." (Matthew 10:28) What goes into "Gehenna".....is "destroyed" not tormented.....it never comes out. It is annihilated.

Jesus used "Gehenna" as a place where the incorrigibly wicked are to go.....the Pharisees were consigned there. (Matthew 23:33) But it was a literal place that he spoke of, well known to the Jews and they understood his reference as symbolizing a place from which there was no resurrection.

Jerusalem's garbage dump was "gehenna" (the Valley of Hinnom) where the carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were thrown for disposal. Fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) and what the flames missed, the maggots finished off. It was an ignominious end for anyone. In Jewish belief, if one did not have a burial place with one's name and family lineage inscribed, then that person was considered to be not worthy of a resurrection....they would not be remembered by God at all.

For Jews, there was no going to heaven....the resurrection was just as it was performed in the first century...a return to this life, and to the arms of overjoyed loved ones. Jesus' most famous resurrection is that of his friend Lazarus. Where did Jesus say that Lazarus was? Heaven? NO!
John 11:11-15....
"After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice for your sake that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
Jesus said that Lazarus was "sleeping", he had not gone anywhere. He was awakened after four days in his tomb and made no comment about where he had been because there is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Do you worry about people when they are peacefully sleeping? No need.

So where did the notion of an immortal soul come from? Certainly not from God because he told Adam, not that he would go to heaven or hell, but that he would simply die and return to the dust of the earth, from which he was made. (Genesis 3:19) God's comments in verses 22-24 are also interesting...
"God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life."

Now sinful, the humans were no longer able to access the "tree of life"....and so they eventually died, as God said they would.
Rather than living on in some spiritual form however, the Bible says that the dead "sleep" until the resurrection....like Lazarus.

Could Adam have avoided death for himself and his children....? The answer is YES!
Death feels wrong because it wasn't ever supposed to happen. Under the rulership of God's Kingdom, death will be abolished forever and all will return to God's original purpose for mankind on this earth. What God starts...he finishes. (Isaiah 55:11) No rebels will ever defeat his purpose.

Hello Aunty Jane,

Okay. You gave some good information here. However my question still is; what is Gods will? Also why does the scripture say that all will bow in heaven, earth, and under the earth claiming Jesus is Lord?

Again it seems it’s all subjective. Gehenna is also a place where pagans would make human sacrifices to their false gods from what was taught.

Anyway, thank you for you post, and your perspective from going to the beginning and about half way through to Jesus mention of Gehenna.

With love,
Matthew G.

“But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.”
‭‭I Timothy‬ ‭4:1-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
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ThePuffyBlob

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based on own research years ago
the spirit go back to who gave it to God
while the soul can be found somewhere in heaven and the souls of the wicked are locked up somewhere in heaven and there's that rich man and the beggar story
not sure if it is immediate because there's nothing as such seen
i have forgotten the verses but as far as i can remember that's how it is
 

MatthewG

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based on own research years ago
the spirit go back to who gave it to God
while the soul can be found somewhere in heaven and the souls of the wicked are locked up somewhere in heaven
not sure if it is immediate because there's nothing as such seen
i have forgotten the verses but as far as i can remember that's how it is

Hello @stredaleve really radical eye opening post, thank you.
 

Triumph1300

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I did not read all posts on this thread, only just glanced through them.
Lots of confusion.
And wild speculations.


It's so simple:

2 Corinthians 5:8
New King James Version

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

We will never die.
 
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BarneyFife

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I have never seriously considered killing myself, but when I have been alone with little or no encouragement from people I have hoped that God would bring it all to an end for me here allowing me to die rather than continue as I was.

I have now a very good marriage, but when my wife was going through some her worst illnesses I was effectively all alone without even her to lean on... She has always been there for me except when she was so very sick and sometimes close to physical death.

God kept me in those hard times even though I was much farther away from Him than I needed to be and at the time failed to really appreciate Him. God, however, understood my weakness and kept me in any case because, for one reason anyway, He knew that He had more for me to do...

Death comes to us all... but in God's time, not our own:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die... " Ecc 3:1-2

Consider how low Job had sunk here:

"After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
And Job spake, and said,
Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it." Job 3:1-5


But, give God the glory, because He is here and He is Light even when we cannot seem to see a thing!
Wonderful testimony, John. :)
 

MatthewG

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I have never seriously considered killing myself, but when I have been alone with little or no encouragement from people I have hoped that God would bring it all to an end for me here allowing me to die rather than continue as I was.

I have now a very good marriage, but when my wife was going through some her worst illnesses I was effectively all alone without even her to lean on... She has always been there for me except when she was so very sick and sometimes close to physical death.

God kept me in those hard times even though I was much farther away from Him than I needed to be and at the time failed to really appreciate Him. God, however, understood my weakness and kept me in any case because, for one reason anyway, He knew that He had more for me to do...

Death comes to us all... but in God's time, not our own:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die... " Ecc 3:1-2

Consider how low Job had sunk here:

"After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
And Job spake, and said,
Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it." Job 3:1-5


But, give God the glory, because He is here and He is Light even when we cannot seem to see a thing!

@BarnyFife thank you for being this to my attention.

@amadeus I clicked like on this post but did not even read it. Thank you for sharing and your encouragement to keep trust God, through it all.

Today was going through the God is verses, and would like to share with you this one.


“And in that day you will say: “O Lord, I will praise You; Though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me. Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; ‘For Yah, the Lord, is my strength and song; He also has become my salvation.’ ” Therefore with joy you will draw water From the wells of salvation. And in that day you will say: “Praise the Lord, call upon His name; Declare His deeds among the peoples, Make mention that His name is exalted. Sing to the Lord, For He has done excellent things; This is known in all the earth. Cry out and shout, O inhabitant of Zion, For great is the Holy One of Israel in your midst!””
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭12:1-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Much love to all of everyone of you here. Be safe and keep praying and holding on to the Lord Jesus my brothers and sisters.
 
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Aunty Jane

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You gave some good information here. However my question still is; what is Gods will? Also why does the scripture say that all will bow in heaven, earth, and under the earth claiming Jesus is Lord?
Matthew 7:21-23 tells us that those NOT doing the will of God will be completely rejected by Jesus when he comes as judge. He says that he "never knew" these ones who claim him as their "Lord". So what are they NOT doing that Jesus says they must?

What is God's will for these last days? What did Jesus tell his disciples that was necessary after his departure?
Matthew 28:19-20...
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

This important commission was given to all Christians to take the "good news of the Kingdom" to people in "all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations", before God brings down the final curtain on this wicked world. (Matthew 24:14) Have the churches done this? How many of Christendom's churches go out to their neighbors to tell them about the Kingdom? (Matthew 10:11-14) It was a command, not an option.
They were to teach them "all the things" that he commanded, and yet the churches do not teach most of them. They are to baptize them, not as infants, but as those mature enough to make such an important decision for themselves. There was no proxy arrangement.

Gehenna is also a place where pagans would make human sacrifices to their false gods from what was taught.
The Valley of Hinnom was not just used by the pagans, but also by apostate Israelites to sacrifice their children in the fire to the false god Molech. (2 Chronicles 28:3; Jeremiah 7:31) God put a stop to that and commanded the King to turn the valley into a garbage tip.

“But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Every knee bowing is to God as this is a quotation from Isaiah 45:23.... we will all give an accounting to God through his Christ who is his appointed judge.

“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Here is that scripture again from the NASB...
"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

What do you see that is different in the wording here? Read the words carefully and tell me what you think they mean....

I would like to discuss this scripture with you at some time if I may.....
 
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