Would the US government allow anyone to interpret the US constitution?

[justbyfaith]

(wherein the true definition of "eternal" will surely not be discussed, and will most likely even be avoided at all costs )

It's discussed.

 

[bbyrd009]

It's discussed.

well cool :)

If you do not trust in Jesus to get you into heaven, you will not make it into heaven.

Trust = faith.

So, if the faith isn't there, salvation is also not there.

Of course it is the object of your faith that saves you.

But without faith in that object, you do not have access to the salvation that the object provides.

Scripture: Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2:8-9.

but with an opening like this, youll hopefully forgive me if im skeptible

i hope Death, More Abundantly works out for you though ok

 

[bbyrd009]

What if Jesus came to you in-person and said he is Catholic. Would you convert if you're not Catholic?

Just curious...

Just a simple yes or no

so, back at you, what if Yah Himself came down and told you that there was no other High Priest than Christ, would you give up the Roman Catholic faith?

 

[Marymog]

You're leaving out an essential element here. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide believers into all truth.

Simply not true. He told the Apostles that and ONLY the Apostles that. That is what happened at the Council of Jerusalem; they were guided by the Holy Spirit into the Truth of what was binding on ALL Christians were to believe/practice!! Recognize the word BINDING??? Jesus gave that authority to Peter and then all The Apostles in Matthew 18.

If you theory were true that means that ALL of us have the truth and we can all hold our own Council of Jerusalem and make what we believe binding on everyone else. Your theory is not logical, does not match up with Scripture or Christian history.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Simply not true. He told the Apostles that and ONLY the Apostles that. That is what happened at the Council of Jerusalem; they were guided by the Holy Spirit into the Truth of what was binding on ALL Christians were to believe/practice!! Recognize the word BINDING??? Jesus gave that authority to Peter and then all The Apostles in Matthew 18.

If you theory were true that means that ALL of us have the truth and we can all hold our own Council of Jerusalem and make what we believe binding on everyone else. Your theory is not logical, does not match up with Scripture or Christian history.

Well, Proud Mary, the Holy Spirt was sent to indwell ALL believers. :)

This is how we live the Christian life--walking by the Spirit, as Paul talks about in Romans 8 and Galatians 3.... We begin the Christian life by the Spirit (by grace through faith in Jesus Christ), and we live the Christian life by the Spirit. We know truth from error because the Spirit guides us into all truth. This is the ONLY way we can fully understand the truth....

And walking by the Spirit is how we avoid carrying out the desire of the flesh.

Gal 5:16-24--But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

PW

 

[Brakelite]

Would the US government allow anyone to interpret the US constitution without the court system guiding them? If anybody can determine law by their own interpretation, we would have complete chaos! This is what we have in non-catholic christian religions, interpretation chaos. This is why there are 50 thousand different protestant / non-denominational churhes that believe different things.

Some Thoughts:

• Jesus established a Church and gave the Church the keys to the kingdom of heaven, along with binding and losing authority - Matt 16
• Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus
• The early Church Fathers are Catholic
• Who owned back then and still owns the ancient write scripture scrolls? The Church did and still does; located at the Vatican in their massive library
• The Bible was not created until around the 4th century
  
• If there was no bible, who did the teaching? The Church that Jesus established did the teaching with the scripture scrolls
• Very few people could read back then
• There was no printing press; it took a year for a scholar writer to write out the Bible
• The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church using her binding and losing authority, which you believe in indirectly
  
• Thousand of writings were voted on; the Church used her binding and losing during several Catholic Councils including the Council of Rome to compile the Bible
• You follow an ex catholic priest via the protestant reform of the 1500s - a human being
• etc...

I just came across this thread. Read this first post... Or at least some of it... But couldn't continue to the end because of the strange contractictory stance you have with the very church you claim to be defending. It wasn't that long ago... Just one generation or so... That the Catholic Church saw the constitution as they greatest enemy to the Vatican and the most vile document ever to be penned by man. How do you explain that?

 

[Marymog]

Well, Proud Mary, the Holy Spirt was sent to indwell ALL believers. :)

Sooooooo the Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" at that time what they should say (Luke 12:12)???

The Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" everything and remind ALL believers of all that I (Jesus) told you" (John 14:26)????

The Holy Spirit will help ALL believers to speak whatever is given to them in that time (Mark 13:11)????

If your theory were true then which one of ALL The Reformers has He spoken too and given the truth? Since they ALL disagree with each other, and you disagree with ALL of them, either ALL of them were confused or you are confused or the Holy Spirit is confused.

Your theory is not logical!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Sooooooo the Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" at that time what they should say (Luke 12:12)???

The Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" everything and remind ALL believers of all that I (Jesus) told you" (John 14:26)????

The Holy Spirit will help ALL believers to speak whatever is given to them in that time (Mark 13:11)????

If your theory were true then which one of ALL The Reformers has He spoken too and given the truth? Since they ALL disagree with each other, and you disagree with ALL of them, either ALL of them were confused or you are confused or the Holy Spirit is confused.

Your theory is not logical!

My theory, lol?? Perhaps my theory is not logical to you, but it is biblical!

Paul didn't hear Jesus speak the words that His disciples heard Him speak, but don't you think the scriptures you quoted apply to Paul?? Was he not an apostle?? He called himself an apostle!

1 Cor 9:1-2--Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

Jesus asked the Father to sanctify His disciples in the truth. He said the Father's word is truth. But Jesus wasn't only asking these things for the disciples who followed Him during His earth ministry. He also asked for those of us who would believe in Him through their word.... That's us!! We didn't hear Jesus speak the words, but we can read them because His followers recorded His words through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

John 17:17-21--Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Edit: But isn't this what the Protestant Reformation was all about--that we underlings who are not in a position of "authority" within the church CAN GO TO GOD'S WORD OURSELVES??? And the Holy Spirit gives us understanding.

 

[Marymog]

My theory, lol?? Perhaps my theory is not logical to you, but it is biblical!

Paul didn't hear Jesus speak the words that His disciples heard Him speak, but don't you think the scriptures you quoted apply to Paul?? Was he not an apostle?? He called himself an apostle!

1 Cor 9:1-2--Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

Hi PW,

Yup, Paul was an Apostle and he was at the Council of Jerusalem where the decision that was binding upon all Christians were made sooooo how does that help your theory that ALL believers will be guided by the Spirit into the truth???

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi PW,

Yup, Paul was an Apostle and he was at the Council of Jerusalem where the decision that was binding upon all Christians were made sooooo how does that help your theory that ALL believers will be guided by the Spirit into the truth???

Because Jesus did not speak those words directly to Paul!!

I see that you ignored all of the scriptures I quoted even though I addressed yours. Hmm

You are welcome to believe everything your church leaders tell you. I will seek the truth in His Word through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Hopefully, I'll see you in heaven, and we can compare notes there, okay?? :)

 

[Brakelite]

If your theory were true then which one of ALL The Reformers has He spoken too and given the truth?

Which one? Not one. All of them. Each one a little at a time, some more than others, some different from others. But none of them everything at once, but all of them God led away from error and superstition , step by step. Some faltered. Some refused to learn more. They stagnated and fell away. But Protestantism grew. And it continues to grow today, and for those listening, they are growing further and further away from Rome. Each step away from Rome is a step toward truth.
Each step toward Rome is a step toward apotasy.

 

[Davy]

Would the US government allow anyone to interpret the US constitution without the court system guiding them? If anybody can determine law by their own interpretation, we would have complete chaos! This is what we have in non-catholic christian religions, interpretation chaos. This is why there are 50 thousand different protestant / non-denominational churhes that believe different things.

Some Thoughts:

• Jesus established a Church and gave the Church the keys to the kingdom of heaven, along with binding and losing authority - Matt 16
• Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus
• The early Church Fathers are Catholic
• Who owned back then and still owns the ancient write scripture scrolls? The Church did and still does; located at the Vatican in their massive library
• The Bible was not created until around the 4th century
  
• If there was no bible, who did the teaching? The Church that Jesus established did the teaching with the scripture scrolls
• Very few people could read back then
• There was no printing press; it took a year for a scholar writer to write out the Bible
• The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church using her binding and losing authority, which you believe in indirectly
  
• Thousand of writings were voted on; the Church used her binding and losing during several Catholic Councils including the Council of Rome to compile the Bible
• You follow an ex catholic priest via the protestant reform of the 1500s - a human being
• etc...

You just don't understand, not having stayed with The Scriptures.

Gen 49:10-11
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
KJV

Christ's enemies on earth today know this. How is it you do not know?

The reason why Judah still pretty much runs today's court systems in the Christian nations is because God ordained it. What we as Christians should gather from this is how God never intended to throw away His laws from governing His people, including Christian society. This is why Apostle Paul taught what he did in 1 Timothy 1 about the law, saying the law is good if used lawfully, for the law was not made for the righteous, but for the sinner and the ungodly.

Thus the tribe of Judah is to be the maintainer of God's laws among His people all the way up to the return of Jesus Christ (symbolically called here "Shiloh").

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No Catholic Church prior to the 6th century. So all the Catholic early Church Fathers never existed in your own mind. Poof, gone!

Can you tell me what religion to did these people follow: Justin Martyr, Ignatius of Antioch, Pope Linus, Pope Cletus, Clement of Rome, St. Orgin, St. Alexandria, Polycarp of Smyrna, St. Ambrose, St Jerome, Pope Gregory I, Tertullian, Pope Damasus I who helped compile the Bible -- Council of Rome - Wikipedia etc.........

I mean, believe what you want but don't lie or pretend you know history.

Many seek to be right, and as a result, they fail to seek the truth! God Bless

Wrong! The church has always been c(smallc) catholic since pentecost! But the roman Catholic Church which is what most people think of as Catholic, did not begin until Pope Julius! It was conceived by Constantine, found its dogma with Augustine, and finally gained full political religious control in the 6th century.

All of tehse folks were simple followers of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Church history shows therew was no one organized authority over the church until long after constantine.

1st and early 2nd century- church divided mostly along Jewish/Gentile lines.
2nd-3rd Centuries church tended to follow teachings of the Apostolic founder. Lot of hiding as the church endured intense persecution as well as teh invasion of Greek pagan philosophy.

Constantine officially ended all persecution and granted Christianity favored status. that was the beginning of the march towards the dark ages. Many influential people were baptized who were not Christian, but in name only to show favor with the politicians and people.

As the new found favored church began mass conversions, it compromised throughout the empire and allowed many pagans to keep practices from their faith! this is the time when many of the heretical practices of the ritualistic churches were born.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

As the new found favored church began mass conversions, it compromised throughout the empire and allowed many pagans to keep practices from their faith! this is the time when many of the heretical practices of the ritualistic churches were born.

Right, and don't forget that many who disagreed with Rome were disposed of as heretics.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Right, and don't forget that many who disagreed with Rome were disposed of as heretics.

Yeah, the Roman Church has the blood of untold number of followers of Jesus on its hands.

 

[Truth1945]

Wrong! The church has always been c(smallc) catholic since pentecost! But the roman Catholic Church which is what most people think of as Catholic, did not begin until Pope Julius! It was conceived by Constantine, found its dogma with Augustine, and finally gained full political religious control in the 6th century.

All of tehse folks were simple followers of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Church history shows therew was no one organized authority over the church until long after constantine.

1st and early 2nd century- church divided mostly along Jewish/Gentile lines.
2nd-3rd Centuries church tended to follow teachings of the Apostolic founder. Lot of hiding as the church endured intense persecution as well as teh invasion of Greek pagan philosophy.

Constantine officially ended all persecution and granted Christianity favored status. that was the beginning of the march towards the dark ages. Many influential people were baptized who were not Christian, but in name only to show favor with the politicians and people.

As the new found favored church began mass conversions, it compromised throughout the empire and allowed many pagans to keep practices from their faith! this is the time when many of the heretical practices of the ritualistic churches were born.

Please stop believing this fairytale and go research the early church fathers. God knows you're making stuff up so that you feel comfortable believe what you're believing. If you really care to know the truth based on historical FACTS, then see the link below. Truth is based on facts not what you make up in your mind:

Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Please stop believing this fairytale and go research the early church fathers. God knows you're making stuff up so that you feel comfortable believe what you're believing. If you really care to know the truth based on historical FACTS, then see the link below. Truth is based on facts not what you make up in your mind:

Constantine Has Been Beaten to Death

Well having a bible college degree, taking one year of early church history and having teh complete 30 volume works of teh early church Fathers, I know I am not making stuff up!

Constantine deserves to be beaten to death more and more. while it blessed the church in that it allowed it to come out of persecution and to solidify biblical doctrine, it did far more harm than good in that it merged the church with the empire over time and introduced into the church many pagan concepts and practices.

Sorry but that is simply history without revising it to put a happy face on what went on as a result of Constantine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Simply not true. He told the Apostles that and ONLY the Apostles that.

Jesus said that it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide those who have Him into all truth. Therefore the promise is to all those who have the Holy Spirit.

If you theory were true that means that ALL of us have the truth

All of us who have the Holy Spirit.

Sooooooo the Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" at that time what they should say (Luke 12:12)???

The Holy Spirit will teach "ALL believers" everything and remind ALL believers of all that I (Jesus) told you" (John 14:26)????

The Holy Spirit will help ALL believers to speak whatever is given to them in that time (Mark 13:11)????

Yes.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Well having a bible college degree, taking one year of early church history and having teh complete 30 volume works of teh early church Fathers, I know I am not making stuff up!

Constantine deserves to be beaten to death more and more. while it blessed the church in that it allowed it to come out of persecution and to solidify biblical doctrine, it did far more harm than good in that it merged the church with the empire over time and introduced into the church many pagan concepts and practices.

Sorry but that is simply history without revising it to put a happy face on what went on as a result of Constantine.

I've heard Chinese Christians ask the West not to pray for an end of persecution in China because it keeps them close to the Lord. It may be that persecution also convinces nonbelievers to believe in Jesus when they see His love in the face of so much hatred. I know this is counterintuitive to our western mindsets, but this is what some of them have said.

 

[Truth1945]

so, back at you, what if Yah Himself came down and told you that there was no other High Priest than Christ, would you give up the Roman Catholic faith?

Already answered that early:

Wow, not one yes for our non catholic christians! I put that out to see how harden your hearts are.

If Jesus came to me in-person and said the Catholic Church is not the Church, just follow your interpretations with the Holy Bible, I would 100% say hell yes!

Then I can set my own rules according to how I interpret the Bible. I wouldn't have to follow the list of mortal sins the Catholic Church has - just look at the list! No more Holy Days of Obligation! I can determine that I'm already saved by Jesus, no purgatory, no more rosaries, I don't even have to attend a church service, if I have church service - the music would be great and I can buy and drink a Starbucks at the service, no more kneeling all the freaking time, suffering can take a hike, don't have to listen to some Pope on a chair, no more confessing my sins to a Priest, I mean the list can go on and on...

Send me a message Lord so I can do what I want!!!