WWJD with LGBTQ?

[quietthinker]

What, THIS Jesus below? Yes. Are we forgetting that His wrath has yet to be revealed? Or at least the full brunt of it. We just haven't seen all of His "being" yet, fully revealed. I don't believe justice is darkness....it is just. So I think we should be careful we're not accusing Him of darkness when He chooses to be just. Remember too that HE has created the darkness. God has so graciously revealed His great mercy to us in His Son, that some souls might be saved and spared from His coming wrath, but He didn't HAVE to! Else mercy wouldn't be mercy. We shouldn't feel entitled, but grateful. Why do we think people NEED to be saved?

2Th 1:7-10

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Rom 1:16-22

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools


Act 17:30-31

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.



It says He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS….IE, JUSTLY, JUSTICE.....paying out the just wages of sin to those who have even refused His gracious offer of clemency. In the meantime the Lord is still willing to show His great unfathomable mercy to those who are willing to receive it, while there is still time.

As I said earlier, Jesus is the definitive revelation of the character of God.....and God's judgement is revealed in Jesus.....and what does Jesus reveal? isn't it that God loves even when he is being murdered?

Something to consider; We are called to come out of Babylon (Revelation 18:4), the system of self worship. Here is a snippet of an essay on a section of the book of Revelation I found interesting, maybe you will to?

Patterns in the book of Revelation by Ian Hartley
(Section 5: The Seven Battle Scenes—Cosmic Siege Revelation 12:1-14:20
The Third Interlude (14:1-13) Three Angels call for Repentance. Revelation 14:6-13)

'We may conclude that Babylon represents the religions of this world. These religions all offer salvation, redemption, nirvana or heaven as a reward for what you accomplish. In return Babylon offers the excitement and pleasure of an adulterous “salvation” relationship. In Isaiah 14 (3- 23) there is a funeral dirge for the king of Babylon who is a symbol of the dragon or the devil (Revelation 12:9). This evil being is the power behind the religions of this world which rule by deceit and murder (Jn 8:44). The second and third angels are warning against these methods. The Kingdom of God rules by the attraction of love and gentleness. One may be a Believer and yet still be ignorantly captive in Babylon.

“Come out” (cf 18:4) is taken from Isaiah (21:9; 48:20), Jeremiah (50:8; 51:6,45), and Zechariah (2:7). The prophets called God’s people to come out of Babylon because Babylon was to be totally destroyed (Isaiah 14:23; Jeremiah 25:12; 50:13; 51:29,37). Those who remained in Babylon would be destroyed with the city. Babylon, the great enemy of Israel, symbolizes the religions of this world (Jeremiah 50:2; 51:47), now holding God's people captive but to be forever destroyed in the future as literal Babylon was.

“wine” (from Jeremiah 25:15; 51:7)—persuasive teachings (cf Mark 2:22). Since wine intoxicates, these teachings of Babylon are false, delusive and appealing. Evolution, Capitalism, Reward and Punishment are part of this wine. Babylon teaches we were created to serve and worship God. Jesus taught us we were created so God could love and serve us. Babylon teaches forgiveness is earned by confession while the scriptures teach it is God’s gift (Matthew 9:2; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13-14; 3:13; 1 John 2:12). Babylon teaches we are saved mostly by grace but partially by our obedience. Babylon teaches that God needed Jesus’ blood in order to forgive us. Babylon teaches that God finally destroys evil by violence (Matthew 5:39).

“adulteries”—relationship without commitment unlike the covenant relation of marriage. Ezekiel (16) and Hosea (4 & 5) illustrate the meaning of spiritual adultery. It is the opposite of the relationship God offers of the commitment of his love for us. It also results in the doing of good works we were designed to do (Ephesians 2:10). This warning to come out of self-worship or false-worship is repeated in greater depth and heightened importance in chapters 17 and 18.'

 

[quietthinker]

What, THIS Jesus below? Yes. Are we forgetting that His wrath has yet to be revealed? Or at least the full brunt of it. We just haven't seen all of His "being" yet, fully revealed. I don't believe justice is darkness....it is just. So I think we should be careful we're not accusing Him of darkness when He chooses to be just. Remember too that HE has created the darkness. God has so graciously revealed His great mercy to us in His Son, that some souls might be saved and spared from His coming wrath, but He didn't HAVE to! Else mercy wouldn't be mercy. We shouldn't feel entitled, but grateful. Why do we think people NEED to be saved?

2Th 1:7-10

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Rom 1:16-22

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools


Act 17:30-31

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.



It says He will judge the world in RIGHTEOUSNESS….IE, JUSTLY, JUSTICE.....paying out the just wages of sin to those who have even refused His gracious offer of clemency. In the meantime the Lord is still willing to show His great unfathomable mercy to those who are willing to receive it, while there is still time.

Lizbeth, I would like to add this little bit to my previous reply,

Rev. 14:10 “His (God's) wrath”—receiving the consequences of life’s choices when we force away God’s protection (7:1-2). Results in ruin, famine and disaster (Isa 51:19).The end of the world is not punishment from God but reaping the consequences of our wicked choices (Romans 1:18, 24, 26, 28). Sin is deadly and destroys everyone who refuses God's salvation. At the Second Coming some are glad to see their Saviour (Isa 25:9), others are afraid of the universe's greatest lover! (Revelation 6:15- 17) The problem lies in the sinful mind of man which leads to his own destruction as repeatedly stated (Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:23) and demonstrated in the life of people such as King Saul and Judas (Matthew 27:5). The Second Coming is not vindictive (Hebrews 9:28).

 

[St. SteVen]

At the Second Coming some are glad to see their Saviour (Isa 25:9), others are afraid of the universe's greatest lover! (Revelation 6:15- 17)

I like the way that is stated.
Anyone who doesn't love God hasn't met Him yet.
Those who are afraid of God learned that fear from the church. (slander)

/

 

[Wick Stick]

We know that jealousy is a sin, to be dealt with accordingly.

Jealousy is a feeling, a negative one to be sure. But is it a sin? I generally think of sins as actions.

And we provide help for anger management issues.

Anger is a good corollary - another negative emotion. Paul said, "be angry, but don't sin." (Ephesians something or other)

I don't think of anger as a sin, either.

 

[Wick Stick]

The authorship of the synoptic gospels is questionable.
And mostly a duplication of an "original" version. Gospel Q?

And even if genuine, they were written 20-30 years after the actual events.
Imagine nothing being written about the 9/11 events in NY until 30 years after the events.
We would still have another 7 years to wait.

Maybe not, though. Stop me if you've heard this one before.

The church has built their dating of the crucifixion around (1) Jesus birth being in Herod's reign, and (2) Jesus being "about 30 years old" when he began his ministry. That latter point seems pretty vague and perhaps built on the Jewish tradition that one must be at least 30 to become a Rabbi.

At least one of the church fathers dated the crucifixion over a decade later (Irenaeus), putting Jesus in his mid-40's at the time of the crucifixion.

 

[BarneyFife]

Jealousy is a feeling, a negative one to be sure. But is it a sin? I generally think of sins as actions.

Anger is a good corollary - another negative emotion. Paul said, "be angry, but don't sin." (Ephesians something or other)

I don't think of anger as a sin, either.

Mat 5:21-28 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

.

 

[Lambano]

I generally think of sins as actions.

I got into it a couple of weeks ago with another Brother who thought that "not sinning" was easy. Think about "Thou shalt not covet", which is one of the Big 10. Coveting is completely a "thought-crime", a sin of the heart.

So, as Jesus pointed out in the scripture Barney just quoted, it's not just about actions; God looks at the heart.

 

[amigo de christo]

I got into it a couple of weeks ago with another Brother who thought that "not sinning" was easy. Think about "Thou shalt not covet", which is one of the Big 10. Coveting is completely a "thought-crime", a sin of the heart.

So, as Jesus pointed out in the scripture Barney just quoted, it's not just about actions; God looks at the heart.

Yes , the why we do as we do surely does matter . For many can do that which is a good act for all the wrong reasons .
Example . Prosperity gospel . Sure they might to the poor , but the question is WHY are they giving .
Is it because they simply loved them , OR is it because they give with the idea they will recieve ten fold etc MORE MONEY
if they do give . OH yeah GOD looketh upon the heart .

 

[St. SteVen]

Jealousy is a feeling, a negative one to be sure. But is it a sin? I generally think of sins as actions.

I see that @BarneyFife and @Lambano gave sufficient answers to this.

Anger is a good corollary - another negative emotion. Paul said, "be angry, but don't sin." (Ephesians something or other)

I don't think of anger as a sin, either.

Good point.
In the case of God we are told that he acts on his supposed anger with merciless revenge of the most cruel and sadistic nature.
Which for that reason I can not accept. It slanders the good character of God.

The church has built their dating of the crucifixion around (1) Jesus birth being in Herod's reign, and (2) Jesus being "about 30 years old" when he began his ministry. That latter point seems pretty vague and perhaps built on the Jewish tradition that one must be at least 30 to become a Rabbi.

At least one of the church fathers dated the crucifixion over a decade later (Irenaeus), putting Jesus in his mid-40's at the time of the crucifixion.

Yes, that would give us earlier writing dates for the gospels. But there are still a lot of issues to contend with, as you probably know.
Why are the Synoptic Gospels nearly word-for-word duplicates? And with conflicting accounts.
Like the fig tree. Died immediately, or over night?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth, I would like to add this little bit to my previous reply,

Rev. 14:10 “His (God's) wrath”—receiving the consequences of life’s choices when we force away God’s protection (7:1-2). Results in ruin, famine and disaster (Isa 51:19).The end of the world is not punishment from God but reaping the consequences of our wicked choices (Romans 1:18, 24, 26, 28). Sin is deadly and destroys everyone who refuses God's salvation. At the Second Coming some are glad to see their Saviour (Isa 25:9), others are afraid of the universe's greatest lover! (Revelation 6:15- 17) The problem lies in the sinful mind of man which leads to his own destruction as repeatedly stated (Genesis 2:17; Romans 6:23) and demonstrated in the life of people such as King Saul and Judas (Matthew 27:5). The Second Coming is not vindictive (Hebrews 9:28).

Shouldn't we just learn from and agree with what the scriptures say about God? Did God say in His word that He will judge the world? Did God speak about His wrath, anger, vengeance and jealousy in the scriptures? Sure there is a reaping of consequences and reaping His anger, wrath, vengeance is the consequence. But the thing is that His wrath, anger, vengeance, and jealousy are not fleshly emotions as man experiences them. God's wrath, anger, vengeance and jealousy are spiritual....pure, holy, righteous, just and perfect. Fear of the Lord is spiritual too...the flesh profits nothing.

What happened in the story of Shadrach, Meschak and Abednego when they were thrown into the furnace tells us something. Notice the ones who threw them into the furnace,(heated 7 times hotter!) were consumed by the fire, while the righteous Hebrews were spared the consuming fire, being with Jesus in it. Think we're going to see things get mighty hot around the time when the Lord returns......seven times hotter! Our God is a consuming fire....wouldn't want to be found on that day teaching people they have nothing to fear:

Mal 3:16-18

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


Mal 4:1-3

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven (furnace!); and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

When Jesus returns He will discern and divide between the righteous and the wicked, ie, between those who serve Him and those who don't, ie, between those who fear Him and those who don't. People need to rethink this bad habit of questioning God's word like the serpent in the Garden did, and instead of rewriting the bible (ridiculous and dangerous to think we or any man can write it better than He did!), and rather stand aside and let the word do it's work of washing by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wick Stick]

Mat 5:21-28 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You take this to mean that anger is a sin? Explain.

 

[quietthinker]

Shouldn't we just learn from and agree with what the scriptures say about God? Did God say in His word that He will judge the world? Did God speak about His wrath, anger, vengeance and jealousy in the scriptures? Sure there is a reaping of consequences and reaping His anger, wrath, vengeance is the consequence. But the thing is that His wrath, anger, vengeance, and jealousy are not fleshly emotions as man experiences them. God's wrath, anger, vengeance and jealousy are spiritual....pure, holy, righteous, just and perfect. Fear of the Lord is spiritual too...the flesh profits nothing.

What happened in the story of Shadrach, Meschak and Abednego when they were thrown into the furnace tells us something. Notice the ones who threw them into the furnace,(heated 7 times hotter!) were consumed by the fire, while the righteous Hebrews were spared the consuming fire, being with Jesus in it. Think we're going to see things get mighty hot around the time when the Lord returns......seven times hotter! Our God is a consuming fire....wouldn't want to be found on that day teaching people they have nothing to fear:

Mal 3:16-18

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


Mal 4:1-3

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven (furnace!); and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

When Jesus returns He will discern and divide between the righteous and the wicked, ie, between those who serve Him and those who don't, ie, between those who fear Him and those who don't. People need to rethink this bad habit of questioning God's word like the serpent in the Garden did, and instead of rewriting the bible (ridiculous and dangerous to think we or any man can write it better than He did!), and rather stand aside and let the word do it's work of washing by the Holy Spirit.

Men judge God as unworthy of worship and thereby alienate themselves from the source of life; it's consequence, death.
God doesn't need to kill anybody.
Romans 1 defines 'God's wrath'. Scriptures which mention the wrath of God must be interpreted in this light.

 

[Lizbeth]

Men judge God as unworthy of worship and thereby alienate themselves from the source of life; it's consequence, death.
God doesn't need to kill anybody.
Romans 1 defines 'God's wrath'. Scriptures which mention the wrath of God must be interpreted in this light.

Think we ought to just glorify God as God....He who holds the keys of both life and death.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

/

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

New topic.

The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

View attachment 38139

Did you weigh in on the topic, or just an observer?

- Damnationism?
- Annihilationism?
- Universal Restoration?

/

 

[Arthur81]

I think God is prety clear what he thinks about it

Lev 18: 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

Now how would I treat them? Like I would any other sinner. I would not judge them, I would try to lead them to Christ.

If they come to Christ, they should see what God says about that sin, and God should change them from that thinking (I have witnessed it happen by the way)

A practicing LGB person is in sin, just as a Practicing single person who is having sex with their BF/GF

Hi, I'd like to suggest a couple things for the saints to think about. What exactly is the "abomination" in Lev. 18:22? The chapter starts out pointing out the sin of Egypt and Canaan, and then in v3 you have the KJV word "ordinances" and the Hebrew is H2708 chuqqah and that is a word of religious rites ritual. Use the Bible software and follow the use of the word and so often it refers to the Passover. I take that as a hint that the chapter is about sex related to idolatry.

The word "abomination" itself in v22 is H8441 to ebah and again if you follow that word through, you'll see it is a word connected to idolatry and religious sexual practice. The same word is used in connection with the male and female cult prostitutes in Deut 23:17,81. Therefore, I believe those scholars are right that the sexual list in Leviticus 18 is connected to idolatrous ritual.

This to me applies to the Jews, Israel, and it is so stated in the last verse of the book:

"These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 KJV)

One other thought on this. The book of Ezekiel uses H8441 to ebah 41 times and it is overwhelmingly referring to things connected to idolatry. In the description of the sin of Sodom in Eze. 16:46-50, you find this word used about Sodom. Was that attempted rape in any way caused by an underlying idolatrous practice of sex in that wicked city?

These are some thoughts for consideration of other Christians here.

 

[Arthur81]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

Steven, there is another disconnect on this topic for some of us older guys. I'm 81 and when I was in junior high and a senior, "queers" were joked about, boys teasing each other. It was not a hate filled thing as I remember. I never heard the topic of homosexuality ever mentioned until a visiting evangelist spoke of it in a revival. Even then, he had more of an attitude of disgust that older white men were paying young black boys for sex.

I remember there were two young men I heard gossiped about when I was teen and it was largely making crude jokes about them, but even then I do not remember the hatred that seems to be so prominent today. In fact they seemed to be more looked upon as pitiful more than abominations. This was in the 1950s, a rural area. In some ways, culture seems to have passed me by. For years I did not watch movies or much TV. In recent years I've been watching movies on TV. One thing that has shocked me, how the very disgusting, vulgar word "f...k..." is consistently used as a common expression of anger or upset. I've wondered when that word became so commonly accepted in everyday use.

I know all of the personal situations openly discussed today existed back then, but in the 1950s where I grew up, you just did not hear it discussed. I do believe if the topic of transsexuals had come up, it would have been looked upon as a sad and pitiful situation that no one outside the person and family involved had any right to judge on it.

For me it is more simple to just stick to the biblical descriptions of conduct, behavior, and stay away from the modern psychological concepts for it can be so hurtful for others. Yet, I am disgusted by what I see in Gay Pride Parades and such displays. I suppose I'm so far out of the modern culture, I still cannot get over how a cable TV company actually carries such a wicked program as RuPaul's Drag Show or whatever it is called. Forgive me, I'm rambling now.

 

[St. SteVen]

Steven, there is another disconnect on this topic for some of us older guys. I'm 81 and when I was in junior high and a senior, "queers" were joked about, boys teasing each other. It was not a hate filled thing as I remember. I never heard the topic of homosexuality ever mentioned until a visiting evangelist spoke of it in a revival. Even then, he had more of an attitude of disgust that older white men were paying young black boys for sex.

Thank you for weighing in on this. I always appreciate hearing your perspective on things.

I think I grew up in a similar cultural situation that you describe. Though I'm a bit younger and was in a suburban setting.
Calling boys "queer" was a way of questioning their masculinity. I remember being poked fun at for buying a cable for my electric guitar
that seemed a good match to the color of the instrument. I guess boys weren't supposed to do that. But then I ended up having
a career in graphic design and interior design. So... ??? (see the OP for this topic)

If you haven't seen it, this new topic is heading in that direction. (I hope) See the video in post #2.

Why don't we enforce the biblical prescriptives on hair length for men and women?

/

 

[amigo de christo]

Hi, I'd like to suggest a couple things for the saints to think about. What exactly is the "abomination" in Lev. 18:22? The chapter starts out pointing out the sin of Egypt and Canaan, and then in v3 you have the KJV word "ordinances" and the Hebrew is H2708 chuqqah and that is a word of religious rites ritual. Use the Bible software and follow the use of the word and so often it refers to the Passover. I take that as a hint that the chapter is about sex related to idolatry.

The word "abomination" itself in v22 is H8441 to ebah and again if you follow that word through, you'll see it is a word connected to idolatry and religious sexual practice. The same word is used in connection with the male and female cult prostitutes in Deut 23:17,81. Therefore, I believe those scholars are right that the sexual list in Leviticus 18 is connected to idolatrous ritual.

This to me applies to the Jews, Israel, and it is so stated in the last verse of the book:

"These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 KJV)

One other thought on this. The book of Ezekiel uses H8441 to ebah 41 times and it is overwhelmingly referring to things connected to idolatry. In the description of the sin of Sodom in Eze. 16:46-50, you find this word used about Sodom. Was that attempted rape in any way caused by an underlying idolatrous practice of sex in that wicked city?

These are some thoughts for consideration of other Christians here.

what a crock . i seen this before . its just men trying to get us to believe its okay for man to be with man
Ps , i seen this approach for years dude . mathew vines and company . All they are doing is the same as many men
before them have done . TRYING to JUSTIFY THIER OWN SIN and TO GET PEOPLE to approve of their sin .
AND it aint just the homosexual agenda , I SEEN this with many other doctrines too