Paul claimed 3 times that Revelation 20:4 was a current reality.

[covenantee]

So please answer this question now asked for the 4th time- Show form SCripture whee the provisions of the New Covenant as inspired in Jer. 31 are fulfilled?

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Everything you cited is 100% true. But show bypointing ot the verses of Jer. 31 how any of those are fulfilled.

Did you read Acts 2 and Acts 4?

Hundreds of times.

But why don't you show me what has exactly been fulfilled from the New covenant and stop dodging that.

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


If it is fully in effect as you say- you should have no problem say taking vses. 33 and 34, pointing to history or a passage of Scripture and say- see here is where all Israel began to know th e Lord!

Did three thousand souls in Acts 2:41 enter into the New Covenant?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why Because what the New Covenant says and what you say it means are incongruous

Was Paul mistaken when he indicated that the new covenant is currently in effect when he talked about he and other disciples, including Gentiles, being ministers of the new covenant (2 Cor 3:6)?

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

Hebrews 10:8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

These passages makes it very clear that the new covenant was established and put into effect long ago already by its mediator, Jesus Christ. Do you understand why the old covenant is called "the old covenant"? Because it's no longer in effect and has been replaced by the new covenant.

Just because you don't fully understand how that is the case doesn't give you an excuse for not accepting what scripture clearly teaches, which is that the new covenant was put into effect long ago.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I can't help if you are a sloppy reader and use gimmicks to make it seem like a prophecy is fulfilled.

Gimmicks? You call other scripture which shows the new covenant as currently being in effect and applying to both Jew and Gentile believers gimmicks? Give me a break.

Verse 33 doesn't show an ongoing salvation, but something happening to the whole house of Israel (all the tribes), it is a one time act, not something that has been occuring for over 2 millenia now!

I have no trouble recognizing that Gentiles are partakers of many of the blessings of the promises made ot Israel, but it does not mean that the church has taken over the covenant.

Let me ask you something. If New Testament passages like Galatians 3:16-29 weren't written, would we know that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed applied to Christ and those who belong to Christ? Of course not. But, we do know that because of what Paul wrote. And even you can recognize that God's promises made to Israel were expanded to include Gentiles as well. So, with this in mind, why do you not also recognize that the new covenant was expanded to include the Gentiles as well?

I don't understand how you can recognize "that Gentiles are partakers of many of the blessings of the promises made to Israel", but can't recognize that the Gentiles are partakers of the new covenant as well. Scripture teaches that. It's as if you completely ignore all of the New Testament passages that talk about the new covenant.

As Paul also wrote in Romans, Gentiles are the wild olive branches grafted onto the vine (Jesus)

Yeah, so? What is your point here?

I will address your post when you go through verse by verse of Jeremiah and show their fulfilment as you said they have been.

That isn't going to happen. It should be enough that I showed scripture indicating that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ. If you aren't even going to acknowledge those scriptures, then it's clear that you will not acknowledge anything I say, either. So, I guess we're done here.

 

[rwb]

And I do not disagree, but like you just said- the New Cvoenant was written to a specific ethnic group (Jews).

You better read what I wrote again!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So all th eprovisions of the covenant are now in effect according to you.

Of course. Where is there any indication that the new covenant would only be partially in effect at any point? It's either fully in effect or not at all. Would you agree that it makes no sense for it to ever only be partially in effect?

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

So Israel and Judah now all have the law of God in their inward parts.

It does not say that. That is your false interpretation of what it's saying. It's speaking in a general sense similar to this:

Acts 2:16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 “‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

This is what Peter said on the day of Pentecost long ago when he quoted Joel 2:28-32. Taken literally, we would conclude that Joel prophesied that God said He would pour out His Spirit on literally all people. I mean, it says "all people", right? But, is that what it means, that God would pour out His Spirit on literally all people? Of course not. He only pours out His Spirit on believers. So, it means all believers in this case, not literally all people. So, there's no reason to think that Jeremiah 31 is saying that literally all people in Israel and Judah would have the law of God in their inward parts, either. Obviously, that only applies to believers and not unbelievers.

Israel is now gods people and god is the god of all Israel.

Spiritual Israel is God's people, according to Paul in Romans 9:6-8. Paul said in Romans 9:6 "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel". I don't think you know what that means.

 

[Brakelite]

It's a part of us along with the body and spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There seems to be a very close connection between a human's soul and spirit.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

You understand that the ones John saw were physically/bodily dead, right? Yet, they were still conscious. Is this hard for you to understand that there's more to us than just our bodies?

Genesis forms the framework for all truth. Anything derived from scripture that in your mind contradicts Genesis, is error. You have read the NT and believe it says that the soul of a part of the human person. Yet Genesis states otherwise.
KJV Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that a soul survives the death of the body. You need to read the NT in light of Genesis... Not in light of your own deciding and pagan literature.

 

[rwb]

Genesis forms the framework for all truth. Anything derived from scripture that in your mind contradicts Genesis, is error. You have read the NT and believe it says that the soul of a part of the human person. Yet Genesis states otherwise.
KJV Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that a soul survives the death of the body. You need to read the NT in light of Genesis... Not in light of your own deciding and pagan literature.

You would do well to read Genesis in light of the New Testament.

 

[ewq1938]

Genesis forms the framework for all truth. Anything derived from scripture that in your mind contradicts Genesis, is error. You have read the NT and believe it says that the soul of a part of the human person. Yet Genesis states otherwise.
KJV Genesis 2:7
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that a soul survives the death of the body. You need to read the NT in light of Genesis... Not in light of your own deciding and pagan literature.

Scripture says man is a soul and also says man has a soul. There are two types of souls in the bible.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[covenantee]

Hundreds of times.

But why don't you show me what has exactly been fulfilled from the New covenant and stop dodging that.

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.


If it is fully in effect as you say- you should have no problem say taking vses. 33 and 34, pointing to history or a passage of Scripture and say- see here is where all Israel began to know th e Lord!

In Acts 2:41, three thousand entered into the New Covenant, fulfilling Jeremiah 31:31.
In Acts 4:4, five thousand entered into the New Covenant, fulfilling Jeremiah 31:31.

Eight thousand fulfillments of Jeremiah 31:31.

 

[Timtofly]

Many translations do not say these martyred saints must come to life. Consider for instance KJV that simply says, "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." John sees these martyred souls alive even after death. Because in time (symbolized a thousand years) they lived (past tense) and reigned (past tense) with Christ in time, which a thousand years symbolizes. They went spiritually alive to heaven after physical death where John sees them as living souls.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I see souls arguing on the internet. I doubt any of them have bodies.

Since they are already in heaven ruling and reigning with Christ, how can they? The first birth is spiritual, no?

If the first resurrection is spiritual, then so is the first birth, if one is consistent in their interpretation.

 

[Timtofly]

Your theology undermines Christ, His earthly ministry and His finished work on Calvary. It is an attack on God's truth. It is heretical. It should not be allowed on a Christian forum.

Your eschatology undermines Christ, His earthly Millennial Kingdom, and His finished work on the Cross, which takes away the sin of Adam's disobedience, and allows humans to live on a restored earth without sin, death and decay, and Satan.

Denying the book of Revelation can net you the judgments written therein.

You deny you are attacking Scripture, yet you are. You claim there has been no physical resurrection since Lazarus, but there has been. You change the first resurrection, which is physical into something it is not. You confuse the second birth with the first resurrection.

Many pre-mill are wrong, and many do not admit the full blessing of the Atonement of the Cross, but Amil claim John is wrong in Revelation and confused about what he saw and wrote.

 

[rwb]

I see souls arguing on the internet. I doubt any of them have bodies.

Since they are already in heaven ruling and reigning with Christ, how can they? The first birth is spiritual, no?

If the first resurrection is spiritual, then so is the first birth, if one is consistent in their interpretation.

Christians on the internet argue as COMPLETE souls, possessing both body and spirit, which together make us complete living souls. The spirit in man is the vital part in mankind, the invisible mind that controls all the organs of the human body. The body cannot naturally continue to have life apart from the spirit in them. And without the Holy Spirit in mankind's spirit, in physical death the spirit of man returns to God without eternal life that is kept through the Holy Spirit. So if a man physically dies possessing the Holy Spirit when he partook of the first resurrection, the resurrection life of Christ, the spirit returns to God in heaven ALIVE. These believers alive in heaven as living soul will not be complete again until Christ comes again and changes our mortal body to immortality, and from corruptible to incorruptible to reunite us with our eternal spirit that returns with Christ. Then as once more complete we are fitted for life on the new earth with Christ forever.

Believers don't go to heaven as living (spirit) soul until after they physically die. This is proven when John writes of these souls alive in heaven who HAVE LIVED and HAVE REIGNED in time, which a thousand years symbolizes.

Our first birth is physical, flesh and blood. Then when we are born again, which means we have part in the resurrection life of Christ, who is the first resurrection from the dead, we are spiritual alive through the Spirit of Christ in us, and fitted for heaven after our natural body died. That's why Paul says, that which is first is not spiritual, but natural, then afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 

[WPM]

Your eschatology undermines Christ, His earthly Millennial Kingdom, and His finished work on the Cross, which takes away the sin of Adam's disobedience, and allows humans to live on a restored earth without sin, death and decay, and Satan.

Denying the book of Revelation can net you the judgments written therein.

You deny you are attacking Scripture, yet you are. You claim there has been no physical resurrection since Lazarus, but there has been. You change the first resurrection, which is physical into something it is not. You confuse the second birth with the first resurrection.

Many pre-mill are wrong, and many do not admit the full blessing of the Atonement of the Cross, but Amil claim John is wrong in Revelation and confused about what he saw and wrote.

Not so. Quite the opposite.

The best way to shed light on any challenging or figurative passage is to bring other relevant passages unto the table and interpret Scripture with Scripture. This removes theological speculation and any need for private interpretation.

In understanding the much-debated and highly-symbolic Revelation 20, one should especially bring as much clear and related Scripture into one’s analyze. That is because there is such a stark divergence in how we should interpret the passage. It is so serious that Premils have felt the need to invent another age in-between this age and the age to come. So, we should bring all the evidence we can to help us dissect this obscure passage.

Please follow the color coding:

Revelation 1:5-6: “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

Revelation 20:6 mirrors this. It describes the same first resurrection (that of Christ) and it shows the same result (God’s people ruling and reigning as priest kings in and through Christ).

Revelation 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Premillennialists may be confused by who or what the first resurrection was and is, but that was not the case with the first century Church. They knew without any doubt that the resurrection of Christ was the first in time, order and importance. It was the central victorious element of the Christian faith. Without it the cross would have meant nothing.

Our spiritual position “in Christ” since Calvary and since the resurrection qualifies the believer to partake in the fruit of His victory over every single enemy.

Acts 26:23 declares, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos)."

The first resurrection opened up the Gospel to the nations!

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles.

Just like blindness and darkness are attributed to the Gentiles (without qualification) prior to the cross, it didn’t mean that every single Gentile was blind and in darkness. Scripture often described the Gentiles as a collective whole. That did not mean the Gentiles were all the same. Scripture, like us, makes generalities. Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry the heathen nations were viewed as being in wholesale ignorant and therefore outside of God’s plan of salvation. Could I suggest this was simply a general observation about the overall condition of the Gentiles as a broad mass, not an attempt to represent every single Gentile?

 

[Timtofly]

You understand that the ones John saw were physically/bodily dead, right? Yet, they were still conscious. Is this hard for you to understand that there's more to us than just our bodies?

No, you are not interpreting Revelation correctly.

These two are the same scene:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Can you guess which one is symbolism and which one is literal?

These are the same humans in Paradise since 30AD. The same group added to daily for 1992 years. The same group that has come out of this tribulation:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Why would you dismiss the literal view where they have had bodies since they arrived, for the symbolism John is giving in a series of explanations of the Seals that uses different colored horses as bullet points? Under the alter is the symbolism showing they are all covered by that Atonement Covenant, the New Testament you all are arguing about. Are there literal colored horses in existence some where? Does death and sheol literally ride around on horses? Why do you think you can convince readers that humans only have souls and they are all stuffed into a small place under a literal alter? You probably deny that the stars falling to earth, are literally the angels that Jesus declares He brings with Him to earth. Matthew 13. Matthew 24. Matthew 25. Jesus is not being symbolic when He states He and the Angels are on the earth gathering the sheep and goats, and the wheat and tares. Now the terms souls, wheat, tares, and goats represent literal human beings with literal physical bodies. The goats and tares are cast into the fire literally. The sheep and wheat maintain literal physical bodies. Like the church they leave Adam's dead corruptible flesh and are given God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies. To claim their souls maintain Adam's dead corruptible flesh, or God forbid, just naked souls is nonsense.

"If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked." 2 Corinthians 5:3

Paul was talking about the physical body, not a naked physical body. Paul never taught that souls existed naked without a physical body. Why do so many modern day Christians still accept a naked soul? John uses symbolism when referring to souls, not literal naked souls without a physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

Christians on the internet argue as COMPLETE souls, possessing both body and spirit, which together make us complete living souls. The spirit in man is the vital part in mankind, the invisible mind that controls all the organs of the human body. The body cannot naturally continue to have life apart from the spirit in them. And without the Holy Spirit in mankind's spirit, in physical death the spirit of man returns to God without eternal life that is kept through the Holy Spirit. So if a man physically dies possessing the Holy Spirit when he partook of the first resurrection, the resurrection life of Christ, the spirit returns to God in heaven ALIVE. These believers alive in heaven as living soul will not be complete again until Christ comes again and changes our mortal body to immortality, and from corruptible to incorruptible to reunite us with our eternal spirit that returns with Christ. Then as once more complete we are fitted for life on the new earth with Christ forever.

Believers don't go to heaven as living (spirit) soul until after they physically die. This is proven when John writes of these souls alive in heaven who HAVE LIVED and HAVE REIGNED in time, which a thousand years symbolizes.

Our first birth is physical, flesh and blood. Then when we are born again, which means we have part in the resurrection life of Christ, who is the first resurrection from the dead, we are spiritual alive through the Spirit of Christ in us, and fitted for heaven after our natural body died. That's why Paul says, that which is first is not spiritual, but natural, then afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

You are not complete. You have Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Your spirit is with God. You are only soul, because of Adam's disobedience. You have the Holy Spirit as interest until your soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Have you not been listening to Paul in all of his NT books?

All of the OT redeemed only had a soul until the Cross. You even deny they were given a first resurrection then. Yet you claim you are more complete than they are. Incredible.

All in Paradise have a soul and a physical body. They are waiting for the putting on of the spirit. Because the spirit is the image of God, not the physical air that keeps your physical body alive. Same word but 2 totally different definitions and phenomenon.

 

[Timtofly]

Not so. Quite the opposite.

The best way to shed light on any challenging or figurative passage is to bring other relevant passages unto the table and interpret Scripture with Scripture. This removes theological speculation and any need for private interpretation.

In understanding the much-debated and highly-symbolic Revelation 20, one should especially bring as much clear and related Scripture into one’s analyze. That is because there is such a stark divergence in how we should interpret the passage. It is so serious that Premils have felt the need to invent another age in-between this age and the age to come. So, we should bring all the evidence we can to help us dissect this obscure passage.

Please follow the color coding:

Revelation 1:5-6: “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

Revelation 20:6 mirrors this. It describes the same first resurrection (that of Christ) and it shows the same result (God’s people ruling and reigning as priest kings in and through Christ).

Revelation 20:6: “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Premillennialists may be confused by who or what the first resurrection was and is, but that was not the case with the first century Church. They knew without any doubt that the resurrection of Christ was the first in time, order and importance. It was the central victorious element of the Christian faith. Without it the cross would have meant nothing.

Our spiritual position “in Christ” since Calvary and since the resurrection qualifies the believer to partake in the fruit of His victory over every single enemy.

Acts 26:23 declares, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos)."

The first resurrection opened up the Gospel to the nations!

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles.

Just like blindness and darkness are attributed to the Gentiles (without qualification) prior to the cross, it didn’t mean that every single Gentile was blind and in darkness. Scripture often described the Gentiles as a collective whole. That did not mean the Gentiles were all the same. Scripture, like us, makes generalities. Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry the heathen nations were viewed as being in wholesale ignorant and therefore outside of God’s plan of salvation. Could I suggest this was simply a general observation about the overall condition of the Gentiles as a broad mass, not an attempt to represent every single Gentile?

You are the one denying the clear wording of Revelation 20 that defines a literal 1,000 year physical kingdom on earth.

You keep trying to use less clear OT passages to define your interpretation of Revelation 20.

Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3 that the first birth, first death, and first resurrection are physical.

Jesus is the Resurrection (physical) and the Life (spiritual). All who accept the Atonement and submit to the Holy Spirit are given the second birth, spiritual life in Christ. They are also afforded a physical resurrection, upon physical death, immediately into God's permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Was Paul mistaken when he indicated that the new covenant is currently in effect when he talked about he and other disciples, including Gentiles, being ministers of the new covenant (2 Cor 3:6)?

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

Hebrews 10:8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

These passages makes it very clear that the new covenant was established and put into effect long ago already by its mediator, Jesus Christ. Do you understand why the old covenant is called "the old covenant"? Because it's no longer in effect and has been replaced by the new covenant.

Just because you don't fully understand how that is the case doesn't give you an excuse for not accepting what scripture clearly teaches, which is that the new covenant was put into effect long ago.

Then just show me what parts of teh New Covenant have been fulfilled? It is that easy!

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

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31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Just point to averse and then show me when and where or how it has been fulfilled.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Gimmicks? You call other scripture which shows the new covenant as currently being in effect and applying to both Jew and Gentile believers gimmicks? Give me a break.


Let me ask you something. If New Testament passages like Galatians 3:16-29 weren't written, would we know that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed applied to Christ and those who belong to Christ? Of course not. But, we do know that because of what Paul wrote. And even you can recognize that God's promises made to Israel were expanded to include Gentiles as well. So, with this in mind, why do you not also recognize that the new covenant was expanded to include the Gentiles as well?

I don't understand how you can recognize "that Gentiles are partakers of many of the blessings of the promises made to Israel", but can't recognize that the Gentiles are partakers of the new covenant as well. Scripture teaches that. It's as if you completely ignore all of the New Testament passages that talk about the new covenant.


Yeah, so? What is your point here?


That isn't going to happen. It should be enough that I showed scripture indicating that the new covenant was put into effect by the blood of Christ. If you aren't even going to acknowledge those scriptures, then it's clear that you will not acknowledge anything I say, either. So, I guess we're done here.

I am just asking you to show me which parts of the Newq Covenant are fulfilled? Why is that so difficult for you to do?????

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

You say it is in effect but refuse to show which parts are in effect. Something is wrong trhere.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In Acts 2:41, three thousand entered into the New Covenant, fulfilling Jeremiah 31:31.
In Acts 4:4, five thousand entered into the New Covenant, fulfilling Jeremiah 31:31.

Eight thousand fulfillments of Jeremiah 31:31.

How so? the prophecy says the houses of Iseral and Judah, not just some of them.

 

[WPM]

I am just asking you to show me which parts of the Newq Covenant are fulfilled? Why is that so difficult for you to do?????

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

You say it is in effect but refuse to show which parts are in effect. Something is wrong trhere.

We have already answered that. You keep ignoring that.