Where did Christian Universalism come from? - New or old?

[St. SteVen]

No one who leaves this world as an unbeliever will see heaven

I'm familiar with that claim. It falls apart on closer examination.
It assumes that everyone had an opportunity to choose. Is that true? (nope)
And also ignores that fact that no one can come to God unless he brings them.

Countless billions have entered the afterlife with no knowledge of your claims.

Again, If UR is real. the cross is foolishness. why die if everyone is going to heaven anyway. Your justice means nothing..

Doesn't the Bible say that the gospel is foolishness? (to those who don't understand it)

We are saved BY GRACE (the cross) but THROUGH faith.

no faith. no salvation. period.

Agree. Each in turn.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn...
All will be.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

/

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm familiar with that claim. It falls apart on closer examination.
It assumes that everyone had an opportunity to choose. Is that true? (nope)
And also ignores that fact that no one can come to God unless he brings them.

Countless billions have entered the afterlife with no knowledge of your claims.

What do you make of all these claims that people make, saying they died and went to heaven..then came back to life again..then speak of their experiences on social media....?

Some of them are pretty amazing testimonies don’t you think?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm familiar with that claim. It falls apart on closer examination.
It assumes that everyone had an opportunity to choose. Is that true? (nope)

If this is true, Then God made a huge mistake

And also ignores that fact that no one can come to God unless he brings them.

He will attempt to draw them. they still have to react.

Countless billions have entered the afterlife with no knowledge of your claims.

Yet romans 1 says they have no excuse

Doesn't the Bible say that the gospel is foolishness? (to those who don't understand it)

No, actually it does not. it says the things of God are foolishness.

Thats why God has to help them understand, and why they have no excuse.

Agree. Each in turn.

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn...
All will be.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father
after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

/

those who belong to him..

who are those?

Those who see and believe (john 6)

again, No non believer will see heaven..

 

[St. SteVen]

If this is true, Then God made a huge mistake

How so?

He will attempt to draw them. they still have to react.

Sure. Every knee will bow and every tongue will acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord.
Would that be a good reaction?

Yet romans 1 says they have no excuse

I'm familiar with that claim as well. It falls apart on closer examination.

Is there salvation in the recognition of the creator in creation?
That's all that is required? (not according to you)
Your apologetic failed.

No, actually it does not. it says the things of God are foolishness.

Chapter and verse please.
You claimed that the things I was saying about UR were foolishness.
That seems to qualify them as the things of God in your eyes.

those who belong to him..

who are those?

Those who see and believe (john 6)

again, No non believer will see heaven..

Everyone belongs to him.

Right, No unbelievers in heaven.
You think that everyone should have a chance to believe, right?
Or not?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you make of all these claims that people make, saying they died and went to heaven..then came back to life again..then speak of their experiences on social media....?

Very interesting.
The NDEs that don't feature a trip to heaven are interesting as well.
Tells me a few things about death and what happens when we die.
Testimonies of watching the doctors resuscitation attempts.
A spiritual body with the ability to see and hear what is taking place from above the scene.
Even the medical industry is taking this seriously.

Some of them are pretty amazing testimonies don’t you think?

Indeed.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

The NDEs that don't feature a trip to heaven are interesting as well.
Tells me a few things about death and what happens when we die.
Testimonies of watching the doctors resuscitation attempts.
A spiritual body with the ability to see and hear what is taking place from above the scene.
Even the medical industry is taking this seriously.

@Ritajanice
These testimonies helped me to develop some theories about our body, soul and spirit.
Especially as it relates to the afterlife. What did you get out of them?

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How so?


Sure. Every knee will bow and every tongue will acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord.
Would that be a good reaction?


I'm familiar with that claim as well. It falls apart on closer examination.

Is there salvation in the recognition of the creator in creation?
That's all that is required? (not according to you)
Your apologetic failed.


Chapter and verse please.
You claimed that the things I was saying about UR were foolishness.
That seems to qualify them as the things of God in your eyes.


Everyone belongs to him.

Right, No unbelievers in heaven.
You think that everyone should have a chance to believe, right?
Or not?

/

If you die in unbelief

you die condemned.

Your lost forever.

Once you see Christ as who he is, who is going to deny him?

sorry, it is too late then

 

[St. SteVen]

If you die in unbelief

you die condemned.

Your lost forever.

Once you see Christ as who he is, who is going to deny him?

sorry, it is too late then

Are you familiar with the line in the Creed that says that Jesus descended into hell?
What do you know about that?

/

 

[Ritajanice]

@Ritajanice
These testimonies helped me to develop some theories about our body, soul and spirit.
Especially as it relates to the afterlife. What did you get out of them?

/

What did I get out of them.

An open mind....there must be something with all of these testimonies.......

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you familiar with the line in the Creed that says that Jesus descended into hell?
What do you know about that?

/

I know he took paradise with him to heaven. And left hades where it was.

If you die in unbelief, you die condemned.

there is no hope for you

 

[St. SteVen]

I know he took paradise with him to heaven. And left hades where it was.

If you die in unbelief, you die condemned.

there is no hope for you

You are awfully dogmatic for someone with such limited knowledge of such things.


Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that,
though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are awfully dogmatic for someone with such limited knowledge of such things.

limited knowledge?

Thats an aweful proud statement my friend.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Note: Christ was laid in an above ground tomb. Where is the heart of the earth?

Answer: the realm of the dead

1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

1 Peter 4:6 NRSV
For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that,
though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

/

I know he went to the heart of the earth

He took paraidse to heaven with him, And told the prisoners in hades that their fate was sealed.

Once again

NO ONE WHO DIES HAVING REJECTED CHRIST OFFER OF SALVATION WILL SEE HEAVEN.

You do not get a second chance. No where in scripture does it say a non believer will get a get out of hell free card.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
You are awfully dogmatic for someone with such limited knowledge of such things.

limited knowledge?

Thats an aweful proud statement my friend.

LOL
There are two misspellings in your post.

Besides, you prove the point about your lack of knowledge every time you post.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

He took paraidse to heaven with him, And told the prisoners in hades that their fate was sealed.

He did no such thing.

You do not get a second chance. No where in scripture does it say a non believer will get a get out of hell free card.

Nothing is left to chance.
It seems the disobedient have a get-out-of-hell-free card. - LOL

1 Corinthians 3:15 NIV
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

St. SteVen said:
You are awfully dogmatic for someone with such limited knowledge of such things.

LOL
There are two misspellings in your post.

Besides, you prove the point about your lack of knowledge every time you post.

/

whatever

If anyone here lacks knowledge it is you my friend

You make the cross null and void and christ die for nothing

and you have unbelievers who reject christ in this lifetime making it to heaven

I have pneumonia. I can hardly think, so if I just have a few misspellings. that's prety good.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He did no such thing.

In jesus day, Paradise was under the earth

today. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.

Nice try but...

Nothing is left to chance.
It seems the disobedient have a get-out-of-hell-free card. - LOL

1 Corinthians 3:15 NIV
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

/

1 cor 3 speak of believers going through a BEMA judgment where their works done after they are saved are rewarded.

There will be no believers at the great white throne judgment, They will be delivered to Christ. and every one of them will be cast into outer darkness Because they rejected Christ.

The believer is a sinner who was worthy of condemnation. but recieved Christ grace gift of salvation.

He who believes is not condemned

He who believes not is condemned already, because they have not believed.

if they die in that state, they will remain condemned.

You want to live however you please and refuse to repent and think you will get to heave, you have a rude awakening waiting for you

 

[St. SteVen]

You make the cross null and void and christ die for nothing

On the contrary.
The atonement was for all people. Our death penalty for sin paid in full.

and you have unbelievers who reject christ in this lifetime making it to heaven

Not on that basis. Everyone will answer for their deeds.
We'll all need a tune-up before heaven.

I have pneumonia. I can hardly think, so if I just have a few misspellings. that's prety good.

That sounds serious.
I pray for complete and immediate healing in Jesus' name.
Inflammation, dry cough, chest pain, fever, and difficulty breathing, be gone now. AMEN

/

 

[St. SteVen]

The believer is a sinner who was worthy of condemnation. but recieved Christ grace gift of salvation.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Okay, time out you two.
Let's get back on topic.
- Do you understand where UR came from?

Satan

LOL

Did you know that there are three biblical doctrines of the final judgement?
This unbiased video discusses all three. Time to educate yourself.
Watch this and let me know what your questions are. Thanks.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

On the contrary.
The atonement was for all people. Our death penalty for sin paid in full.

Yes,

But like jesus said, Unless you look to the cross. It will not be given to you

Not on that basis. Everyone will answer for their deeds.
We'll all need a tune-up before heaven.

Again, No unbeliever will be at the BEMA judgment

and no believer will be at the great white throne judgment.

I will be resurrected by him, Not delivered to him

That sounds serious.
I pray for complete and immediate healing in Jesus' name.
Inflammation, dry cough, chest pain, fever, and difficulty breathing, be gone now. AMEN

/

Thank you