>I wouldn't say we condemn other people.I notice the non-OSAS crowd always condemns other people, never themselves
I'd say that we feel that we will never be able to leave God,
but we cannot speak for anyone else.
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
>I wouldn't say we condemn other people.I notice the non-OSAS crowd always condemns other people, never themselves
You sound mixed up>I wouldn't say we condemn other people.
I'd say that we feel that we will never be able to leave God,
but we cannot speak for anyone else.
how bout we back up and you answer my question first, being as how that's all we ever do and all lolHow does a non-OSAS person obey when all they ever do is place judgment on everyone around them and condemn them because they don't believe the same as you do?
I was just trying to get your attention.is this supposed to be a reply to "some people must obviously not be holding out to the end?"
if so i don't get it, sorry
Don't mean to butt in, if I may respond to thisDid those in 2 Peter 2:20-21 lose their salvation?
Mathew 7:22 is a very interesting verse.So it is the perception of salvation that is in question. In which case I would ask why would people be able to do things by the Spirit, such as driving out demons, and then cry Lord Lord and be told by Jesus that he never knew them.Matthew 7:22.
For the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation.
Je ne sais pas what you're talking about!!Don't mean to butt in, if I may respond to this
lets keep on reading,
2 Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire".
is there anything too hard for the Lord?, let's see if one get dirty is it beyond God?. Psalms 51:7 -13 "Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit".
ah ok, ty, and fwiw i would not counsel you to abandon your belief, so much as to examine how believing in something in Scripture can close your mind to even reading other Scripture that presents a different pov. It is possible to have no belief in the matter iow. Another way to say it is that you are completely right from a certain perspective, and could no be any wronger from another. And it is in making a choice to believe one "side" of a doctrine or another that we maybe reveal where we stand, where our heart is.I was just trying to get your attention.
God cannot stop believing in himself
And neither can we...
Je ne sais pas what you're talking about!!
How does your second paragraph explain what I posted?
Referring to 2 Peter 2:20-21
Your second paragraph only happens if the person is willing to be washed...
BG,
A son is not Always a son.
The Prodigal son left his father.
Here is a post from another thread. (there must be two salvation threads...)
Luke 15:24
The son became DEAD after he left his father.
The father had given him his inheritance and he was to receive no more.
The father says that the son WAD DEAD and had come to life AGAIN.
This means the son was
alive
dead
alive again
When one LEAVES the Father and Jesus who is the vine that gives us life,
he becomes DEAD.
True.This is true. God will not force the gift of life on anyone.
o
A lot of truth in that. A big problem in the argument about losing salvation is different people have different ideas about what being saved means.lol, funny
he who holds out to the end will be saved implies that many or some do not hold out to the end
Boy, are you trouble.
Do you ever interact with real people in real life?
Therefore, to debate this issue is basically fruitless unless a new person is on board and wants more understanding.
Very intelligent answer.Garbage in.....garbage out....
I never said there wasn't.How do you know there isn't? These places are full of lurkers and one doesn't have to be a registered member to follow along.
o
Is this not teh problem.?? We all desire to be the "perfect' son yet God only ever had one, His name is Jesus. God knew full well what we where going to do, so much has happened behind teh scenes of which so few are aware, and I can guarantee God has far more aces up His sleeve than ewe can imagine, you know this bit."Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." Matt 25:21
Yes, it is our own understanding, which, if we follow it, will get us into trouble. In a tiny measure, sometimes, God will let us see His plan, but in spite of that we will still sometimes find ourselves missing the Way.Is this not teh problem.?? We all desire to be the "perfect' son yet God only ever had one, His name is Jesus. God knew full well what we where going to do, so much has happened behind teh scenes of which so few are aware, and I can guarantee God has far more aces up His sleeve than ewe can imagine, you know this bit.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
So God has a plan and He will accomplish it, He didnt start all this without first planning teh end. So ill just trust Him and not lean on my own understanding. Could never figure Him out anyway if I tried.
I believe it is possible for a heaven bound Christian to end up condemned. There are many passages describing this but I believe the parable in Luke 12:42-46 is one of the clearest.
In this parable, the word "manager" is singular, showing that there is only one faithful and wise manager being spoken of. Looking at the verses, we have:
a) V.42 tells us of a faithful and wise manager (obviously a saved man) who is put in charge while the master (Jesus) is away.
b) Vs. 43-44 say that the servant will be rewarded and put in charge of all the master's possessions if the master returns and finds that the servant has remained faithful.
c) Vs. 45-46 then tells us that the same servant will be condemned and assigned a place with the unbelievers (in hell) if the master returns and finds that he is sinning and mistreating the other servants etc.
To say that the servant will be assigned a place with unbelievers makes it obvious that he was a believer initially.
To me, this is one of several parables and passages which clearly show that a Christian can be rewarded or condemned, depending on his actions.
Loss of salvation is a vitally important issue.
What do you think of this parable?