Do you do this?

[VictoryinJesus]

may the fellowship of the Holy Wind be with us all today.

have a good one

I have to ask you, God makes nothing expect for the Glory of God to be revealed. Why does the "idol shepherd" have a withered hand? "Arm dried clean up."

 

[bbyrd009]

Why does the "idol shepherd" have a withered hand? "Arm dried clean up."

my guess would be bc he is idol?

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1.....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.149....0.cZtKqDyzkq0

wow, that almost never happens anymore, no return? can you Quote the v? ty

idle shepherd? prolly

 

[VictoryinJesus]

my guess would be bc he is idol?

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS718US718&ei=90VzWqe_FoqJ5wLtzqPAAQ&q=why+does+the+"idol+shepherd"+have+a+withered+hand?+"arm+dried+clean+up."&oq=Why+does+the+"idol+shepherd"+have+a+withered+hand?+"Arm+dried+clean+up."&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39k1.16730.17609.0.19367.4.4.0.0.0.0.150.449.2j2.4.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.149....0.cZtKqDyzkq0

wow, that almost never happens anymore, no return? can you Quote the v? ty

idle shepherd? prolly

Zechariah 11:17
[17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

 

[bbyrd009]

Zechariah 11:17
[17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

ah, ok. surprised it didn't search, hmm. I guess KJV is the only one that translates idol there; still surprised it wouldn't search though

 

[bbyrd009]

Zechariah 11:17
[17]...his arm shall be clean dried up

so, to reply to your Q, i guess it is pointless to go around looking for pastors with withered arms, to say the least lol.
i guess arms have a symbology, having to do with one's reach, mostly?

 

[ScottA]

I asked what evidence you give and you wrote "no"!

You left off the "ne" at the end of that: NONE

Thank you for your time.

Mary

Oh...did you think I was speaking to you?

I wasn't. Just turning in my report. It is written.

 

[Marymog]

Oh...did you think I was speaking to you?

I wasn't. Just turning in my report. It is written.

Yes sir. I thought you were speaking to me since you QUOTED me and then responded to me ......taking the cowardly way out but saying "NO" instead of articulating what you believe!! You weren't prepared for my thought provoking questions that destroyed your theory. 1 Peter 3:15

BTW......A little lesson in the English structure of the written conversation. When a person quotes someone and then responds to that quote that usually means that they are speaking to them.

I honestly didn't expect you to articulate defense of your personal and unscriptural beliefs (since there is no defense) but I wanted to give you a chance to explain yourself. You couldn't. You failed. Don't be embarrassed.

You have found yourself to agree with you. I have Jesus, the NT Christians, the Apostolic Fathers and first century Christian historical writings who agree with me and prove you wrong.

Therefor it is TRULY written that your belief is unbiblical and not backed up by anyone but....YOU!!!

Just to be clear....I am speaking to you @ScottA .

If you want to try ONE MORE TIME to defend your belief with logic and facts....I look forward to it.

IHS....Mary

 

[Angelina]

Hi y'all I am slowly reading this thread and am finding it very interesting. @Marymog you said in Post 19 when replying to Wormwood ~ "The accusation WAS based on the aforementioned words that Paul said and Paul was taught by the Apostles." Yet he states in 1 Galatians 11-12 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. As a matter of reference, he did not go up to Jerusalem as did the apostles until 3 years later to become acquainted with Cephas [Peter] and saw no-one else but James, the Lord's brother. Gal 1:15-18.

 

[ScottA]

Yes sir. I thought you were speaking to me since you QUOTED me and then responded to me ......taking the cowardly way out but saying "NO" instead of articulating what you believe!! You weren't prepared for my thought provoking questions that destroyed your theory. 1 Peter 3:15

BTW......A little lesson in the English structure of the written conversation. When a person quotes someone and then responds to that quote that usually means that they are speaking to them.

I honestly didn't expect you to articulate defense of your personal and unscriptural beliefs (since there is no defense) but I wanted to give you a chance to explain yourself. You couldn't. You failed. Don't be embarrassed.

You have found yourself to agree with you. I have Jesus, the NT Christians, the Apostolic Fathers and first century Christian historical writings who agree with me and prove you wrong.

Therefor it is TRULY written that your belief is unbiblical and not backed up by anyone but....YOU!!!

Just to be clear....I am speaking to you @ScottA .

If you want to try ONE MORE TIME to defend your belief with logic and facts....I look forward to it.

IHS....Mary

Hahaha, I was just messing with you - which you deserve, because I have answered you many times and you ignore my answers. It was that or ignore you. Which I will likely do in the future, because you have such horrible communication skills, no respect, and don't want to hear from Him who has sent me.

Enjoy your salad.

 

[Marymog]

Hi y'all I am slowly reading this thread and am finding it very interesting. @Marymog you said in Post 19 when replying to Wormwood ~ "The accusation WAS based on the aforementioned words that Paul said and Paul was taught by the Apostles." Yet he states in 1 Galatians 11-12 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. As a matter of reference, he did not go up to Jerusalem as did the apostles until 3 years later to become acquainted with Cephas [Peter] and saw no-one else but James, the Lord's brother. Gal 1:15-18.

Hi Angelina,

Thank you for joining the conversation. I think it is important to look at what ALL of scripture has to say.....not just the verses that fit our beliefs.

If you read further into the thread to Kepha's post #87 and my post #99 this has been covered. I will summarize my post and let @kepha31 speak to his.

When I suggested Paul was taught by the Apostles I partially based that statement on the aforementioned Galatians 1:18-19 in which Paul and Peter spent fifteen days together. During that 15 days do you believe that they didn't discuss very important matters in regards to Jesus and his teachings AND that they were UNABLE to teach Paul ANYTHING?

I will admit, it is plausible that Peter and James couldn't teach Paul anything he didn't know already since Jesus already taught.

If you believe that Peter and James were not able to teach Paul anything because Jesus taught Paul everything he needed to know then how do we account for what happened in Galatians 2 in which Paul mentions that he explicitly brought his gospel before the Jerusalem Apostles Peter, James and John. He brought it to them because he had a fear "that he might be running, or had run, in vain." Does this not tell you that Paul wanted to verify with the Apostles the content of his teaching to be sure that he was teaching the words of Jesus correctly? Maybe, just maybe, he could and did learn something from them?

The shoe was on the other foot when Paul stood up to Peter. Remember that??

Both great men however they both taught each other something.

Hope that helps.

Love Mary

 

[amadeus]

ya, lots of counterfeits for that, too, ppl dying to the earth, that is an epidemic right now, i could show that easy in about two links, same ppl who do not understand how Autists are made, where Crohn's comes from, where Cancer comes from, etc

Or even... where death comes from!

 

[Marymog]

Hahaha, I was just messing with you - which you deserve, because I have answered you many times and you ignore my answers. It was that or ignore you. Which I will likely do in the future, because you have such horrible communication skills, no respect, and don't want to hear from Him who has sent me. Enjoy your salad.

"Hahaha, I was just messing with you" Your statement reminds me of the nervous laughter of my children after I have caught them being dishonest realizing that what they said was dishonest and disrespectful and they want to laugh their way out of it.....

I deserve being messed with because?????

Horrible communication skills???? Please explain. I have made it clear to you that I don't understand what you are saying. Can you please quote from any of your post where you have asked me to explain myself because you didn't understand what I was saying or asking???? I don't recall you ever asking me to clarify myself soooooo my communication skills must be just fine????

I ask you questions. You either don't answer them or you answer them in a cryptic way that I can't understand what you meant. Soooooo who has horrible communication skills????

If your communications skills were as good as you THINK they are....I wouldn't have to ask you to clarify yourself now would I???

I get it. It is easier to ignore someone asking you tough questions that you can't logically answer than it is to answer them.

Here we go again...putting yourself on a pedestal.....accusing ME of not wanting to hear from Him who sent YOU......Are you serious??

Is it possible I was sent to you by Him to save you???

I don't know what the snide remark "enjoy your salad" means. Can you explain it to me???

I am giving you another chance to answer the question you never answered: what makes you more credible than all the aforementioned men we have spoken of?

Please don't play the word game with me that God spoke to you and that makes you right. Here's a clue: God spoke to them also so until you can prove that God didn't speak to them please drop that silly argument. It is universal, weak and un-provable.


Mary

 

[Angelina]

Hi Angelina,

Thank you for joining the conversation. I think it is important to look at what ALL of scripture has to say.....not just the verses that fit our beliefs.

If you read further into the thread to Kepha's post #87 and my post #99 this has been covered. I will summarize my post and let @kepha31 speak to his.

When I suggested Paul was taught by the Apostles I partially based that statement on the aforementioned Galatians 1:18-19 in which Paul and Peter spent fifteen days together. During that 15 days do you believe that they didn't discuss very important matters in regards to Jesus and his teachings AND that they were UNABLE to teach Paul ANYTHING?

I will admit, it is plausible that Peter and James couldn't teach Paul anything he didn't know already since Jesus already taught.

If you believe that Peter and James were not able to teach Paul anything because Jesus taught Paul everything he needed to know then how do we account for what happened in Galatians 2 in which Paul mentions that he explicitly brought his gospel before the Jerusalem Apostles Peter, James and John. He brought it to them because he had a fear "that he might be running, or had run, in vain." Does this not tell you that Paul wanted to verify with the Apostles the content of his teaching to be sure that he was teaching the words of Jesus correctly? Maybe, just maybe, he could and did learn something from them?

The shoe was on the other foot when Paul stood up to Peter. Remember that??

Both great men however they both taught each other something.

Hope that helps.

Love Mary

Hi @Marymog, sorry I did not read all the conversations in this thread and I can see that my thoughts had already been discussed. I believe that Paul spent that time familiarizing himself with Cepha's and possibly trying to put him at ease concerning his conversion on the road to Damascus. Also possibly discussing his call as an apostle to Gentiles, something that Peter and later on, James and John had recognised. I am sure they discussed other things but Jesus was/had spoken to him directly. Yes I do remember Paul openly opposing Peter for his actions when the encountering men sent by James. Gal 2:14. However, I still hold to the fact the Paul was not taught by the Apostles but he [as did Jesus who was born under the law] followed the processes of requirements regarding the existing authority that was held by the Council at Jerusalem.

 

[Marymog]

Hi @Marymog, sorry I did not read all the conversations in this thread and I can see that my thoughts had already been discussed. I believe that Paul spent that time familiarizing himself with Cepha's and possibly trying to put him at ease concerning his conversion on the road to Damascus. Also possibly discussing his call as an apostle to Gentiles, something that Peter and later on, James and John had recognised. I am sure they discussed other things but Jesus was/had spoken to him directly. Yes I do remember Paul openly opposing Peter for his actions when the encountering men sent by James. Gal 2:14. However, I still hold to the fact the Paul was not taught by the Apostles but he [as did Jesus who was born under the law] followed the processes of requirements regarding the existing authority that was held by the Council at Jerusalem.

Thank you.

I don't disagree with you. That is why I qualified my thoughts with the question: Maybe, just maybe, he could and did learn something from them? I believe the Apostles probably taught him SOMETHING about Jesus or the inner workings of the early Church or some minor details. To think they didn't teach him ANYTHING would be a stretch.

With that said there is no indication in scripture that the Apostles taught him anything about Jesus and his teachings but even Paul had some doubt about his teachings.

Do you think Paul taught Peter anything when he opposed him to his face?

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

. During that 15 days do you believe that they didn't discuss very important matters in regards to Jesus and his teachings AND that they were UNABLE to teach Paul ANYTHING?

Paul didnt need the disciples His revelation was Jesus Christ, that what Jesus is building His church on that which is what reveals truth to us, that which we can only get from God,

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

As Paul put ot

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is "supposed" to be by teh Spirit we are led, buyt men still prefer to follow after men

 

[Angelina]

Thank you.

I don't disagree with you. That is why I qualified my thoughts with the question: Maybe, just maybe, he could and did learn something from them? I believe the Apostles probably taught him SOMETHING about Jesus or the inner workings of the early Church or some minor details. To think they didn't teach him ANYTHING would bthe e a stretch.

With that said there is no indication in scripture that the Apostles taught him anything about Jesus and his teachings but even Paul had some doubt about his teachings.

Do you think Paul taught Peter anything when he opposed him to his face?

Mary

Thanks for your reply. I'm sure Peter was still wrestling with the dream God gave him about the sheet coming down with all those unclean animals. It was a real transitional time for everyone. "The Way" was a revolutionary concept [John 14:6] which Jesus taught his followers.

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

Zechariah 11:17
[17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

ז Zayin זין Meaning debated. The word זין does not occur in Scriptures. Klein suggests that the form of the zayin represents a hand weapon, and explains that zyn means arm, ornament, to arm, to adorn (no references to Scriptures). Fuerst goes after the assumed root זוז (zwz) of the verb זיז (ziz), moving things (like animals) and מזוזה (mezuza), Mezuzah or doorpost. The identical root זוז (zwz) yields זיז(ziz), meaning abundance, fullness.
Another word of interest is זון (zun), to feed.
Meaning of the Hebrew Alphabet and a Survey per Hebrew Letter

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ז Zayin זין Meaning debated. The word זין does not occur in Scriptures. Klein suggests that the form of the zayin represents a hand weapon, and explains that zyn means arm, ornament, to arm, to adorn (no references to Scriptures). Fuerst goes after the assumed root זוז (zwz) of the verb זיז (ziz), moving things (like animals) and מזוזה (mezuza), Mezuzah or doorpost. The identical root זוז (zwz) yields זיז(ziz), meaning abundance, fullness.
Another word of interest is זון (zun), to feed.
Meaning of the Hebrew Alphabet and a Survey per Hebrew Letter

Thank you for researching what it means. I can tell you, none of that made sense to me.

This is what He revealed concerning the arm of the idol shepherd in a way I could understand. His "power" is clean dried up. The arm (weapon) is dried up of power.

Romans 8:28
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Evil has no more power when all works(by God) are for our good. Then what is evil? Evil has been cast out. Is not all good by God for us?

Romans 8:31
[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

I see the deceivers arm clean dried up of power over those that walk in the light. No weapon formed can prosper against us.

Job 12:14-16 speaks of God:
[14] Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening. [15] Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth. [16] With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Isaiah 14:16-17
[16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

 

[Truth]

Thank you for researching what it means. I can tell you, none of that made sense to me.

This is what He revealed concerning the arm of the idol shepherd in a way I could understand. His "power" is clean dried up. The arm (weapon) is dried up of power.

Romans 8:28
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Evil has no more power when all works(by God) are for our good. Then what is evil? Evil has been cast out. Is not all good by God for us?

Romans 8:31
[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

I see the deceivers arm clean dried up of power over those that walk in the light. No weapon formed can prosper against us.

Job 12:14-16 speaks of God:
[14] Behold, he breaketh down, and it cannot be built again: he shutteth up a man, and there can be no opening. [15] Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth. [16] With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Isaiah 14:16-17
[16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; [17] That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

I did So Enjoy this Post, bbyrd at times makes me upside-down LoL He is Sharp, but at times I have a hard time getting his point. Also after reading this post I do not believe that you are on the wrong path, continue to keep an ear tuned to the Spirit.