Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

[Nancy]

I smell a lot of burning!!!!

Lol!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Sooooo, your response is to tell me to go to a Protestant website and look up their commentaries on this topic?? YOU can't answer these things yourself??


You see - that's the danger of cherry-picking Scripture the way you do.
You don't LEARN anything that way.

It's more or less a combination of commentaries preaching metaphorical water if you know what I mean. Click here -----> Genesis 1:1 (NIV)

What makes you think H2O saves you? I think you're just using it as excuse to support your doctrine. I think you know better.

 

[Taken]

The apostle John was writing to believers because some of them were believing that sin was no longer sin to them

Where does Scripture say some were believing Sin was "no longer" Sin to them?

and so they were not sinning when they sin,

What Sin were these people supposedly committing?

which is why John refer to how Jesus walked in the light.

1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

John is speaking of a persons CLAIMS.
A person CLAIMING to be "IN CHRIST", while walking in DARKNESS.

You earlier gave an example of such a person, CLAIMING to be IN Christ, while NOT IN Belief, and later revealing their Disbelief.

This is John speaking of such persons.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Now John is speaking of a person in heartfelt belief and Converted, as such person is Walking in the Lords Light.

Now John is speaking of a person who has BEEN Cleansed from all his sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Now John is speaking of a person WHO has NOT been cleansed of his sin.......John is speaking of a person who does not believe he has sin, nor would he confess a sin he does not have, nor would he be forgiven and cleansed of his sin, or converted.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Now John is speaking of a person Who believes he has sin, believes in the Lord and is willing to Confess and Repent to the Lord......
John further teaches the Lord is Faithful to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now John is speaking to people who claim they have not sinned, thus again, there is no confession or repentance, or forgiveness, or conversion, and their claims result in making the Lord a liar.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Now John is teaching to not SIN. Which is to say, Do not stand against the Lord, attempt to make Him out to be a liar. Rather Trust and Believe and Lean on Him, appeal to Him, He will lead you To Forgiveness, Cleansing of all sin and unrighteousness, and overcoming darkness with His Light.

Further John teaches that whosoever is born again IS a son of God, and whosoever IS a son of God, CAN NOT SIN.

And do not forget Jesus IS a Son of God.

I believe the apostle John would have contentions with your words.

I don't.
I don't say anything different.
Reject the Lord, remain IN SIN, suffer the consequences.
Become converted, become forgiven, cleansed, sanctified, saved, quickened, a dead old man, a new creature, freed from sin and privy to His Understanding and forever with and in the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I smell a lot of burning!!!!

Yes indeed.
All of the works of the unsaved.
All of the unglorifying works of the saved.

But then it is A converted "man" that "is' Gods inheritance, not works.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Where does Scripture say some were believing Sin was "no longer" Sin to them?

I said John was addressing some believers that were thinking in that way for why he was writing the way that he did in the epistle of 1 John.

1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

John points out those who walk in darkness are not abiding in truth.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

By pointing out how some will walk in darkness, committing sin, will say that they have no sin, and thus the truth is not in them.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again by the way John is addressing those believers that walk in darkness. claiming that they have not sinned, are not abiding in Him in the truth.

What Sin were these people supposedly committing?

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Obviously, some of the brethren were hating other brethren. How they had convinced themselves that they were not sinning is beyond me.

 

[Helen]

I believe there is a difference between the acts of sin..ie not loving brother..and the nature of sin..which we do no longer have.

 

[Taken]

I said John was addressing some believers that were thinking in that way for why he was writing the way that he did in the epistle of 1 John.

I do not disagree with Scripture.
Nor do I need reminding of Scripture that does not apply to me.
If a Scripture applies to an UN-Converted man, it does not apply to me.

1 John 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

I do not require a message of how my joy may be full, when that is already accomplished.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

I do not require to be informed of what I already know.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him,

I do not not require to be informed of an "IF" that is already accomplished.

and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

I do not require to be informed of the walk an UnConverted man walks, and he lacks the truth.

John points out those who walk in darkness are not abiding in truth.

Yes and that is elementary basic knowledge and most appropriate for an UnConverted man to be taught, what the Lord accounts His WALK who is NOT IN the Lord.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,

Again, I do not require to be informed of an "IF" that is already accomplished in me.

we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Well aware I have fellowship with other Converted men.
Well aware the Lord has cleansed me from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin,

Does not apply to me. I not only admitted to have been born in sin, but have committed sin, and was Forgiven of all of my sin, cleansed, sanctified, saved, quickened, In the Lord, and Kept freed from Sin by the Indwelling Power of the Holy Spirit.

we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Does not apply to me. I confessed my sin to My Lord and My Lord, My God, thee Truth dwells IN me.

By pointing out how some will walk in darkness, committing sin, will say that they have no sin, and thus the truth is not in them.

I am well aware of what John is pointing out, and specifically WHOM is being addressed.
And it is NOT a Converted man who has Confessed to the Lord and the Lord has accomplished Conversion in the man.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again John impresses TO THE UNCONVERTED man.

A Converted man saying he DOES NOT SIN, is NOT a man claiming he HAS NO SIN.

Scripture is Clear. A converted mans SINS...
ARE forgiven, ARE covered, ARE remembered no more, ARE superseded BY Gods Light which over-Powers Darkness.

You are aware Darkness IS the absence of LIGHT?
Where there IS LIGHT, Darkness CAN NOT supersede and over-power the Light.

The Lord is THEE supreme LIGHT.
The Lord Dwelling IN a Converted man IS supreme Light that CAN NOT be thwarted, and over-taken by darkness.

It is your implication that a Converted man WITH the LIGHT/POWER of the Lord dwelling within the man.......CAN BE over-taken and the man revert to Darkness, that I do NOT believe.

Darkness...equated with SIN and the instigator of Sin, ie the Devil.....has power.

His power and mans power IS given him by thee Supreme Almighty. And no the Devils power, a mans power CAN NOT supersede and TAKE from the Lord the LIFE of a man that a man willingly and heartfully Chose to GIVE to the Lord and the Lord Accomplished in such man Salvation, Cleansing, Sanctification and Quickening of an eternal life WITH and IN the Lord.

Again by the way John is addressing those believers that walk in darkness. claiming that they have not sinned, are not abiding in Him in the truth.

Again, as already acknowledged....there are millions of believers, WHO have NOT called on the Lord in Confession and Repentance to Become Converted, which has ZERO application to me.

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Uh huh.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Obviously, some of the brethren were hating other brethren. How they had convinced themselves that they were not sinning is beyond me.

"Brethren" is a multiple use word.
People of the same RACE are brethren.
All Jews are Brethren.
All siblings are brethren.
All following the same thing...are brethren.
And ALL Converted men are of a unique "brotherhood". They are "brethren" of their Lord God.

What men did "then" is no different than what men Do today. Many hate men of their own race, political opponents, siblings, different religious sects, and on and on.

Jesus recongnizes discontent among men who are jealous, discontented, in disagreement, and simply says; Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you.

He is speaking TO those that belong to Him, who are those who CAN HEAR Him, those WHO are "IN" His unique "brotherhood" of the like- Converted. And? Remembering any directive the Lord Gives a man....He also is the Power within such man that a man CAN accomplish such directive.

Going back to 1 John 3:22 IS the WAY to Accomplish the Lords directives.

And sadly, IMO THAT paramount WAY, commonly appears to be superseded by a large number of people to asking the Lord for Worldly things, instead of his intervention of helping a man be a better follower of the Lords precepts.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

I amazed myself...I don't usually read your L....O....N....G posts, but I did get all the way through it...and agree. :)

 

[Taken]

I amazed myself...I don't usually read your L....O....N....G posts, but I did get all the way through it...and agree. :)

Maybe I'm sparking your interest to speed read. ;)

 

[Taken]

I believe there is a difference between the acts of sin..ie not loving brother..and the nature of sin..which we do no longer have.

I believe SIN is probably one of the most misunderstood words by Christians.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I do not disagree with Scripture.
Nor do I need reminding of Scripture that does not apply to me.
If a Scripture applies to an UN-Converted man, it does not apply to me.

John was writing to the believers that had been saved.. so it does apply to you as those things were written unto us so that our joy may be full.

1 John 1:1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

Your emphasis on the converted man not being able to sin is in denial of the the Book of 1 John.

Your emphasis on the converted man not being able to go astray from the faith is in denial of the warnings given by Jesus, Paul, Peter, & John.

If there was anything good that you could have done yesterday and have not done it yesterday.... know that James said you have sinned.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

There is no way you are perfect now that you can say that you cannot sin. If you say that what the apostle John had written does not apply to you in the Book of 1 John, then I would have to wonder if anything in the N.T. does.

 

[Truth]

Rebirth - Salvation and Conversion

It seems that many folks do not see the rebirth (by God) experience and event in their lives as ONLY the FIRST spiritual life-changing experience. There is a SECOND experience; it is the necessary conversion process (by the saved one) as true believers in Christ.

Some folks even get this ‘saved’ part wrong. They think they are still BEING SAVED.

They are saved, period! DONE

Whether they realize it or not, they ARE NOW BEING CONVERTED, it is the SECOND event that WE do with God. And it is not all about God’s spirit doing all the work of perfection/ conversion without our say in the matter. We can ‘will’ to allow God to increase our faith as the new seed increases in ‘size’ within us. Or we can stay as immature seeds of Christ and cling on to the spiritual basics al our lives without even crawling or stretching our spiritual legs.

Typically, in short, once one understands Jesus’ work, his words, believed on them genuinely, repentance and baptism occurs with saving faith given by God. God then provides the seed of regeneration in the heart by his spirit. This individual is ‘saved’ and has salvation. They are welded together. THEN the important process of conversion begins.

This process of conversion to Christ continues throughout our lives. Note that salvation to eternal life is not at stake throughout this life-long process. Salvation assurance is not based on our own efforts or desires or meeting some sort of standard as the heathen believe to stay in a relationship with God. We are already saved and therefore the offered free gift has been received and accepted by us.

Yes, there are some scripture that seems to indicate the the gift of salvation being taken back by God, although they all can be explained differently, and in the opposing direction. If these handful of scripture in fact proved or were interpreted correctly that salvation was a relative and fleeting goal, then no human can be sure in confidence of their rebirth and spiritual fate and the conversion process becomes meaningless. Paul and others would never have spoken of the process of maturing or converting to perfection. What would be the point?!

Paul to the Corinthians speaks of this maturing or converting process as a ‘personal’ race (I Corinth 9:24). Paul used this analogy of a race with a single prize to be one by just one person. He is NOT saying this is the case with those that are ‘saved’ that ONLY ONE saved and perfected person will actually be converted and obtain salvation. That would be nonsense and a cruel hoax by God. Paul even says in this non-spiritual race analogy that there is only ONE winner (gaining a corruptible crown) (I Corinth 9:25).

NO, Paul said to ‘run’ LIKE that actual non-spiritual race, as everyone on the track that is now ‘saved’ and it now being converted at different individual stages to spiritual perfection. Each one will be at a specific maturity or conversion level when they die.

It is our own race with ourselves with God as we would want to press forward to maturity and become as Christ. Paul is not speaking of having to win this ‘race’ over others. That would make no sense as I just pointed out.

You see Paul had high standards and expectations for himself in his relationship with God. He realized that it we do not dally around on the (spiritual walk) track we are less likely to stumble and fall, or even wander off the track. We are to be firm with our spiritual goals and stick to them, with conviction. Building up spiritual endurance and staying-power along the way. When Paul speaks of finishing the course or race, it is not the same for everyone. There is NO actual SET spiritual finish line. Paul sees some folks as finishing the race off the track and even wandering off it, although he does not want that to happen as we read into his words. Again, this has nothing to do with losing or regaining eternal life/ salvation or not. That would be another cruel hoax.

Paul sees himself as finishing ‘dead’ on the race track as a mature follower with a strong character as Christ. I would suspect that Paul’s conversion was over 90 % complete in his lifetime. Others maybe be only 10 per cent completed. Mine today maybe 40-50 percent converted to Christ; I’ve had a few stumbles and off-track quests over time that cost me precious time and spiritual energy with some disciplinary actions from my Father along the way.

I and all reborn folks still have the SAME Salvation for the next life and beyond even those some stumble and fall more than others, or some just stay as spiritual infants and stop on the track altogether without moving forward - we are all BEING converted and we all have the SAME salvation from God. We are ALL OVERCOMERS and WINNERS just by being on the track to perfection, in Christ.

Comments of course welcome...

Bless you,

APAK

I sometime's scroll down to see how long a read might be, as I did with this one!! Then I started to go ahead and read your Post. WOW I think you could have made it 3 time's longer, It captured my attention, and Gave Me real Joy, for there are time's when I feel I am not measuring up!
This is probably the most uplifting Statement I have read for Me in Quite some time! THANK YOU, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU!

Sincerely Glenn! you are a Blessing!

 

[Philip James]

I smell a lot of burning!!!!

Indeed..

Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?

We know the one who said: "Vengeance is mine; I will repay," and again: "The Lord will judge his people."

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[APAK]

I sometime's scroll down to see how long a read might be, as I did with this one!! Then I started to go ahead and read your Post. WOW I think you could have made it 3 time's longer, It captured my attention, and Gave Me real Joy, for there are time's when I feel I am not measuring up!
This is probably the most uplifting Statement I have read for Me in Quite some time! THANK YOU, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU!

Sincerely Glenn! you are a Blessing!

I'm glad it touched your heart..Bless you

 

[Taken]

John was writing to the believers that had been saved.. so it does apply to you as those things were written unto us so that our joy may be full.

And when ones JOY is accomplished, is such a person still waiting that his Joy "may" be full?

1 John 1:1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

The "US" in these verses has two applicabiities of manifestation that apply TO the "apostle teachers".

1) They SAW the Lord bodily with their eyes.
I haven't.

2) They Have a quickened spirit and Have a personal spiritual connection with the Lords Spirit and their spirit.
This is the connection they are preaching, that they desire a man MAY have a fullness of Joy, by them Also having a personal spiritual manifestation of the Lord IN them.
This has already been accomplished in me.

It's is already accomplished, fulfilled. They are speaking to men that this has not yet been accomplished.

So, no, this no longer applies to me.

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

Again, they are speaking to men of an expectation for them that the "teachers" desire MAY be accomplished IN The listeners.

Again, it does not apply to me.
It is already accomplished.
They are not speaking to me, saying they desire my joy to be filled, when is already is.

Your emphasis on the converted man not being able to sin is in denial of the the Book of 1 John.

To be Clear, since you apparently missed it...
I am not in denial of Scripture.
You making such a claim FOR ME, is simply your False testimony Against me, and NOT appreciated, nor glorifying to God.

All day long you can make False accusations based ON YOUR attempt to decide what YOU think "should" apply to me, when it does not.

Jesus is NOT the only one who Fulfilled the Scriptures.
All day long, ANY man WHO fufills what is required TO have a personal relationship With the Lord; The Lord Himself Accomplishes that fulfillment IN Such man.

You implying What the Lord Accomplishes IN a Converted man IS of none effect, must be repeated, can be Undone is false.

While you direct your implications Toward me, it is God you are rejecting.
1 Sam 8:7

Your emphasis on the converted man not being able to go astray from the faith is in denial of the warnings given by Jesus, Paul, Peter, & John.

ANY "unconverted" man who is believing is given a measure of faith from God. And Because that man is NOT converted, such man CAN and many DO, stop believing, DO, stop receiving Faith from God. They are called those who have Fallen from Faith. They and their rejection have Nothing to do with a Converted man .

If there was anything good that you could have done yesterday and have not done it yesterday.... know that James said you have sinned.

WHO was James directed BY Jesus to go preach TO?
Gentiles? Or the LOST Jews?

And what exactly do you mean by DOING GOOD?

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

WHO is "him" ?
A Jew who believed in God?
A Jew who was not serving God?
A Jew whom James was REMINDING, those NOT in CHRIST were still Subject TO the LAW of the JEWS?
And Wasn't the LAW of the Jews accounted as a SIN, according TO their Works?

How does that apply to a Gentile, WHO was never UNDER the Law?

Are you UNDER the Positive and SIN Laws of the Jews?
I'm not.

My "works" did not Convert me, nor do my "works" Keep me Converted. Nor are my Lack of "works" counted against me "as a Sin".

And BTW Jews WHO, did and do, Become Converted, and are "IN" Christ, "They ARE" redeemed from the Consequences of their "Curse/Sin" laws.
Which is to SAY, a Curse Law that had once applied to THEM, no longer applies to them.
Gal 3:13

A Law without force and effect is virtually no law at all.

There is NOT a SIN consequence for NOT doing "works", to any Converted man IN Christ.
Gal 3:13

So by your claim, that may apply to you according to your understanding, However according to the Lords Understanding it does not apply to a Converted man, thus it does not apply to me.

There is no way you are perfect now that you can say that you cannot sin.

Again you attempting to Apply your understanding to me is MOOT.

It is what the Lord proclaims for a Converted man, is By His Understanding of what He has accomplished IN such man.
The perfection of such a man IS NOT according to YOU.
It IS according to the Lord.

I do not claim to BE perfect.

However according to the Lord;
A man WHO is Converted IS Sanctified IN Him.
A man WHO is Sanctified "IS" PERFECTED,
Heb 10:14

specifically Because the man "IS" "IN" Him, and thus "PERFECT-ED" by the Power of God, who IS Christ and Himself Perfected.

If you say that what the apostle John had written does not apply to you in the Book of 1 John, then I would have to wonder if anything in the N.T. does.

Pay attention. I did not dismiss ALL that John said being applicable to me, so don't implied that is what I said.

Use some common sense. If a man is already Converted, the Word of God teaching a man HOW TO Become Converted, IS MOOT, and NOT Applicable to a man Already Converted.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

ah yes, the Uncle Ben's Instant "Conversion..."
(get yoself a plastic Jesus)

 

[Taken]

ah yes, the Uncle Ben's Instant "Conversion..."
(get yoself a plastic Jesus)

It takes man awhile to hear, learn, believe, trust, CHOOSE to commit or not.

His actual act of commitment takes no longer than you committing to any agreement or Vow.

And the Lords acceptance of ones true Heartful commitment is immediate.

Really has nothing with a man~made plastic fake image of Jesus.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

It takes man awhile to hear, learn, believe, trust, CHOOSE to commit or not.

His actual act of commitment takes no longer than you committing to any agreement or Vow.

And the Lords acceptance of ones true Heartful commitment is immediate.

Really has nothing with a man~made plastic fake image of Jesus.

God Bless,
Taken

Jesus had never asked His disciples to make a commitment, oath, vow, or promise to Himself nor to follow Him. He had no confidence in mankind accomplishing such a feat by the deeds of the law.

Since we could not save ourselves as it is not in our power to do so by the flesh, then the same must be said for following Him.

You either live by faith in Him as your Saviour that you are saved simply by having believed in Him or you can never know if you are truly converted when you break that commitment by a sin.

AND..

You either live by faith in Him as your Good Shepherd that He will help you lay aside every weight & sin in running that race to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House with crowns as His crowning achievements upon your head as only He can finish that race... or your commitment to Him will deny Him as being the power in how you had lived in following Him & be found left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

 

[bbyrd009]

His actual act of commitment takes no longer than you committing to any agreement or Vow.

wadr no acts are committed that day, only professions.
Regardless of what tassel-toes may tell you, you cannot accept Christ with your mouth

And the Lords acceptance of ones true Heartful commitment is immediate.

well, to that i would say the Lord's declaration of "twice the son of hell you are" and "seven worse spirits" must also then be immediate, i guess. Whitewashed tombs too i guess

Really has nothing with a man~made plastic fake image of Jesus.

so you say, and for some ppl i believe you are right; i've seen a couple of altar conversions in my life--as in 2--but they are certainly not the norm imo

 

[Taken]

Jesus had never asked His disciples to make a commitment, toath, vow, or promise to Himself nor to follow Him.

What Jesus DID WAS OFFER man a proposal, as I have already said. Jesus set the Standard, Jesus make the offer according to His Pleasure. Jesus provided a WAY for men to Accept His offer, as I have already said.

A man WHO chooses to heartfully accept His Offer ARE agreeing with His terms.

It is a mans Choice to Elect God, to Choose God, to make a commitment, oath, vow, or by whatever word you want to call it that signifies an agreement has been effected.

He had no confidence in mankind accomplishing such a feat by the deeds of the law.

And what did the Lord do about THAT? Already covered that;
The Lord provides a man WILLING TO "HEAR' and LEARN" with a measure of FAITH.

Since we could not save ourselves as it is not in our power to do so by the flesh, then the same must be said for following Him.

Not the same.
Your natural old man flesh is controlled by your old man flesh.
A man "following" is lead by FAITH, which has nothing to do with a mans POWER, it is the Lords Power giving a man FAITH.

Be an unconverted man, and your measure of FAITH is small.
Continue following, and your FAITH increases.
Stop following, and your FAITH falls to the wayside.

Be a Converted man, and your measure of FAITH is INCREASED to FULNESS and KEPT in FULNESS "BY" the indwelling power of God.

A Converted man NO LONGER, by his own power controls his FAITH....the Lord does.

You are presenting implications that you never learned EXACTALY What it means to MAKE a Commitment to the Lord....and leaning on an implication a Commitment is not required or effective.

You either live by faith in Him as your Saviour that you are saved simply by having believed in Him or you can never know if you are truly converted when you break that commitment by a sin.

That apparently is what you believe. However I believe what the Lord teaches.
Pertaining to the Conversion of a man, THE OLD MAN IS DEAD!
THE OLD MANS SINS are FORGIVEN, COVERED, REMEMBERED NO MORE. THE OLD MAN IS WASHED, SANCTIFIED, PERFECTED, JUSTIFIED, KEPT IN CHRIST'S PERFECTION,
The NEW MAN, SINS NO MORE!
The NEW MAN LIVES IN CHIRST!

AND..

You either live by faith in Him as your Good Shepherd

No kidding.

that He will help you lay aside every weight & sin

And, You appear to be preaching the Lord NEVER SUCCEEDS in laying aside a mans SIN. Since you claim A Converted NEW man continues to SIN.

in running that race to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House with crowns as His crowning achievements upon your head as only He can finish that race... or your commitment to Him will deny Him as being the power in how you had lived in following Him & be found left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

You sound like a Wait and See kind of person.

I am a Believe and Trust kind of person that the Lord is faithful, and what He accomplishes IS accomplish-ED, whether or not I can SEE it with my natural eyes. The Lord has provided me a WAY to SEE the effects of His accomplish-MENTS IN ME.

God Bless,
Taken