If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[BreadOfLife]

No BOL, the wolves never came to faith to begin with. They were always non believers. Yes, it does hurt the believer to sin, that is what Godly sorrow is. Nonbelievers do not obtain Godly sorrow. 2Co 7:10. God bless.

Actually - that is false.

They WERE believers - they simply didn't surrender and obey.
They didn't DO God's will.

They cast out demons in Christ's name BECAUSE they believed.
HOWEVER, as I have been telling you for months now - belief is NOT enough. Even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19).

 

[Heb 13:8]

Actually - that is false.

They WERE believers - they simply didn't surrender and obey.
They didn't DO God's will.

They cast out demons in Christ's name BECAUSE they believed.
HOWEVER, as I have been telling you for months now - belief is NOT enough. Even the DEMONS believe (James 2:19).

If they were believers then why weren't they in the kingdom to begin with?

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

 

[bbyrd009]

Our sins are paid for at the cross bbyrd

ok Heb, as long as we understand that Jesus did not die for your sins--in the manner we are taught at least--and forgiveness never saved anyone. I know that is hard to reconcile, so i'll put it another way, God did not need Jesus to come and sacrifice Himself so that you would somehow then be acceptable to Him. i have another truthful way to express this that i guess you also will not like, i'll come post it when i remember it, and i have Scripture for all this that imo one must address if they are ever to come to know Christ.

i mean for "believers" of course, non-believers are not interested in reading any verification in a Book, and are free to come to know Christ by other Names, but they will still verify the Scriptures even if they don't know or care about them imo. Believers want it in print, so they get it in print, to their condemnation, mostly, believe it or not; see, a nonbeliever who finds Christ would agree with the Scriptures i could post that point to truth, but a believer cannot even see them!

i know none of the last para makes any sense to...prolly anyone, sorry about that, maybe best to just address and ignore it for now. The point being that if you consider yourself a People of the Book, the Book is going to be your wings, or your anchor

 

[bbyrd009]

"Works" come as a RESULT of SALVATION

No, they come as a result of sanctification and discipline.

fwiw i would look at works differently, lost people do works too, everyone does work, work is what we do, drawing a breath is work, as is holding your breath. Works are just actions; aren't they?

 

[Triumph1300]

i would look at works differently

So does God.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok Heb, as long as we understand that Jesus did not die for your sins--in the manner we are taught at least--and forgiveness never saved anyone. I know that is hard to reconcile, so i'll put it another way, God did not need Jesus to come and sacrifice Himself so that you would somehow then be acceptable to Him. i have another truthful way to express this that i guess you also will not like, i'll come post it when i remember it, and i have Scripture for all this that imo one must address if they are ever to come to know Christ.

i mean for "believers" of course, non-believers are not interested in reading any verification in a Book, and are free to come to know Christ by other Names, but they will still verify the Scriptures even if they don't know or care about them imo. Believers want it in print, so they get it in print, to their condemnation, mostly, believe it or not; see, a nonbeliever who finds Christ would agree with the Scriptures i could post that point to truth, but a believer cannot even see them!

i know none of the last para makes any sense to...prolly anyone, sorry about that, maybe best to just address and ignore it for now. The point being that if you consider yourself a People of the Book, the Book is going to be your wings, or your anchor

we deny our birthright, and trade the truth for a dream about some life after we have died, i call it the dream of living in Aasgard with Zeus or something like that, but Scripture puts it a little diff, something about trading the truth for...something that isn't coming to mind at the moment, but there is a verse for this, that is talking about believers, it is believers that do this

 

[bbyrd009]

21For though they knew God,

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie

13And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven.

 

[Marymog]

When Papal reign began is when the drought began. The Word of God was quickly replaced with "the word of the pope".

Why do you continue to condemn Luther for a mistake which he later corrected? It must have been tough living in your house.

No condemnation from me. Just questioning his authority.

Was it the Holy Ghost who gave Luther the authority to remove the NT books? If the Holy Ghost gave him authority to remove the OT book's who gave The Church the authority to include them?

Was it Luther who was confused or the Holy Spirit?

BTW....Luther didn't correct it. He just didn't have the support form his fellow Reformers so he backed down. Maybe his fellow Reformers were guided by the Holy Spirit and Luther wasn't??

Mary

 

[Marymog]

they don't call it the Dark Ages for nothing, Mary.

LOL...that is not an answer. That is a statement....

 

[Phoneman777]

No condemnation from me. Just questioning his authority.

Was it the Holy Ghost who gave Luther the authority to remove the NT books?

You mean books that should never have been there? Yes.

If the Holy Ghost gave him authority to remove the OT book's who gave The Church the authority to include them?

The Church in Rome has never had any authority from God - it is the Protestant church that can trace its roots from now back through the Reformation, back through the Dark Ages, and all the way back to Jesus and His followers in Palestine.

Was it Luther who was confused or the Holy Spirit?

The only ones who ended up confused were those like Eck and Tetzel and Moore who attempted to challenge Luther - a champion of the faith who was guided by the Holy Spirit and stood upon the unquestionable authority of the Scriptures. He repeatedly exposed these and many other Catholic leaders as victims of their own convoluted thinking.

BTW....Luther didn't correct it. He just didn't have the support form his fellow Reformers so he backed down. Maybe his fellow Reformers were guided by the Holy Spirit and Luther wasn't??

The only question is by the time Luther died, had he changed his mind about getting rid of them and accepted them? Of course he did, unlike the Papacy that is STILL wallowing in the same false, unBiblical ideas, beliefs, dogmas, doctrines, etc. that is has since its inception in 538 A.D.

 

[Enoch111]

Of course he did, unlike the Papacy that is STILL wallowing in the same false, unBiblical ideas, beliefs, dogmas, doctrines, etc. that is has since its inception in 538 A.D.

Well if they gave that up, the whole house of cards would come tumbling down.

 

[bbyrd009]

LOL...that is not an answer. That is a statement....

ah, well of course you will have a diff view of how the Dark Ages came about, being a Catholic, and i am not interested in making the RCC the scapegoat there per se, as after all that was just ppl doing what ppl do. But imo the statement is a good answer. How do you suppose the Dark Ages culminated?

 

[Taken]

IF... we Protestants Truly hated Catholics<-- OP

A Catholic could Quote a Protestant Saying So and Respond to the Protestant...

Umpteen Threads and Posts.....
And have Not ONCE read Any Protestant saying such a Thing or a Catholic Quoting a Protestant saying such a Thing....

QUESTION....

Why are Protestants attempting to Defend themselves To "others"...For Claims "others" are making "For Them"?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Why are Protestants attempting to Defend themselves To "others"...For Claims "others" are making "For Them"?

Just another unnecessary thread.

 

[Triumph1300]

Just another unnecessary thread.

Yes, well, that's about 50% of the threads.

 

[Taken]

Just another unnecessary thread.

The Threads could be beneficial for men to give their views on what they believe...
AND WHY.

However the WHY simply is lamblasted since finger pointing and name calling is apparently all that is necessary to make one mans view correct and the others wrong.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The Calvin god creates people just to send them to hell.
Your double predestination stinks.
+...
The anonymous psalmist in 112:5 refers to a good man (Hebrew, tob), as does the book of Proverbs repeatedly (11:23, 12:2, 13:22, 14:14, 19), using the same word, tob, which appears in Psalm 14:2-3. References to righteous men are innumerable (e.g., Job 17:9; 22:19; Ps 5:12; 32:11; 34:15; 37:16, 32; Mt 9:13; 13:17; 25:37, 46; Rom 5:19; Heb 11:4; Jas 5;16; 1 Pet 3:12; 4:18; etc., etc.).

Jewish idiom and hyperbole of this sort appears in many other similar passages. For example, Jesus says:

Luke 18:19 No one is good but God alone. (cf. Mt 19:17)

Yet He also said:

Matthew 12:35 The good person brings good things out of a good treasure.… (cf. 5:45; 7:17-20; 22:10)

Jesus is drawing a strong contrast between our righteousness and God’s, but He doesn’t deny that we can be “good” in a lesser sense. Psalm 53:1-3 provides a similar example, almost identical to Psalm 14. Again, we see other proximate Psalms refer to the “righteous” or “godly” (e.g., 52:1, 6, 9; 53:4; 55:22; 58:10-11).

Romans 3:11 states, “no one seeks for God,” and in Psalms 14:2, God looks “to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God.” This is again hyperbolic language, and we know this because many passages teach us that many men did seek after God (e.g., Deut 4:29; 1 Chr 16:10-11; 22:19; 2 Chr 11:16; 15:12-13; 30:19; Ps 34:10; 69:32; Prov 28:5; Is 51:1; 55:6; Jer 50:4; Hos 3:5; Amos 5:6; Zeph 2:3; Zech 8:21-22; Acts 17:27).

Quite obviously, then, it is not the case that “no one” whatsoever seeks God. Passages that seem to be utterly sweeping need to be understood in terms of literary genre, immediate context, and in light of other relevant and related Bible verses.
The Bible is God’s inspired and infallible Word. It is completely self-consistent and always harmonious with itself. But Calvin’s prior theological system that he brings to Scripture would cause it to massively self-contradict. Since we believe in faith that this isn’t possible, false tenets of Calvin’s system need to be discarded, in cases where it causes this unworthy result.

The above illustrative example shows how Calvin’s exegetical reasoning fails, and does violence to Holy Scripture, rightly understood. Once again, the Catholic understanding is demonstrated to be far more in line with the Bible.

Is your only purpose to make catholicism look good?
You could have left that out and made God look good instead.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well if they gave that up, the whole house of cards would come tumbling down.

Amen

 

[Philip James]

- it is the Protestant church that can trace its roots from now back through the Reformation, back through the Dark Ages, and all the way back to Jesus and His followers in Palestine.

Please demonstrate that.

Pax!

 

[Naomi25]

Here's the thing Naomi.
Either Grams is lying - or she never belonged to the Catholic Church. Let me explain.

She claims that she left the Catholic Church THIRTY years ago and ALL of the masses were celebrated in LATIN. The Novus Order (Ordinary form) of the Mass has been celebrated in the VERNACULAR for over FIFTY YEARS now. He math simply doe NOT add up.

As a matter of fact - unless she belonged to a renegade, dissident pseudo-Catholic faction - a licit Latin masses were pretty hard to find in 1988 - let alone the "only" game in town.

I don't harbor any "bitterness" towards people who speak against the Catholic Church - if that is their opinion.
HOWEVER, when they attempt to pass those opinions off as "facts" - then I have a bone to pic with them . . .

Well, I can understand, and respect, your desire and right to stand up for the facts. Any one of us here would do the same for our beliefs and understandings.
But I do have to wonder how you can claim to know what went on inside every single Catholic Church building. I surely don't know much about the RCC...that I admit to freely. But I can see quite plainly where I live that there are some Catholic Priests in Australia who are trying to claim we need to embrace the homosexual movement, while others don't. There are some Priest's who happily renounce any form of sexual abuse and call it a sin that can and must be dealt with by the law as well as the Church, where you have others who still refuse to inform the authorities even if they know children are being abused; choosing to "keep it in the church". Now...I'm not trying to comment on the state of the abuse, or if there is more or less in the RCC or protestant Church, I am only using those two examples because they are two very visible ones where different Priests believe and teach within their building different things to what, I would suspect, Rome, holds as doctrine. We have similar issues within Protestantism...just saying a church is "Baptist" does not guarantee every Baptist Pastor teaches and believes the exact same thing.

So, again...I see that perhaps you are not allowing for the very real likelihood that Grams IS being truthful, about HER experience. You can both be right, really. Your claims to what the broad RCC teaches are probably correct. But that does not necessarily mean you have to assume, and accuse, someone of lying. At least not initially. As Christians, shouldn't we give a little grace to people until we know more? If you thought she was mistaken, ask questions to clarify. When you immediately disdain and call people out, you do a disservice to your denomination, and to Christians in general. We may follow Christ, but we don't have his ability to know everything about everyone. Don't you think we should seek the truth with his love and graciousness?