The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Paul Christensen]

To redeem mankind from the curse ..
...He died at the will of God..."the Lamb slain from before the creation of the world."
Laid down His life...

Where did the curse come from?

 

[Joseph77]

We desire also for you, e.g., to receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your soul.
We desire also for you, e.g. to be a doer of the word, and not a hearer only, deceiving yourself.

See this in English?

We do desire for you e.g. to receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save you soul ....

This is TRUE, especially if you have ALREADY received with meekness the implanted word, AND been saved - the word is able to save you soul...

We ALL should be DOERS of the WORD, not hearers only.... EVEN IF we already are.

 

[Joseph77]

Thus also, in James, God never indicates the believers are unbelievers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD'S WORD !?

I would expect positively you do.

GOD'S WORD says they are BROTHERS and SISTERS, thus , WHY would you EVER contradict God's Word ?

You apparently were taught some time in the past, OR assumed, that you could figure it out better than what God Says ? Otherwise, why

would you call those people God's Word calls BROTHERS and SISTERS (to JAMES the APOSTLE)
unbelievers !?

Did the grammer/ English structure, / verbs/ adjectives/ confuse you in the book of James ? It is from the INSPIRATION of GOD, and understood in the Hebrew / Jewish groups without any such thought as you posted against them .....

Ok you can’t answer

I am done, good day sire

when you can tell me how a person who still needs the word to be saved and how a person can be saved with no faith, and the other question I asked. We can talk

until then, your just playing games, and it’s rude, and will not be tolorated at least by me

 

[Joseph77]

In other words, you choose not to believe what God says in the book of James,
and
just assume or believed what you were taught in error.


As long as you trust whoever taught you the errors, not even God will change your mind.

Ok you can’t answer

I am done, good day sire

when you can tell me how a person who still needs the word to be saved and how a person can be saved with no faith, and the other question I asked. We can talk

until then, your just playing games, and it’s rude, and will not be tolorated at least by me

 

[Joseph77]

IF you decide you believe God's Word is TRUTH,
and want to "parse" it out so you can understand what you don't understand (as you have stated - you don't understand how they can be believers, how they can be brothers and sisters, even though GOD SAYS DIRECTLY THEY ARE,
well,
it is not difficult to learn , if you are willing.... and we can proceed if you decide you are willing to trust what God's Word says,
instead of what someone else taught you in error )

 

[Helen]

Where did the curse come from?

If you don't know the answer to these questions that you keep asking me, you are in a sad state in your belief system.
These are the basics

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In other words, you choose not to believe what God says in the book of James,
and
just assume or believed what you were taught in error.


As long as you trust whoever taught you the errors, not even God will change your mind.

Are you a member of christian chat also you keep,saying we when speaking of yourself

and ps. If you knew gods word, you would not be scared to answer my questions, because if you were right, you would use my questions and prove to me that I was wrong, and not run from them

 

[Joseph77]

Are you a member of christian chat also you keep,saying we when speaking of yourself

and ps. If you knew gods word, you would not be scared to answer my questions, because if you were right, you would use my questions and prove to me that I was wrong, and not run from them

We, as in Scripture, not as if in chat room anywhere.
We, as you might find when reading Scripture, where it is written "we" referring to the Ekklesia in proper context.

Which question do you want answered more fully ? Are you willing to believe that in James the brothers and sisters are saved? If you are not willing to believe, then not even God will change your mind.

 

[Joseph77]

you would use my questions and prove to me that I was wrong, and not run from them

Noted.
If you are not willing though, then there is no proof sufficient, not even if , as happened, someone rose from the dead to let you know.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We, as in Scripture, not as if in chat room anywhere.
We, as you might find when reading Scripture, where it is written "we" referring to the Ekklesia in proper context.

Which question do you want answered more fully ? Are you willing to believe that in James the brothers and sisters are saved? If you are not willing to believe, then not even God will change your mind.

There you go stalling again.

you know what questions I asked.

I am willing for you to prove to me they are saved by showing me where I was wrong in my questions

but I am not willing fr you to sit here and mock me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Noted.
If you are not willing though, then there is no proof sufficient, not even if , as happened, someone rose from the dead to let you know.

I am willing

If I was not willing I would not ask.

let’s face it, your the one not willing

 

[Joseph77]

I am willing

If I was not willing I would not ask.

let’s face it, your the one not willing

COOL, oops, no.... if you think that, (added/last part), then you are mistaken.

We can continue, albeit slowly, as the sources, references, etc, are not at my fingertips.

The simple ones. The truthful ones. As James is not that difficult to understand, God Willing.

 

[Joseph77]

I am willing for you to prove to me they are saved by showing me where I was wrong in my questions

Honestly - your questions were , as you posted, based on false assumptions. I'll go back now and quote them, God Willing. Right now.

 

[Paul Christensen]

If you don't know the answer to these questions that you keep asking me, you are in a sad state in your belief system.
These are the basics

I was testing you if you could tell me. I know where the curse came from but I just wanted to hear it from you. Not judging you in any way or questioning your faith at all. But I am just interested in what people think about why Jesus died on the cross for us.

The minister in my Union church is liberal, and he believes it is to make us better human beings, and to complete God's creation in us. He doesn't believe in a literal Adam and Eve.

It seems that people on this forum seem not to like being asked questions like this. I wonder why? There is no threat, or so I think, in it. It is the same when I ask someone on the forum whether they think they are good. They seems to avoid answering that question like the plague! Is it, maybe, that they might discover that they are not as good as they think they are, and that is a threat somehow to their faith?

What do you think?

 

[Dcopymope]

I was testing you if you could tell me. I know where the curse came from but I just wanted to hear it from you. Not judging you in any way or questioning your faith at all. But I am just interested in what people think about why Jesus died on the cross for us.

The minister in my Union church is liberal, and he believes it is to make us better human beings, and to complete God's creation in us. He doesn't believe in a literal Adam and Eve.

It seems that people on this forum seem not to like being asked questions like this. I wonder why? There is no threat, or so I think, in it. It is the same when I ask someone on the forum whether they think they are good. They seems to avoid answering that question like the plague! Is it, maybe, that they might discover that they are not as good as they think they are, and that is a threat somehow to their faith?

What do you think?

I actually found your question about where the curse came from to be quite odd. What did you mean exactly by "where" it came from? What exactly are you asking?

 

[Joseph77]

James 1: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

why would he be telling people to receive a word which could save them, if they were already saved? And why would he be calling them deceived?

(this looks too crowded to deal with properly) But here goes: The word which could save you, if you already received it, would it still save you ? yes.
Repeating what saves us is not only not a sin, nor wrong, but as the Apostle Paul (I think) says , is a good thing to repeat - a safeguard as he says.
Also, this is simply a Hebrew/Jewish way of thinking and writing - revealed much better when read in Hebrew, and when explained by Hebrews,
but not required Hebrews nor Jews to give the explanation. (i.e. it can be understood by anyone, when God is well pleased to reveal it).
More with references later, if needed, God willing.
End of question one.
==========================================================================================

james 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Why would he be asking people if their faith apart from works could be saved, if there was no one there like that
and why would he be calling saved people foolish, Because they had mere belief only, Yet their claimed dead faith was dead because they had no works?

What does it profit in a forum, if unbelievers are allowed to post daily in unbelief, things contrary to truth ? Opposed to Scripture ?
But if the truth can be written, and written again, as a reminder to those who believe, that is good.
As noted above, reminding one another is a safeguard, not a sin, and is often done in Scripture, by God's Revelation.
When others are trying to deceive the assembly, stating the truth repeatedly, as the truth is stated in James 2:14 here, is good and helpful and helping to guard against the false teachers who are trying to deceive the brothers and the sisters JAMES is writing to.
Why 'foolish'?
Why did JESUS call His Own disciples "stupid" at times, "satan" at times (as if), and "oh you of little faith" at times ?
So many people are foolish today, it is sometimes difficult to find anyone not foolish.
(foolish for Christ IS GOOD, when it is as written and as revealed by God through Jesus in Scripture)
More with references later (might be a day or two), if needed, God willing.
End of question two, for now.
=========================================================================

4 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

since when are enemies of God called believers?

How fast, how soon, after someone becomes a brother or sister in Christ Jesus do they no longer have any wrong desires in them ?
How long does it take before there is no more any foolishness of the flesh in them ?

How long does it take someone in Christ Jesus to be continually full of righteousness, peace and joy , with no stumbling, no errors, day after day ?

How long does it take brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus to ask in faith, knowing that they receive whatever they ask for ? (and they drop it - not asking again, not at all worried nor even thinking about it)

VERY IMPORTANT: How long does it take for them to stop being involved with friendship with the world, which as written is enmity with God ?
How long does it take for them to not even desire to be a friend of the world, since being a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God ?

How long does the "Spirit who dwells in us yearn jealously" ?? --- See? The process, or the life of Jesus, or the purification, in all these things may take decades (we hope - since some people have been for decades "saved", and not seen much if anything of all of this) .....

How many people still ask for things, asking for themselves, to get something ? (for their own 'pleasures') .....

As noted in another thread about an hour ago, it is painful, and a narrow path, that few ever find - yet it is fully described in Scripture,

including in James.
End of question three.......
================================================ for now......

 

[Paul Christensen]

I actually found your question about where the curse came from to be quite odd. What did you mean exactly by "where" it came from? What exactly are you asking?

Well, the curse had to come from somewhere. It had to originate at some point in man's history. There was a time when there was no curse on mankind, and then there was. So where did that curse come from and why? (I actually know, but I am interested in your answer).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

(this looks too crowded to deal with properly) But here goes: The word which could save you, if you already received it, would it still save you ? yes.
Repeating what saves us is not only not a sin, nor wrong, but as the Apostle Paul (I think) says , is a good thing to repeat - a safeguard as he says.
Also, this is simply a Hebrew/Jewish way of thinking and writing - revealed much better when read in Hebrew, and when explained by Hebrews,
but not required Hebrews nor Jews to give the explanation. (i.e. it can be understood by anyone, when God is well pleased to reveal it).
More with references later, if needed, God willing.
End of question one.
==========================================================================================

What does it profit in a forum, if unbelievers are allowed to post daily in unbelief, things contrary to truth ? Opposed to Scripture ?
But if the truth can be written, and written again, as a reminder to those who believe, that is good.
As noted above, reminding one another is a safeguard, not a sin, and is often done in Scripture, by God's Revelation.
When others are trying to deceive the assembly, stating the truth repeatedly, as the truth is stated in James 2:14 here, is good and helpful and helping to guard against the false teachers who are trying to deceive the brothers and the sisters JAMES is writing to.
Why 'foolish'?
Why did JESUS call His Own disciples "stupid" at times, "satan" at times (as if), and "oh you of little faith" at times ?
So many people are foolish today, it is sometimes difficult to find anyone not foolish.
(foolish for Christ IS GOOD, when it is as written and as revealed by God through Jesus in Scripture)
More with references later (might be a day or two), if needed, God willing.
End of question two, for now.
=========================================================================


How fast, how soon, after someone becomes a brother or sister in Christ Jesus do they no longer have any wrong desires in them ?
How long does it take before there is no more any foolishness of the flesh in them ?

How long does it take someone in Christ Jesus to be continually full of righteousness, peace and joy , with no stumbling, no errors, day after day ?

How long does it take brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus to ask in faith, knowing that they receive whatever they ask for ? (and they drop it - not asking again, not at all worried nor even thinking about it)

VERY IMPORTANT: How long does it take for them to stop being involved with friendship with the world, which as written is enmity with God ?
How long does it take for them to not even desire to be a friend of the world, since being a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God ?

How long does the "Spirit who dwells in us yearn jealously" ?? --- See? The process, or the life of Jesus, or the purification, in all these things may take decades (we hope - since some people have been for decades "saved", and not seen much if anything of all of this) .....

How many people still ask for things, asking for themselves, to get something ? (for their own 'pleasures') .....

As noted in another thread about an hour ago, it is painful, and a narrow path, that few ever find - yet it is fully described in Scripture,

including in James.
End of question three.......
================================================ for now......

Thanks for your responses

I do not agree with any of them,

but thank you

I will continue to interpret James the way I do. Because there is no other way to interpret James

if these are brothers and sisters, then something is seriously wrong

once again, when a pastor speaks in a church service, he calls them all brothers and sisters

yet he teaches as if some are not brothers and sisters, especially when he gives the call at the end of a message for people who are not saved to recieved Christ

Paul,did the same, as did James, spas have every pastor I have ever heard

maybe your pastor does not do this? If he does not, I would be worried

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, the curse had to come from somewhere. It had to originate at some point in man's history. There was a time when there was no curse on mankind, and then there was. So where did that curse come from and why? (I actually know, but I am interested in your answer).

Well by "curse", do you mean the curse of physical death, spiritual death? Are you referring to the curse God put on the earth itself? What exactly do you mean "curse"?