Dead faith.

[justbyfaith]

Ummmmmm, that's what you said last time.

I'll leave you alone as well - until you lie about the Church again.
Then I'll expose you . . .

Unfortunately for me, the love of Christ compels me to continue to speak with you...even though I know that in doing so I will be subjecting myself to more abuse.

 

[Illuminator]

You have never seen me call his church a whore or harlot either.

I have refrained from doing so because it is not my ministry to deal primarily with Catholicism.

But if the subject comes up, of course I will tout the regular Protestant line...

That Rome does in fact have seven hills and that Revelation 17 speaks of the religious system that is based in Rome.

I will probably not go so far as to say, directly, that the Catholic Church is the whore spoken of in the book of Revelation.

Because I care about the salvation of Catholics; and therefore I am not anti-Catholic in the slightest.

I may be considered to be anti-Catholicism.

I'm certain that @BreadOfLife will accuse me of being a liar again...but I suppose that this is par for the course.

tbh it makes me feel like I don't even want to bother with you...maybe I should just let you travel headlong into the lake of fire.

Because I know that some (if not all) Catholics believe the lie of Mary being co-redemptress; and that this lie is damning to hell...because it means that your average Catholic will not place their faith wholly in what Christ has done for them on the Cross: and to do so is the only way to be saved.

You may be the kind of Catholic that doesn't believe the Catholic doctrine of Mary as co-redeemer...well, good for you! You need to go and minister to your Catholic brothers and sisters that this is a lie from the pit of hell that will place them smack-dab in the middle of hell.

You seem to think that we are sitting around thinking about what lies to tell about the Catholic Church.

This is not the case.

We who know that the Catholic Church is not conducive to salvation in its adherents for the most part, are attempting to expose the lies that the Catholic Church has told to its parishioners as a matter of doctrine, in order that they might be saved.

It is a matter of public record that the Catholic Church's official doctrine is of Mary as co-redeemer; but I wouldn't be surprised if @BreadOfLife came out as saying that this is also a lie.

It is not. It is a matter of public record.

And, since it is so damning (since it takes away from the efficiency of the sacrifice of Christ Himself and divides the faith of the Catholic so that they do not trust wholly in that which alone can save them) we seek to expose this as a lie.

It is not that we are against Catholics. We are for Catholics; we want them to be saved.

Typical anti-Catholic response. The catholicity of Jesus and the Apostles and ALL the Christian world is biblically and historically proven using a "Bible Alone" premise. It destroys your rigidly held bias that 1st century Christians were not Catholic in name, practice and belief. I demonstrated with verifiable evidence that the Baptist myths about Constantine are illogical, stupid and absurd. Running to derail the truth with Marian terms you refuse to understand is standard anti-Catholic methodology, like using fig leaves to cover nakedness. Throw in the rabid whoreDUHbabble-on psychosis for good measure. If making rabbit holes were an Olympic event, you would win the gold medal. You are not being abused, you are being corrected, which requires a certain amount of humility to accept, a virtue antithetical to pride.

 

[justbyfaith]

I leave you to your faith.

If you will refuse to believe wholly and completely in what Jesus did for you on the Cross, you will not be saved.

This means that if you add the concept of Mary as co-redeemer, you will not be saved.

You can take it or leave it.

But I warn you that leaving it means that you will be consigned to an eternal hell.

You are not being abused, you are being corrected.

Not to mention, you deny the truth of the matter; which is that as a catholic, you believe that you are in fact saved by works and not by faith alone; otherwise you would be a Protestant. For that was the primary contention that Luther had in his day...that the Catholic doctrine was that of working for salvation. (And he contended for faith alone for salvation.) So either the Catholics still believe in that or else they changed their doctrine to fit more closely to what Protestants believe...which would be an admission of error.

 

[Illuminator]

Go for it.
I believe that the fact that you haven't yet responded to my last two posts speaks volumes about the fact that you know that I am not speaking lies concerning what I have said in them.

I responded (it's called "discussion") and you ran from it. I suggest you hard-copy a print of posts #120, 121 and 132 and have your pastor show you where I have been unreasonable. Hopefully, he (or her) didn't get his/her minister license by sending a minimal fee to the government to do legal weddings. Better still, give me your pastors email address, if you have a pastor. His email address is a matter of public record.

 

[Illuminator]

...For that was the primary contention that Luther had in his day...that the Catholic doctrine was that of working for salvation...

If 5 exposures of this lie isn't enough, 6 won't do much good either.

​

 

[justbyfaith]

5. The reason why Emperor Constantine called the Council of Nicaea was to resolve the controversy over Arius’ teaching that Christ Jesus was not consubstantial with God the Father. (he could not do this without the Pope)

Who was the Pope at the time of Constantine? If Constantine was not the first Pope, you should be able to answer this question; as it would be the perfect refutation of the contention. We know that it was not Athanasius.

I believe that Constantine was the one who "married" the Catholic Church to the Roman Empire. Before him, the Christians were persecuted by Rome; but after him, Christianity became defined by Roman things. Pagan gods in the form of idols were transformed into statures of saints in the thinking of the Roman people. Compromise became rampant in order to cater to the Roman and worldly concepts; in things such as Christmas being celebrated on the same day as a holiday that was previously celebrated by pagan Rome. And many other things like this.

such as the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist,

The "Jesus cookie".

 

[justbyfaith]

If 5 exposures of this lie isn't enough, 6 won't do much good either.

You cannot expose it as a lie; because it is no lie.

I repeat:

Not to mention, you deny the truth of the matter; which is that as a catholic, you believe that you are in fact saved by works and not by faith alone; otherwise you would be a Protestant. For that was the primary contention that Luther had in his day...that the Catholic doctrine was that of working for salvation. (And he contended for faith alone for salvation.) So either the Catholics still believe in that or else they changed their doctrine to fit more closely to what Protestants believe...which would be an admission of error.

 

[Illuminator]

Who was the Pope at the time of Constantine? If Constantine was not the first Pope, you should be able to answer this question; as it would be the perfect refutation of the contention. We know that it was not Athanasius.

We know it was Pope St. Sylvester I (314-335)
He was to sick to make the journey to Nicae so he sent 2 legal delegates with his full authority. The Pope can extend his authority because he is the Pope. It is IMPOSSIBLE to hold an ecumenical council without papal sanction. It's never happened.

I believe that Constantine was the one who "married" the Catholic Church to the Roman Empire. Before him, the Christians were persecuted by Rome; but after him, Christianity became defined by Roman things. Pagan gods in the form of idols were transformed into statures of saints in the thinking of the Roman people. Compromise became rampant in order to cater to the Roman and worldly concepts; in things such as Christmas being celebrated on the same day as a holiday that was previously celebrated by pagan Rome. And many other things like this.

That is opinion that contradicts historical facts. The same old "pagan influence fallacy" rears its ugly head. This FALLACY fails 4 logical questions that has been posted on this board at least 25 times. Many people attempt to discredit a non-pagan religion, belief, or practice by making the charge that it has been influenced by paganism. This fallacy is often committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews. Pagan Influence Fallacy
26 times? take the blinders off

The "Jesus cookie".

This is where the mockery must stop.
How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism[
take the blinders off

 

[justbyfaith]

If I were satan, I would place in my own religion something that validates other religions that belong to me.

 

[Illuminator]

If I were satan, I would place in my own religion something that validates other religions that belong to me.

This is where the mockery must stop.
How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism[
take the blinders off. Mockery and desecration is not validation.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is where the mockery must stop.
How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism[
take the blinders off. Mockery and desecration is not validation.

It is validation because if satan is against it, it must be good. The devil knows that this is how people will think about it; so he validates Catholicism by making the religion of satan against it...by the logic that whatever satan is against, must be good.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This is where the mockery must stop.
How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism[
take the blinders off. Mockery and desecration is not validation.

It is validation because if satan is against it, it must be good. The devil knows that this is how people will think about it; so he validates Catholicism by making the religion of satan against it...by the logic that whatever satan is against, must be good.

justbyfaith, you're being silly here.
Your personal salvation is not dependent on Catholics being crazed devil worshipers. A person in Christ has zero need to rely on mockery or misconstrue another person's beliefs, and such is the devil's tactics (like how many times have we seen atheists do a total mockery of the Bible because their position erodes when they approach things factually and with respect?).

You are a Christian. You have zero need to rely on mockery or misconstruing anyone's beliefs.

 

[Joseph77]

Unfortunately for me, the love of Christ compels me to continue to speak with you...even though I know that in doing so I will be subjecting myself to more abuse.

GLORIOUS FOR YOU/US !

The enemy, the blasphemy, the unholy wars, the attackes, the rejections, the martyring, the lies and slanders and posts
against
Jesus
and against all who follow Jesus
are perhaps to be Jewels in our Crowns that we throw down at His Feet when we see HIM on His Return ! HALLELUYAH !
GREAT IS HIS GLORY !

and today HE GUARDS US and protects us from the massive deception worldwide and on the internet and in our cities and schools and tvs.... HE GUARDS and KEEPS US ,
as HE IS A PERFECT (not just GOOD) SHEPHERD GUARDING HIS SHEEP -
we hear HIS VOICE, and FOLLOW HIM<
and will NOT follow anyone else/ another voice....

 

[Illuminator]

"Jesus cookie" is a thoughtless Satanic utterance. But invincible ignorance gets them off the hook.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who was the Pope at the time of Constantine? If Constantine was not the first Pope, you should be able to answer this question; as it would be the perfect refutation of the contention. We know that it was not Athanasius.

St. Sylvester I was Pope when the Council of Nicaea was onvened in 325 AD.

So much for your LIES . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

St. Sylvester I was Pope when the Council of Nicaea was onvened in 325 AD.

So much for your LIES . . .

Dude, I was asking a question...not stating anything as a fact.

Your insistence on calling me a liar indicates a deeper problem.

You are vey likely a liar in many things; and therefore your psyche projects that onto others.

Jesus said,

Mat 7:1, Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2, For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3, And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4, Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5, Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Luk 6:41, And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Luk 6:42, Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith, you're being silly here.
Your personal salvation is not dependent on Catholics being crazed devil worshipers. A person in Christ has zero need to rely on mockery or misconstrue another person's beliefs, and such is the devil's tactics (like how many times have we seen atheists do a total mockery of the Bible because their position erodes when they approach things factually and with respect?).

You are a Christian. You have zero need to rely on mockery or misconstruing anyone's beliefs.

I am misconstruing no one's beliefs. And neither am I saying that Catholics are crazed devil worshipers (those are your words).

It is imperative within the Christian faith that we not only contemplate our navel; but that we also look around and see others in their lost state, and seek to show them the truth so that they might be redeemed.

I know that that is offensive to you as a mormon; but you are just going to have to deal with the fact that born again Christians are evangelistic in our hearts and desire not that any should perish.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I am misconstruing no one's beliefs. And neither am I saying that Catholics are crazed devil worshipers (those are your words).

It is imperative within the Christian faith that we not only contemplate our navel; but that we also look around and see others in their lost state, and seek to show them the truth so that they might be redeemed.

I know that that is offensive to you as a mormon; but you are just going to have to deal with the fact that born again Christians are evangelistic in our hearts and desire not that any should perish.

Your salvation is not dependent on anyone else being saved/not saved. Your love of Christ should not be dependent on anyone else's salvation status.

You can talk about your love of Christ with anyone, regardless of their salvation status. A person could be theologically crazy or extremely close to Christ: talk to all men alike. The bond, the free, the saint, the sinner, etc.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your salvation is not dependent on anyone else being saved/not saved.

Their salvation is dependent on it...and if I am saved...if I have the love of the Lord dwelling within my heart...I will do what I can to win them to salvation. Because love desires that the other person's salvation...it is not so focused on self that it only cares about its own.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Their salvation is dependent on it...and if I am saved...if I have the love of the Lord dwelling within my heart...I will do what I can to win them to salvation. Because love desires that the other person's salvation...it is not so focused on self that it only cares about its own.

Nobody’s salvation is dependent on you mocking or misconstruding what they believe. In fact, nobody ‘s salvation is dependent on you at all- Christ alone is their Savior.

You should have nothing against *listening* to another person sharing their love of God and Savior Jesus Christ.