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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
can a false christ, false god and false gospel save one from sin ?
see Galatians 1:6-9 for the answer
Years ago, I remember my uncle working in a slaughter house standing before the full dead critter with a knife in his hand trimming off the various parts. Even so... but he was an expert at his job knowing just what and where to cut. So it is with the Living Word of God in us... if we are allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the way. The Holy Spirit is the expert!
The scripture the devil quoted at Jesus had no Life in it, but the scripture Jesus spoke back at the devil was Alive. The difference for you and me is the quickening [bringing to Life] Spirit, that is... the Holy Spirit. When people quench the Holy Spirit in themselves the verses from the Bible they quote are similarly dead. People will do that to support what they believe instead of really letting the Holy Spirit do the leading. People are taught to quench the Holy Spirit in most churches of my experience.
101G
Well-Known Member
JESUS....
and in the Hebrew, he's the aleph and the tav, and he's the ordinal First, and the Ordinal Last.
now watch this, Alpha, or ancient, as in ancient of days, and Omega, finisher, as in the finisher of our faith.... (smile),
YIKES!PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
You did not answer my question. Why did you ask the question you asked @mjrhealth: Are you a Jehovah's witness? You had already drawn a conclusion based on a 'Yes" answer. You have apparently concluded that any JW is lost.
A JW or a Mormon or a Catholic or an unbeliever cannot possible recognize Jesus? What did the Samaritan woman see when she was speaking to Jesus and he offered her 'living water'? She was no Jew nor was she a Christian, was she? Was it not her testimony, a hated Samaritan, that drew other unbelievers to Jesus? Did they come because she knew the scriptures better than anyone else?
You then cited these verses to me as if you correctly knew the "gospel" and @mjrhealth did not. Why are you right and why is he wrong? Because he disagrees with you? Are you in the place of Paul, the writer of the letter, and @mjrhealth is in the place of the Galatians? Who decided that?
"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9
Then YHWH said to me, 'Throw it to the potter, the glorious prize of which I am esteemed worthy by them!' And I took the 30 pieces of silver, and cast them into the temple of YHWH. [Zech. 11:13].
What will you give me, and I will deliver him to you? But they set him 30 pieces of silver. [Mt 26:15].
And he threw the 30 pieces of silver into the temple, and made away, and went and hanged himself. [Mt 27:5].
What will you give me, and I will deliver him to you? But they set him 30 pieces of silver. [Mt 26:15].
And he threw the 30 pieces of silver into the temple, and made away, and went and hanged himself. [Mt 27:5].
You will most assuredly have an audience with worldly people in saying what you just said...
Even as it is written,
1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
Jesus is the Father and the Son...for they are the same Spirit.
The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh. That is what makes Him the Son.
If anyone does not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, they will die in their sins (John 8:24) if they were to die in that state of unbelief.
@Christophany, follow my reasoning.
I know that you agree that Jesus is God.
Therefore He must be a Spirit, correct? (see John 4:24).
Ephesians 4:4 says that there is one Spirit.
Is Jesus a different Spirit from the Father?
For the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24).
Is He a different Spirit from the Holy Ghost?
For the Holy Ghost is also the Spirit (John 7:39).
How many Spirits are there? (again, see Ephesians 4:4)
Denial of the Deity of Christ, which is characteristic of Jehovah's Witnesses, will cause a man to die in his sins (John 8:24).
So the answer is yes.
He wasn't judging anyone.
He was proclaiming what the Lord's judgment already is.
Jesus is God.
When the devil quoted scripture to Jesus, he left out a portion of what it said in order to try to deceive the Lord.
When you quote a full verse of holy scripture, it is always alive (Hebrews 4:12, 1 Peter 1:23, John 6:63).
And then again who is in us?
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27
Are we also the Most High?
@justbyfaith
"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor. 3:6
If you would answer only one person at the time it might be easier to understand you and respond. I do not know who the antecedent for "he" is.
The Word of God is alive, but what is the Word of God? Probably do not remember what I believe about that. Perhaps this will help:
"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor. 3:6
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Greetings, gentlemen.
I'm curious about your position on this issue. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator, is He not?
God bless,
Hidden In Him
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
does the entire NT warn us against false teachers/prophets ?
what makes one a false teacher ?
are there " essentials " of the Christian Faith once and for all delivered to the saints ?
hope this helps !!!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
One can be saved without accepting the full divinity of Jesus.
Romans 10:9-11
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Having said that, I also believe that the same Holy Spirit who made that person a new creature in christ will also show them that Jesus ios Jehovah with His Father!
That scripture does not teach that the word of God is dead.
It tells us that the letter kills...
This can be taken in one of two ways:
1) It kills a man spiritually so that reading your Bible is conducive to spiritual death. I reject this propsition because of the sheer ludicrosity of it. We obviously grow spiritually when we read the word.
2) It is helpful in doing what the scripture says to do in Romans 8:13. This is the most excellent interpretation of the verse in question.
If anyone rejects the doctrine of Christ's Deity, they will die in their sins if they die in that state of unbelief (John 8:24).
That would be @teamventure, the person that you were referring to in the post that I was responding to.
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I guess many do not believe all these WARNING passages below regarding false teachers that some here are calling believers.
Matthew 7:15-16
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 23:27-28
27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Matthew 23:33-34
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
John 8:41-45
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Acts 20:29-31
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard!
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth
2 Timothy 2:14-17
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
1 John 4:1-3
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Jude 1:3-4
I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Jude 1:12-13
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
2 John 7-11
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
hope this helps !!!
Matthew 7:15-16
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 23:27-28
27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Matthew 23:33-34
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
John 8:41-45
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Acts 20:29-31
I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard!
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
1 Timothy 6:3-5
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth
2 Timothy 2:14-17
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
1 John 4:1-3
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Jude 1:3-4
I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Jude 1:12-13
These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
2 John 7-11
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
hope this helps !!!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Which is why I said that at first, a JW or Mormon can be saved without accepting the full deity of Christ- that is not the formula for salvation! However the Holy Spirit will teach them.
And the context of John 8 is not Jesus defending His absolute deity, but that He was the light of the Word and the Messiah sent by the Father. It does not argue the deity of Jesus. There are many many verses that we can use to show one that Jesus is equally God with His Father.
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