The problem with the Bible alone!

amadeus · Aug 24, 2021

An Apologetic Sheepdog said:
First, when the epistles were written there was no "bible" as we know it today so obviously there was no command about something that did not yet exist.

Second, the office of apostle ( the 12 selected to speak under the authority of Jesus who by qualification HAD to be a physical eyewitness to the resurrection of Jesus)...

Why do you believe they had to be physical eyewitnesses? Is that found in written scripture?

...are all dead now and that's not a birthright passage so that's a non sequitur comparison. There are no more offices of prophet, apostle or high priest. ( no more human authority direct of God)

What do you believe than concerning the following verses and the work of their ministry? Is all of that work done already so that no one else needs or receive such help?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14

We have the written word and we have the Holy Spirit to teach and guide us.

theefaith · Aug 24, 2021

Ronald David Bruno said:
We have the Holy Spirit to teach us, we do not need a teacher.
Many people in the world own a Bible, may read and even study it. It alone is not enough. We must have a relationship with Jesus, Who died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures. How do we believe? God enables us, He draws us to His Word and guides us. He lifts the veil of blindness, so we can see. He gives us life and His Spirit to dwell in us.
Commentary by scholars is helpful but man is flawed and so truth is compromised. Truth is then often mixed with bad theology and then their followers believe all if it.

Don't worry about anyone else, live your life and have a relationship with Christ. Be joyful, love one another and judge not lest you be judged.
I think Pope John Paul II was a great man, I read his book "Beyond the Threshold of Hope" - It was amazing. He knew his history, ten languages, wow. Mother Teresa was a loving women, a true servant.
Not everyone can be like them. We all have a purpose, some will have a little faith and others an abundant amount.
I remember an interview with Mother Teresa who was close to her time. The woman reporter asked, "Who will take your place? She said, "You can!" Oh, how that reporter shrunk back in rejection. She must have felt convicted or even guilty. She wasn't willing and not everyone is. But it was a lesson. God calls everyone to do something. What has He asked you to do? Love.

I don’t share you’re opinion of those two

No the Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth Jn 8:32 16:13 and they teach us matt 28:19

Unity of faith comes from the teaching authority of the apostles not you’re personal interpretation of scripture even in the so called light of the HS

theefaith · Aug 24, 2021

Robert Gwin said:
Philip was not actually an apostle sir, however he was a disciple, and all disciples have the same assignment given when Jesus returned to heaven. All disciples today are still under that assignment, to declare the good news to the ends of the earth. This assignment will be completed when Mat 24:14 and Acts 1:8 is fulfilled to God's satisfaction.

Jesus and other angels do oversee the preaching work, and just like the account in Acts showed then, it still happens today, if someone is sincerely searching for God, He will let Himself be found and they will be reached by one of His people.

really? Matt 10:2
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Only the apostles Jn 20:21-23
Are you a priest? Bishop? Can you forgive sins

Ronald David Bruno · Aug 24, 2021

theefaith said:
I don’t share you’re opinion of those two

No the Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth Jn 8:32 16:13 and they teach us matt 28:19

Unity of faith comes from the teaching authority of the apostles not you’re personal interpretation of scripture even in the so called light of the HS

Do you believe in and discern these scriptures?
"But the anointing which ye have received from Him abideth in you, and ye have no need that any man teach you. But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
John 14:26

Illuminator · Aug 24, 2021

Addy said:
So why have such an object in the first place if like you have stated it resembles witchcraft??

I didn't say that. It's wrong to wear a scapular as a magic charm. I made that perfectly clear.

I am familiar with a scapular... I have even worn one... It is supposed to help with keeping a person's attire PURE... the premise was to wear it in such a fashion that no one would see it.

AND have the proper disposition, I also made that perfectly clear.

It never solved the issue of purity... which is a condition of the heart... ALL the rituals and traditions in the world do NOTHING but keep us clinging to them... Catholicism represents a whole smorgasbord of RITUALS... with very bad results of maintaining holiness... purity... goodness... or love.

Jesus didn't abolish ritual and physicality, He perfected them. This is explained in post 54. You have little or no physicality so you are compelled to attack those who do.

If you cut the RCC in the middle.... WHAT will you find inside??? ( In the deep dark places )... I fear it is evilness to overflowing. One day this is actually going to happen.... and that is WHEN we will see what the Roman Catholic church was all about.

There have always been sinners in the church, just as there have been great holy saints.

BEAUTY is as beauty DOES.... ALL this defending of an institution is mind boggling to me... a form of idolatry... God is not the least bit moved by any of it.

By your standards, you should ban weddings because they are all ritualistic. You are blinded by prejudice. That post is an uncharitable hate rant and has been reported as such. But nothing will be done about it because of the double standard of the rules. Jesus didn't abolish ritual and physicality, He perfected them. Try responding intelligently to post #54.

Addy · Aug 24, 2021

Illuminator said:
That post is an uncharitable hate rant and has been reported as such. Try responding intelligently to post #54.

I thought it was a thought out response... It seems anything that challenges the church is considered HATE.... If ADMIN removes the post... so be it.... If you would have asked me personally... I would have obliged you.

As a former Catholic... I think I am allowed to make perhaps more dramatic statements with regards to the church I once belonged to.

Uncharitable hate rant?? REALLY ??

It seems Mungo is the only Catholic here I am able to communicate with. He/she shows much humility.

Anyways.... If it goes it goes... I do not care. Have a lovely day... I shall leave you in peace.

theefaith · Aug 24, 2021

Ronald David Bruno said:
Do you believe in and discern these scriptures?
"But the anointing which ye have received from Him abideth in you, and ye have no need that any man teach you. But as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
John 14:26

the apostles yes
The people must be taught

Ronald David Bruno · Aug 24, 2021

theefaith said:
the apostles yes
The people must be taught

This truly explains why you know what you know and do what you do.

amigo de christo · Aug 24, 2021

Addy said:
I thought it was a thought out response... It seems anything that challenges the church is considered HATE.... If ADMIN removes the post... so be it.... If you would have asked me personally... I would have obliged you.

As a former Catholic... I think I am allowed to make perhaps more dramatic statements with regards to the church I once belonged to.

Uncharitable hate rant?? REALLY ??

It seems Mungo is the only Catholic here I am able to communicate with. He/she shows much humility.

Anyways.... If it goes it goes... I do not care. Have a lovely day... I shall leave you in peace.

Uncharitable hate rant ..............this sounds like something the woke group would say . Let not threat silence our voices my friend .
They gonna do as they gonna do . Oh well i say . They wont silence my voice .

Addy · Aug 24, 2021

@Illuminator ... OH my goodness... you tell me you have reported my post as a hate rant... and then you turn around and
address it???????? WOW...

I really do need to try and stay out of the Catholic debates... they just get under my skin... all of it.... I just find this so offensive...

Go to mass... be happy... leave the protestants alone.... rather than telling them they they are SECOND class Christians... and wrong for thinking the bible is the ONLY authority necessary for CHRISTIAN life.

This is WRONG... WRONG... WRONG... My Addy rant for the day.... I will make a conscientious EFFORT to avoid ALL Catholic discussions...

theefaith · Aug 24, 2021

Ronald David Bruno said:
This truly explains why you know what you know and do what you do.

Do you have care for you’re soul?

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

God always establishes order in obedience to hierarchical authority of fathers! Heb 13:17

Illuminator · Aug 24, 2021

The Church never says Protestants are second class Christians. We are instructed to regard all baptized in Christ as brothers and sisters. And we are entitled to defend ourselves against stupid insults.

CharismaticLady · Aug 24, 2021

An Apologetic Sheepdog said:
The "teaching authority" of the apostles is recorded in their writings and died with them.

Jesus is the "teaching authority" and apostles were not the only offices Jesus gives to His Church. Jesus is NOT dead. He still gives offices to the Church today to those who can hear God's voice, and understand His ancient Word through the Holy Spirit who is still alive also.

Addy · Aug 24, 2021

Illuminator said:
The Church never says Protestants are second class Christians. We are instructed to regard all baptized in Christ as brothers and sisters. And we are entitled to defend ourselves against stupid insults.

Well.... I don't think you will find ANYWHERE within my words... where I have insulted any HUMAN BEING.... I have however shown disdain for the INSTITUTION of the Catholic church..... there is a difference. Anyways.... I will try to remember that Catholicism is NOT a pleasant or even permissible topic for me... Pray for my WISDOM... LOL

BreadOfLife · Aug 24, 2021

Addy said:
As a former Catholic... I think I am allowed to make perhaps more dramatic statements with regards to the church I once belonged to.

Well - that explains your ignorance.

It's been my experience that the people who are MOST ignorant of Catholic teaching are EX-Catholics.
I've debated Atheists who know more about what Catholics believe and teach than those who left from an abject ignorance of the faith.

Illuminator · Aug 24, 2021

Bob Estey said:
God and Jesus are divine. Can the same be said of the apostles?

We all agree that the Scriptures are God breathed, but so are the Apostles.
John 20:22 – the Lord “breathes” on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord “breathes” divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.
read more here

Illuminator · Aug 25, 2021

amadeus said:
Don't forget also the following verses regarding those given by God to assist us:

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15

If 2 Timothy 3 proves the sole sufficiency of Scripture, then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. In Ephesians 4, the Christian believer is equipped, built up, brought into unity and mature manhood, and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church. This is a far stronger statement of the perfecting of the saints than 2 Timothy 3, yet it does not even mention Scripture.
read more here

Paul Christensen · Aug 25, 2021

theefaith said:
The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

Scratch these verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone” our of your Bible!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

God has said everything He has already said and everything He has to say in the Bible. Everything else that has been said and is being said is the presumed invention of man. When people ignore the authority of the Bible, they turn their back on the authority of God, and depart from the Gospel of Christ.

The way to eternal life in Christ is narrow and few find it. Only those who hold to the exclusive authority of the Bible and the truth contained in it concerning Christ and what He did for us on the Cross, and put their full trust in Christ as He is described in the Gospels, will get through the narrow gate.

Hell will be populated by those who refuse the exclusive authority of the Bible over all the traditions of man. This is because the traditions of those who add them to the Bible actually make the Word of God of no effect for them. And because this is so, Christ is of no effect for them, and Christ is the only way anyone can be saved.

Church councils never decided the canon of Scripture. All they did was to ratify the canon that already existed from the early days of the church.

Brakelite · Aug 25, 2021

BreadOfLife said:
than those who left from an abject ignorance of the faith.

If that abject ignorance of faith was on the part of the Catholic Church, I would agree. It was the abject ignorance and distaste of a priest for anyone becoming converted that convinced me the church was wanting.

Robert Gwin · Aug 25, 2021

theefaith said:
really? Matt 10:2
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Only the apostles Jn 20:21-23
Are you a priest? Bishop? Can you forgive sins

Different Phillip sir. Last questions No; No; No. In this time period it is only Jesus who has been given the authority to forgive sins.

The problem with the Bible alone!

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