Matthew 24:29iamlamad said:Let's look together, readers included:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light..
Rev. 6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Sorry,, I don't agree. There are TWO times these signs are shown. the first time is the warning for the DAY as shown to us in Joel 2 and Rev. 6. Here the moon appears as blood, while the sun is darkened. The next time these signs are seen is about 7 years later, as the sign for the coming of the Son of man. We see this sign also shown in Joel 3. Did you never read Joel 3 to see both these signs written in Joel?
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Why did you leave that part out?
Revelation 6:12-13
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
Probably the same reason you didn't include verse 13 here. The moon being darkened and turned to blood can very well be the same thing, and it seems very plausible that this is the case when you look at how every other event matches up. Are the stars going to fall twice also? Have you ever seen the moon during a total lunar eclipse?
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnVWZj69zRo
Was the moon darkened? Did the moon also turn a reddish color?
Paul was writing to the Thessalonians, in both of his letters, about things that would happen in the last days."Paul was reiterating to the Thessalonians what Jesus told his disciples on the Mount of Olives."
I don't think so. But perhaps you could show us two verses that show you this...one from 2 thes. and one from Mat. 24?
One thing I do see in Mat 24 that others seem to overlook, is: "but the end is not yet." Much of the signs people think are IN the 70th week Jesus tells us are only birth pains.
I am sorry, I cannot find in Matt. 24 where Jesus said there would be a falling away from the faith.. Can you show us that verse?
Matthew 24:10-14
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Other uses of that same Greek word:
Matthew 13:20-21
The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
Matthew 26:31-35
Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away (different form of the same word) on account of me, for it is written:
“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”
Peter replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.”
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”
But Peter declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
Mark 4:17 uses the same word as Matthew 24:21.
Mark 14:29 uses the same word as Matthew 26:33.
2 Corinthians 11:27-29
I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin,and I do not inwardly burn?
When he says "that day will not come", what makes you think that he's only talking about the coming of Jesus and not the gathering also? Again, if you look back at Matthew 24, there IS a gathering AT the second coming.Readers. shall we let PAUL tell us what he was really going to discuss here? What does He say? His THEME is the coming of Jesus and our gathering together to meet Him. This is what Paul is going to discuss. Thanks, TWC, but I am going with what PAUL said he would discuss. Therefore, any theory of his meaning MUST INCLUDE something about the gathering.
You're still assuming that "apostasia" is a literal, physical departure. Just because the word can be translated as "departure" and CAN mean a spatial departure, doesn't mean that the word DOES mean this. An end-times falling away from the faith is clearly mentioned in more than one place in the New Testament, and it just so happens that the only other occurrence of "apostasia" is the same type of falling away.Readers, I did not write this, PAUL wrote it! So HOW can we know? Just simply UNDERSTANDING the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit when HE caused Paul to write, "and NOW YOU KNOW..." I believe even a 5th grader could understand Paul's meaning....somewhere in the previous verses HE TOLD US who the restrainer was. That is why he wrote, "and now you know..."
Verses 6-8 tell us that what is restraining MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY before the man of sin can be revealed.
In verse 3-B the restraining IS TAKEN out of the way. Therefore, pure logic demands that the restrainer was removed in 3-A.
Paul then is clear, the meaning of the Greek word, "apostasia" has to mean the restrainer - indeed, it can mean nothing else.
But is it not just any apostasia, it is THE apostasia....a very significant one. This is why I am sure the first translators had it right as "departure." Did Paul talk about as SIGNIFICANT departure of something that could possibly restrain evil? OF COURSE, Paul talked about the rapture of the church!
As I said, case closed. We we get to heaven and ask Paul, He is going to tells us "Of course I meant the gathering of the believers, that was the theme of the passage," or at least words to this effect. It is the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit. Lamad