Where does the Pope get his authority?

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Brakelite

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Who said it was bereft of evidence? The scriptures and established science tell us that the earth was not created along with the Universe only 6,000 years ago. There were no dinosaurs on the ark. The earth has been in existence for way longer that YEC's claim and they cannot account for extinct species whose remains have been found and identified as perhaps hundreds of thousands if not million of years old. There is no evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed on this planet.

Science does not argue with the Bible if God invented the things that true and established science studies.

The creation account is divided into 6 periods of time that God called "days"....in Hebrew that word has a much broader meaning that just 24 hours. Each of those periods could have been millions of years long...an infinite God does not live in earth time and he has his own agenda in creation, taking as long as he needed to created each and every living thing. God is not a magician....his creations are his careful and well thought out plans of action....taking all the time he needed to get things just right.....and don't we see that in creation?

The "days" God took to fulfill each one's own agenda were completed to God's satisfaction right up to the end of the 6th day, which with the creation of mankind, was said to be "very good"....what does "very good" mean to God? Everything was just as he planned it to be....perfect.

But the day of rest would be like all the other days....not 24 hours long, but periods of time where material creating was finished, but God's work was not finished at all. (John 5:17) He now had an indefinite period of time for all contingencies to be worked out regarding the gift of free will.....if it was abused, then God would have to deal with it....and he was ready for whatever happened. Again, time was needed to sort things out so that at the end of the 7th day a declaration could again be made as to it success. Why do you think there is no declaration ending the 7th day? Because it had to run its course and serve its purpose, like all the other "days". It will end when God's "will is done on earth as it is in heaven"....the coming of God;s Kingdom will take a thousand earth years to accomplish a successful conclusion to the entire creative process. Stand back...and look up.
So your evidence is so called science? Did you not declare the scriptures as the foundation of faith and practise? Now you are using science to interpret and define what scripture is saying? Theistic evolution is a very sad and pathetic biblically illiterate and faithless description of how God created.
You believe what the Bible actually says is describing magic? There were times in the past where I thought your posts exhibited summer thoughtful perspectives, but now I'm lost for words.
The fall of man brought death to creation. You have reversed the sequence and claim death actually assisted in the creation of man.
KJV Psalms 33:6-9
6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
 
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Peterlag

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Not the first time I have seen false advertising. Definitely the first time I have seen wilful false advertising being justified as promoting Jesus Christ.
It's an awesome book. I could not say enough about it's greatness. I don't see the problem you see. Even Jesus Christ said it was great.
 
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Aunty Jane

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So your evidence is so called science?
Hmmmm,....if you read my reply...its the Bible agreeing with science...true science, not to be confused with theoretical science.
So unless you want to dismiss all science, perhaps you need to reconsider what you are suggesting...?
Did you not declare the scriptures as the foundation of faith and practise? Now you are using science to interpret and define what scripture is saying? Theistic evolution is a very sad and pathetic biblically illiterate and faithless description of how God created.
I never promoted "theistic evolution" which is nothing more than a cover up for sitting on an invisible fence...pretending that your faith is scientific. I posted scripture telling you that God himself in "nature" gave us the way to determine days and weeks and months....
Please read my post again.....the Bible backs up science.....YEC's are spouting nonsense.
You believe what the Bible actually says is describing magic? There were times in the past where I thought your posts exhibited summer thoughtful perspectives, but now I'm lost for words.
Could it be that now you are assuming that I said what I never did?
Creation is not the work of a magician.....the very fact that God is a Creator proves that creation is not something he simply "spoke" into existence. What need did he have of a rest day if all he did was speak...and "poof" there it was.
It was hard work, requiring a great deal of planning and forethought.
The fall of man brought death to creation. You have reversed the sequence and claim death actually assisted in the creation of man.
What??? Sorry but that makes no sense....Where have I reversed the sequence of anything? You are grasping at straws now....
God's word and true science are in agreement with one another....."theoretical science" OTOH is based on unprovable assumptions. I never said that I supported "theistic evolution".....please don't put words in my mouth.

I quoted God's word and apparently its not what you wanted to hear.
KJV Psalms 33:6-9
6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Yes....and....? God's word always comes true.....what he purposes, he fulfills. (Isa 55:11).....what are you trying to say?
 
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RedFan

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It's an awesome book. I could not say enough about it's greatness. I don't see the problem you see. Even Jesus Christ said it was great.
Your deception of others with a bogus "award winning" claim has morphed into self-deception.

Here's an idea: Let's recruit some volunteers from this site to do a little reading. As fate would have it, I've written a book that actually IS an award winning book. An actual commercially published book, one you could buy on Amazon. I'll make it available free to any volunteers. If, after reading yours and mine, a single volunteer thinks yours is better, I'll kiss your ass and give you a week to draw a crowd. If they unanimously prefer mine, you remove the "award winning" lie from your website. What say you?

Any volunteers out there?
 
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quietthinker

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Your deception of others with a bogus "award winning" claim has morphed into self-deception.

Here's an idea: Let's recruit some volunteers from this site to do a little reading. As fate would have it, I've written a book that actually IS an award winning book. An actual commercially published book, one you could buy on Amazon. I'll make it available free to any volunteers. If, after reading yours and mine, a single volunteer thinks yours is better, I'll kiss your ass and give you a week to draw a crowd. If they unanimously prefer mine, you remove the "award winning" lie from your website. What say you?

Any volunteers out there?
With respect, I have more to read than I can handle.
I have watched as Peter has tried to defend his case and have concluded that he digs his hole deeper at every attempt. An author who does this gives me no reason to even consider reading his writings.
I would however be interested in a synopsis of yours. Would you be willing to give it?
 
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RedFan

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With respect, I have more to read than I can handle.
I have watched as Peter has tried to defend his case and have concluded that he digs his hole deeper at every attempt. An author who does this gives me no reason to even consider reading his writings.
I would however be interested in a synopsis of yours. Would you be willing to give it?
Sure. The book is titled "Heresy." You can see a synopsis on my website, and download an excerpt there (the preface and first chapter).
 
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Peterlag

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Amen, and certainly not one who brings in idols and graven images to say nothing of its pagan rituals and ceremonies...
It's just in the last couple of years that I have realized how ingrained the Catholics are in our culture. Christians everywhere believe Catholic doctrine and swear to me they are not Catholic. Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another. In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.
 

Peterlag

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Your deception of others with a bogus "award winning" claim has morphed into self-deception.

Here's an idea: Let's recruit some volunteers from this site to do a little reading. As fate would have it, I've written a book that actually IS an award winning book. An actual commercially published book, one you could buy on Amazon. I'll make it available free to any volunteers. If, after reading yours and mine, a single volunteer thinks yours is better, I'll kiss your ass and give you a week to draw a crowd. If they unanimously prefer mine, you remove the "award winning" lie from your website. What say you?

Any volunteers out there?
Made 12 changes to the online book just today. Still not even advertising it. I have already found a whole bunch of lies from you concerning biblical data.
 

The Learner

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1 Corinthians 8

Easy-to-Read Version

About Food Offered to Idols​

8 Now I will write about meat that is sacrificed[a] to idols. It is certainly true that “we all have knowledge,” as you say. But this knowledge only fills people with pride. It is love that helps the church grow stronger. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know anything as they should. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God.
4 So this is what I say about eating meat: We know that an idol is really nothing in the world, and we know that there is only one God. 5 It’s really not important if there are things called gods in heaven or on earth—and there are many of these “gods” and “lords” out there. 6 For us there is only one God, and he is our Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things were made through him, and we also have life through him.
7 But not all people know this. Some have had the habit of worshiping idols. So now when they eat meat, they still feel as if it belongs to an idol. They are not sure that it is right to eat this meat. So when they eat it, they feel guilty. 8 But food will not bring us closer to God. Refusing to eat does not make us less pleasing to God, and eating does not make us closer to him.
9 But be careful with your freedom. Your freedom to eat anything may make those who have doubts about what they can eat fall into sin. 10 You understand that it’s all right to eat anything, so you can eat even in an idol’s temple. But someone who has doubts might see you eating there, and this might encourage them to eat meat sacrificed to idols too. But they really think it is wrong. 11 So this weak brother or sister—someone Christ died for—is lost because of your better understanding. 12 When you sin against your brothers and sisters in Christ in this way and you hurt them by causing them to do things they feel are wrong, you are also sinning against Christ. 13 So if the food I eat makes another believer fall into sin, I will never eat meat again. I will stop eating meat, so that I will not make my brother or sister sin.

Footnotes​

  1. 1 Corinthians 8:1 sacrificed Killed and offered as a gift to show worship. Also in verse 10.
 

Brakelite

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Hmmmm,....if you read my reply...its the Bible agreeing with science...true science, not to be confused with theoretical science.
So unless you want to dismiss all science, perhaps you need to reconsider what you are suggesting...?

I never promoted "theistic evolution" which is nothing more than a cover up for sitting on an invisible fence...pretending that your faith is scientific. I posted scripture telling you that God himself in "nature" gave us the way to determine days and weeks and months....
Please read my post again.....the Bible backs up science.....YEC's are spouting nonsense.

Could it be that now you are assuming that I said what I never did?
Creation is not the work of a magician.....the very fact that God is a Creator proves that creation is not something he simply "spoke" into existence. What need did he have of a rest day if all he did was speak...and "poof" there it was.
It was hard work, requiring a great deal of planning and forethought.

What??? Sorry but that makes no sense....Where have I reversed the sequence of anything? You are grasping at straws now....
God's word and true science are in agreement with one another....."theoretical science" OTOH is based on unprovable assumptions. I never said that I supported "theistic evolution".....please don't put words in my mouth.

I quoted God's word and apparently its not what you wanted to hear.

Yes....and....? God's word always comes true.....what he purposes, he fulfills. (Isa 55:11).....what are you trying to say?
It took thousands, perhaps millions of years, for God to work out how to create a man? The word of God says it took 6 days. The Sabbath was the 7th day of the week... Again, scripture testifying that this is truth... And that one week comprising 7 days is not defined by nature. Yes, the day is measured by a rotation of the earth, the year by the circuit round the sun, the month is measured by the moon, but there is nothing in nature that defines a week. There is only one explanation for the week and why the patriarchs adopted it, they inherited it from Adam, who received instruction from God concerning creation.
 

RedFan

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Peterlag

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Your deception of others with a bogus "award winning" claim has morphed into self-deception.

Here's an idea: Let's recruit some volunteers from this site to do a little reading. As fate would have it, I've written a book that actually IS an award winning book. An actual commercially published book, one you could buy on Amazon. I'll make it available free to any volunteers. If, after reading yours and mine, a single volunteer thinks yours is better, I'll kiss your ass and give you a week to draw a crowd. If they unanimously prefer mine, you remove the "award winning" lie from your website. What say you?

Any volunteers out there?
I clicked on your link and it does not take me to a place where I can read a bit about what the book supports. It does mention the trinity. Now if you teach there's any kind of a trinity. Then your book and your award winning metal needs to be put in the trash.
 
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Aunty Jane

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It took thousands, perhaps millions of years, for God to work out how to create a man?
Is that what I said?
It took God whatever time it took him to create the universe and all that it encompassed….do we have any idea how big the Universe is? Do you believe that the Universe is just 6000 years old?

Does it tell us in the Bible how much time elapsed between the creation of the Universe and the preparation of the earth for the arrival of its first inhabitants?

What was created before any living thing appeared? A source of food and water….each creature with its own food source and water supply, provided in anticipation of their arrival…..carefully planned and brought about by the operation of his spirit.
The word of God says it took 6 days.
Not literal 24 hour days…..The Hebrew word “yôm” can mean….”a day” or a “period of time”….it is not confined to a 24 hour period, as we use the expression ourselves…”in my grandfather’s day”, it doesn’t mean a 24 hour period, does it?
The Sabbath was the 7th day of the week... Again, scripture testifying that this is truth... And that one week comprising 7 days is not defined by nature. Yes, the day is measured by a rotation of the earth, the year by the circuit round the sun, the month is measured by the moon, but there is nothing in nature that defines a week.
Hang on…..what? Didn’t you just contradict yourself there?
Astronomy allowed those who studied the stars to ascertain the divisions of time created in the Universe that determined earth time, divided into days, weeks, months and years. (Gen 1: 14-19)
“Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.”
There it is….how can you say that there is nothing in nature that determines a week? Time division is mathematics…..each day is 24 hours clearly defined as night and day…..Weeks had to mathematically fit the earth’s orbit around the sun…exactly 365 and 1/4 days…..The Jews used a lunar calendar so they had to add a month to make up the shortfall in days. The seasons had to be relied upon for crops to be planted, grown and harvested at the correct time.

Also something you did not address was the length of the “day” if it was merely 24 hours…..
”there was evening and there was morning“….Evening to morning is not 24 hours…..is it?
The Jewish day began at sundown and ended at sundown the next day…..
There is only one explanation for the week and why the patriarchs adopted it, they inherited it from Adam, who received instruction from God concerning creation.
No Sabbath observance was held by any human prior to the Jews receiving God’s Law through Moses.
Please find us any mention of this in scripture.

What God blessed was the Sabbath of his rest day (not a 24 hour period)….this was the period of time that he allowed for his purpose to become established, so that whatever path the humans took, any difficulty would be dealt with successfully in order to bring his purpose to fruition. (Isa 55:11) What God starts, he finishes….successfully. When the 7th day ends, God’s declaration will again be “very good”……did you not notice that the declaration at the end of each “day” was a statement of God’s satisfaction with his efforts thus far…..but that the 7th day has no such declaration……was the 7th day a failure then? We already know that God cannot fail at anything he does…..his creation is absolutely perfect….that is, perfect for the purpose he designed it.
 

Brakelite

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Is that what I said?
It took God whatever time it took him to create the universe and all that it encompassed….do we have any idea how big the Universe is? Do you believe that the Universe is just 6000 years old?

Does it tell us in the Bible how much time elapsed between the creation of the Universe and the preparation of the earth for the arrival of its first inhabitants?

What was created before any living thing appeared? A source of food and water….each creature with its own food source and water supply, provided in anticipation of their arrival…..carefully planned and brought about by the operation of his spirit.

Not literal 24 hour days…..The Hebrew word “yôm” can mean….”a day” or a “period of time”….it is not confined to a 24 hour period, as we use the expression ourselves…”in my grandfather’s day”, it doesn’t mean a 24 hour period, does it?

Hang on…..what? Didn’t you just contradict yourself there?
Astronomy allowed those who studied the stars to ascertain the divisions of time created in the Universe that determined earth time, divided into days, weeks, months and years. (Gen 1: 14-19)
“Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.”
There it is….how can you say that there is nothing in nature that determines a week? Time division is mathematics…..each day is 24 hours clearly defined as night and day…..Weeks had to mathematically fit the earth’s orbit around the sun…exactly 365 and 1/4 days…..The Jews used a lunar calendar so they had to add a month to make up the shortfall in days. The seasons had to be relied upon for crops to be planted, grown and harvested at the correct time.

Also something you did not address was the length of the “day” if it was merely 24 hours…..
”there was evening and there was morning“….Evening to morning is not 24 hours…..is it?
The Jewish day began at sundown and ended at sundown the next day…..

No Sabbath observance was held by any human prior to the Jews receiving God’s Law through Moses.
Please find us any mention of this in scripture.

What God blessed was the Sabbath of his rest day (not a 24 hour period)….this was the period of time that he allowed for his purpose to become established, so that whatever path the humans took, any difficulty would be dealt with successfully in order to bring his purpose to fruition. (Isa 55:11) What God starts, he finishes….successfully. When the 7th day ends, God’s declaration will again be “very good”……did you not notice that the declaration at the end of each “day” was a statement of God’s satisfaction with his efforts thus far…..but that the 7th day has no such declaration……was the 7th day a failure then? We already know that God cannot fail at anything he does…..his creation is absolutely perfect….that is, perfect for the purpose he designed it.
It's interesting. I never knew Jehovah's Witnesses held the same antipathy toward the Sabbath and used the same excuses for forgetting what God said to remember, as the spiritual conglomeration of Babylon the Great , that institution they claim they have nothing in common with. You too, if you continue in this vein, will join with them in condemning "those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus", for when Jesus said "you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake", you would be included in "all nations". You will find it expedient to unite with those who honour Sunday.
 
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MatthewG

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There is no such thing as a person having spiritual authority over anyone anymore, unless you are an apostle and seen Jesus, ascending.
 
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Peterlag

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Do tell. With specificity, please.
I clicked on your link and it does not take me to a place where I can read a bit about what the book supports. It does mention the trinity. Now if you teach there's any kind of a trinity. Then your book and your award winning metal needs to be put in the trash.
 

Aunty Jane

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It's interesting. I never knew Jehovah's Witnesses held the same antipathy toward the Sabbath and used the same excuses for forgetting what God said to remember, as the spiritual conglomeration of Babylon the Great , that institution they claim they have nothing in common with.
“Antipathy”? Where have I shown aversion to the observance of the Jewish Sabbath? All I have said, which to date you have not been able to refute, is that it was given to Jews exclusively and that when Gentiles were added to the Christian arrangement, there was no REQUIREMENT for them to observe any holy days but one. The Memorial of Christ’s death…..an annual observance to commemorate the most important date on our calendar. (March 24th this year)

Do you celebrate Easter Brakelite? If you do, then you join Christendom in her fake observance of a very unchristian festival, replete with pagan fertility symbols that adorn our supermarket shelves every year. What about Christmas? Do you engage in that as well?
SDA’s that I have visited in my ministry, have had a very lax attitude towards those events. I can only ask why? Why stress over the Sabbath as if it’s the most important thing, when it was not stressed for Christians In the first century, at all? For the first Christians, (all Jewish) circumcision attracted more controversy than the Sabbath because the Jews wanted the Gentiles to observe the Law of Moses. The apostles taught that it was not necessary to observe the Law anymore. The Law of the Christ replaced the written law.
You too, if you continue in this vein, will join with them in condemning "those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus", for when Jesus said "you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake", you would be included in "all nations". You will find it expedient to unite with those who honour Sunday.
Oh dear…..since when have I “condemned” anyone for observing the Sabbath? I have always said that it is up to any individual to observe if they wish to….there is no law against it….but it was given only to the Jews whose first observance was in the wilderness when the manna was provided for them for six days. A double portion was provided on the sixth day and stored for the Sabbath without spoiling.
It was required under their law to keep Sabbath until the coming of their Messiah, when all in the law was fulfilled in him, and it was no longer a “curse” on Israel….’Jesus became a curse instead of them’. (Gal 3:10-13)

For us, Jesus is “Lord of the Sabbath”, because it is during his reign that the 7th day is brought to its full completion. When all is accomplished in the re-establishment of Jehovah’s rightful Kingship over redeemed mankind, then the declaration for the 7th day will resound in all the earth as Jesus hands back the Kingdom to his God and Father. (1 Cor 15:24) Mission accomplished!

My argument is not antipathy…..I have great respect for the only Sabbath that a Christian is required to acknowledge….the one that brings God’s rightful rulership back to the then perfected human race…..released from the curse of sin and death forever……for all who are redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice.

‘Methinks thou protest too much’…..over something that was never meant to be a stumbling block in the big picture. :IDK:There are way more important issues than what day is used to worship the true God…for us it is every day…..as all days have an opportunity to serve and praise the one who created everything.
 
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