Female Pastors

101G said:

2 justaname, Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I submit unto you two proof, that the apostle was talking to wives, married women only.
the definition of the word woman.
G1135 γυνή gune (goo-nay') n.
1. a woman
2. (specially) a wife
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096
so the word "WOMAN" can be either a single woman, or a married woman, (wife).

Proof #1. 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve".
Eve was the, "WIFE", of Adam. so here in verse 13 in referring to the woman Eve this way, it showed the relationship of HUSBAND and WIFE. so why did the apostle used the name Eve here, it was to be known that he was talking to married women.

EVE, G2096 Eua (yoo'-ah) n/p.
1. Eua (or Eva, i.e. Chavvah)
2. Eve, the first woman, and the wife of Adam
[of Hebrew origin (H2332)]
KJV: Eve
Root(s): H2332

so by using this direct personal name of this woman, it indicate that the apostle is speaking of "MARRIED WOMEN".

Proof #2. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

the only woman, legally who suppose to have, or bear children is a woman who is MARRIED, (to her OWN husband), meaning she have a husband, to legally bear children..
so these scriptures plainly tells us that the apostle was talking to MARRIED WOMEN, WIVES, ONLY. and not to Women in General.

The reason for women not having authority positions in the Church has to do with the curse. When God says "Your desire will be for your husband", this is the same word used translated "desire" when describing sin over Cain.

A curse????.

NOT all women are not MARRIED

so that crutch cannot be used anymore.

Love and Peace
101G

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I can appreciate your interpretation, yet what you posted proves nothing. Also let us read further into the scriptures given by Paul and see what is being instructed to the church and beloved Timothy. Lets bear in remembrance also there was not chapter breaks and again like you said context is important.

1 Timothy 3:1-13
1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.
11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Deacons and Bishops are referred to as men and men only. Verse 11 refers to the wives of Deacons.

The curse was passed to all women, not just wives, hence the childbearing aspect. Just ask an unmarried mother if childbearing is painful.

101G said:

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

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The word in Timothy 2:9-15 is women. The word only means wife when the woman is a wife. If Paul meant a wife, instead of saying "I suffer not a woman to teach" he would have said he doesn't permit his woman to teach him, or some such possessive language indicating a wife (ignoring that Paul wasn't married).

Paul isn't talking about the relationship of husbands and wives but about the conduct of women in general and in the church.

And, what's your point? That it's okay for single women to be pastors but not married women?

Your "proof", the references to Adam and Eve, and to childbearing, do nothing to show Paul was talking about wives. Paul brought up Adam and Eve's transgression, not their relationship. Paul also doesn't say these women have bore children (indicating that they're married).

101G said:

2 justaname, greeting,
I can appreciate your interpretation, yet what you posted proves nothing. Also let us read further into the scriptures given by Paul and see what is being instructed to the church and beloved Timothy. Lets bear in remembrance also there was not chapter breaks and again like you said context is important.

I can appreciate your interpretation, why thank you in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Now justaname, you made this statement, "Lets bear in remembrance also there was not chapter breaks and again like you said context is important". so lets see this in action, meaning no chapter break.

2 Corinthians 5:18 "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

now lets continue without a break,

2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)"

"and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee": HOLD THAT THOUGHT. the context here is 2 Corinthians 5:18 "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation". now what was this "MINISTRY"? answer, the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus the Christ. now remember I said Hold that thought, "and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)". salvation is by hearing the GOSPEL OF JESUS THE CHRIST. for by the GOSPEL, HE SUCCOURED THEE, "US". now Roman 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also".
HOLD IT, SAY THAT AGAIN?. "for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also". she helped the apostle in salvation?.

lets go back to 2 Corinthians 6:1 "We then, as workers together with him". him meaning Christ Jesus, and worker means those who labor in the Gospel.


I have posted this before, but justname have givem more ammunition to support women as leader in the word of God, thanks just mane. follow the word labor.

"Women, in Leadership Roles"
Lets see what the scriptures say?.



Study Scripture: Philippians 4 2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life".



Teaching Scripture: 1Thess 5:12 "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"

lets walk through this verse with the wisdom of Christ".
​

Commentary: Which labour among you. There is no reason to suppose, as many have done, that the apostle here refers to different classes of ministers, he rather refers to different parts of the work which the same ministers perform. The first is, that they "labour"--that is, evidently, in preaching the gospel. where it occurs twice; 1Cor 15:10; 1Cor 16:16. The word is one which properly expresses wearisome toil, and implies that the office of preaching is one that demands constant industry. And are over you in the Lord. That is, by the appointment of the Lord, or under his direction. They are not absolute sovereigns, but are themselves subject to one who is over them--the Lord Jesus. On the word here rendered "are over you," (προισταμενους) Rom 12:8, where it is translated ruleth.

Now lets reinforce this with a second scripture: 1Cor 16:16 "That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth".

Commentary: and laboureth; in the Lord's vineyard, in the word and doctrine, for the good of souls, and the glory of Christ: for such are worthy of double honour, and ought to be valued and esteemed for their works' sake, and submitted to in everything that is according to the rules of the Gospel. get that again.



Please read all of your commentary on this scripture and those listed above.

Now that it is establish that those who, "Labour", in the Lord is over you, or ruleth.

knowing this, Lets look at 1Thess 5:12 again, but more closely, "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you"

The word over is very important
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v.
1. to stand before
2. (in rank) to preside
3. (by implication) to practise
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule
Root(s): G4253, G2476

Now lets look at various translation: 1Thess 5:12

Amplified: Now also we beseech you, brethren, get to know those who labor among you [recognize them for what they are, acknowledge and appreciate and respect them all]—your leaders who are over you in the Lord and those who warn and kindly reprove and exhort you. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)
KJV: And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
NLT: Dear brothers and sisters, honor those who are your leaders in the Lord's work. They work hard among you and warn you against all that is wrong. (NLT - Tyndale House)
Phillips: We ask you too, my brothers, to get to know those who work so hard among you. They are your spiritual leaders to keep you on the right path. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: Now, we request of you, brethren, that you recognize those for what they are and as entitled to the respect due them who work to the point of weariness among you and who are in authority over you in the Lord and admonish you,
Young's Literal: And we ask you, brethren, to know those labouring among you, and leading you in the Lord, and admonishing you,



so from the above translation, we can perfectly see that those who labor in the Lord, "HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU". other words they are as you say leaders. please re-read these verses again.

knowing the definition of, "over", This word is very important

now to Roman 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also".

look at the word, "succourer", here. according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries it's the word,
G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pros-tat'-is) n.
1. a patroness, i.e. assistant
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer
Root(s): G4291

The KJV renders it here as succourer, Why?. this word succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), is the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, which is for the male in that position. see above, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-is"'-tay-mee) v. the Word of God must be searched, and research, to find the truth

Now in making that connection, these are those who, "RULE OVER YOU", those meaning the male, G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, and the female, G4368 προστάτις prostatis, they have the, "RULE OVER YOU, because their appointment is from the Lord. a succourer, (G4368 προστάτις prostatis), in the book of Romans, was Phebe our sister, which is also a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea. she was a succourer of the Apostle Paul, the feminine of the the proistemi G4291 προΐστημι proistemi, Male. now knowing that, lets go to the book of Philippians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life". here the Apostle Paul makes it clear that these women Euodias,and Syntyche, who Labour with him in the Gospel, are not just mere relief worker of the poor, but minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. knowing this, meaning you don't have to go and find this out, I have done the leg work for you, knowing this lets see others female ministers of the gospel.
Romans 16:7 " Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me". , Romans 16:12 "Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. all of these are women Labours in the Lord.

****** Just look at the list of all the Labours listed in Roman chapter 16 above, and fellower workers.

THANK justman. great point on chapter break.

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The point of women helping in the spread of the gospel is not at question in your OP. No one ever said women could not be helpers. In fact lets look here!

To the Romans passage:

Romans 16:1

1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;
2 that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.

This passage doves well with:

Genesis 2:18-20


18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”
19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.


Yes women can help, but they are not to be teachers of men or in positions of authority in regards to the church. Again the reason is of first order and the curse. Whereas men are the head of the household, and Christ the head of the husband, so too men are at the authority positions of the church and Christ is the head. God is the head of Christ.

Let us keep in mind this high calling given to women as God Himself is also a helper.

John 15:27-27

26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
27 and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

101G said:

to justman,
No one ever said women could not be helpers.
LOL, a helper is a laborer in the gospel, did you not know this?, I guess not. Oh well, Phebe is a servant/minister of the Gospel of Christ.

another crutch made useless,
Oh again, thanks for the break in chapters,

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Yet this does not equate to any authority position in the church or the status of teaching men in the church. And you are welcome about the chapter breaks, as you admit context is key.

For women to labor among men does not equate them having authority.

Lets look at the 1 Thessalonians 5:12 passage

12 But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction,

You intend to prove to equate anyone who labors in the church has authority over others in the church, yet this passage simply does not say that.

This quote from you is simply false"so from the above translation, we can perfectly see that those who labor in the Lord, "HAVE THE RULE OVER YOU". other words they are as you say leaders. please re-read these verses again."

I think you need to take your own advice and re-read the verse.

101G said:

Re-read your commentary on the verse

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The Bible Knowledge Commentary

5:12. The church leaders are probably the elders of the church in view of how they were described by Paul. These were men who worked hard to provide pastoral care for the flock, probably in their spare time since in the early church local church leaders often carried full-time jobs outside the church. These leaders are further described as being over you in the Lord. They had positions of spiritual leadership in the church and were responsible to God for those under their care (cf. Heb. 13:17). This responsibility included providing admonition as needed. Since Paul used the plural those to describe their leaders, there was more than one such person in the Thessalonian church, as in other churches to whom Paul wrote (cf. Phil. 1:1).
Paul gave three exhortations to the church regarding their proper attitude toward their leaders. First, they were to respect them. This term (eidenai) normally means “to know,” but here it includes appreciating and respecting them and their work.

The Pulpit Commentary

Ver. 12.—With this verse commences a new paragraph. The apostle adds in conclusion a few brief and somewhat miscellaneous exhortations. And we beseech you, brethren; an expression of earnestness and affection. To know; that is, to value, apprecrate, and esteem. Them which labour among you. It was Paul’s custom to organize the Churches which he had founded, and to appoint presbyters among them. Although the Church of Thessalonica had been so recently founded, yet it had its presbyters. And are over you. The presbyters, in virtue of their office, presided over the Christian assemblies. In the Lord; the sphere in which they were set over the Church; they were ordained to minister in sacred things. And admonish you. There are not three classes or orders of office-bearers here mentioned—those who laboured among them, those who presided over them, and those who admonished them (Macknight); but all these duties belonged to one class, namely, the presbyters.

The Pillar New Testament Commentary

Secondly, these leaders are those who are over you in the Lord. The translation of this word is problematic because it may highlight their leadership or point to those who protect and render aid to the church. The term frequently designated those who were leaders of communities or who functioned as guardians and heads of communities. For example, an inscription from Thessalonica dedicated to Marcus Anius speaks of him as the one who presided over (proistamenos, as in 1 Thess. 5:12) the koinon in Macedonia. The term similarly could be used to convey the meaning “to preside” or “govern” in 1 Timothy 3:4, 5, 12 and 5:17. On the other hand, the meaning “to protect” was quite common, as were the related meanings of “to help” or “to be concerned about” (see Titus 3:8, 14). The verb arises in discussions about benefaction since benefactors are those who render aid. Paul uses the substantive form of this verb to talk about Phoebe, who was the deaconess and benefactor or patron of the church in Cenchrea, and of himself as well (Rom. 16:1–2). In the case of 1 Thessalonians 5:12 as of Romans 12:8, difficulties arise when we try to decide between the concepts of rendering aid on the one hand and leadership and authority on the other. But in antiquity, “leadership” and “rendering aid” were not neatly separated ideas. Those who exercised leadership within the towns and villages, as well as in the empire itself, were those who served the population as benefactors. Political responsibility went hand in hand with benefaction toward the community. Given the common use of this term and the prominent place of patrons in the leadership of society at large, the most likely candidates for leaders in this young church were people like Jason, who served as both patron and leader within the church (Acts 17:5–9). Those who governed the church were at the same time the ones who sought her benefit and cared for her. In our text, the phrase in the Lord is linked specifically with this function of leadership. While leaders may have been benefactors, the authority and leadership they exercised derived from their relationship with the Lord (cf. 4:1; 2 Thess. 3:12).We should note that while Paul and his associates caution those in the church who would want to continue as dependent clients (4:11–12 and later in 2 Thess. 3:6–15), at the same time he commends true benefaction (4:9–10; 2 Thess. 3:13) toward those in genuine need (remember the offering for the needy believers in Jerusalem, which is discussed in 1 Cor. 16; 2 Cor. 8–9 and elsewhere).


None of these say what you intend, sorry.

This is taken about the 1Timothy 2:12 verse

Bible Knowledge Commentary


2:11–12. In emphasizing godly conduct for women, Paul stressed, with Peter, “the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight” (1 Peter 3:4). The females in the congregation should receive instruction from the male leadership with quietness and full submission. They should not attempt to turn the tables by clamoring for the office of congregational teacher or by grasping for authority over men. Rather they should, literally, “be in quietness.” The word, hēsychia, translated “quietness” in 1 Timothy 2:11 and silent in verse 12, does not mean complete silence or no talking. It is clearly used elsewhere (Acts 22:2; 2 Thes. 3:12) to mean “settled down, undisturbed, not unruly.” A different word (sigaō) means “to be silent, to say nothing” (cf. Luke 18:39; 1 Cor. 14:34).
2:13. Why is such a quiet and submissive spirit “of great worth in God’s sight”? (1 Peter 3:4) Because it manifests an understanding and acceptance of His design for the human race. As elsewhere (cf. 1 Cor. 11:8–10), Paul here based his view of male/female relationships in the church on the account of Creation recorded in Genesis 2. He made no reference whatever to the so-called “curse” of Genesis 3:16. Rather, the roles Paul spelled out here are a product of God’s fundamental design wherein Adam was formed first, then Eve (cf. Gen. 2:7–25). More is involved here than mere chronological priority. Paul saw the priority in time as indicative of the leadership given to the male, to which the woman, the “helper suitable for him” (Gen. 2:18), should respond.

Then New American Commentary


2:12 Paul referred to activities in the public meetings of the congregation, and he continued to speak of females in a primarily generic sense. The role of these women as wives and mothers, however, was not far from Paul’s mind. His comments call for three observations.
First, Paul did not permit a woman to teach. He used the Greek present tense for “I do not permit” (epitrepō). This tense indicates that Paul was delivering authoritative instructions for the situation he encountered at Ephesus, but it is tenuous to decide for or against the permanence of Paul’s injunctions based on the evidence of tense alone.
Teaching involved official doctrinal instruction in the Scriptures (1 Tim 5:17) and was a task delegated to the pastor-teacher (Eph 4:11). The heavy emphasis in the Pastorals on proper doctrine (1 Tim 1:10; 4:6, 13, 16; 6:1, 3; didaskalia) implies the need for a trusted source of doctrine. The fact that Paul next discussed the elder/overseer (3:1–7) who needed to be “able to teach” may have indicated that he viewed the occupant of the position as the official declarer of doctrine. Doubtless, the immediate occasion for Paul’s prohibition against teaching by the Ephesian women was due to their gullibility and instability (1 Tim 5:11–13; 2 Tim 3:6–7). However, Paul consistently refrained from appointing a woman to a place of authoritative teaching responsibility in a congregation.
Second, Paul did not permit a woman to “have authority over” a man. This rare word (authenteō) occurs here only in the New Testament, and its meaning is greatly disputed. The best evidence suggests that it refers to the authority a teacher has over those who are learning.
Why would it have concerned Paul if the teacher were a woman? Two reasons may have been in his mind. The first stems from the likelihood that the women would have authority over any other elder/overseer in the congregation. If the elder/overseer were under the authority of the woman teacher in the church, it could hinder his ability to manage his household in private; and hence it could hinder his ability to manage the church of God (1 Tim 3:4–5). Barnett points out that the submission of the elder/overseer to the woman teacher would limit his ability to serve as a role model to other married men in the church and could prove to be a liability.
A second reason may be related to Paul’s concerns about marriage and the raising of children. There is evidence in 1 Timothy that some women were neglecting their roles as wives and mothers (1 Tim 5:11–15). Paul may have feared that a combination of personal ambition and the demands of the office of elder/overseer would prevent the women from serving effectively as wives and mothers. He was perhaps taking steps to prevent this situation from developing further. Nothing in Paul’s words need be seen as a suggestion that women were incompetent to serve in the office of elder/overseer. His concern was for marriages in the church and the mothering role.
Third, Paul wanted the women to “be silent” (lit. “to be in silence”). The word for “silence” is identical to “quietness” in v. 11 and calls for the women to demonstrate a teachable spirit. Most modern translations suggest Paul intended that the women show their teachable attitude by remaining physically quiet (cf. “she must keep quiet,” Williams). It is more likely that Paul was banning disruptive behavior rather than enforcing complete silence on women in worship settings. (See 1 Cor 11:5, where Corinthian women prayed and/or prophesied.)
The role of the teacher mentioned in this passage is most closely linked with the office of the pastor or senior pastor in contemporary churches. The normative principle behind Paul’s directive is that the woman should not carry out the role of senior pastor. This does not amount to a prohibition against a woman’s teaching or against her ministry to men. The New Testament has examples of significant teaching roles by women (Acts 18:26—both Priscilla and Aquilla were involved; Titus 2:3–4; 2 Tim 1:5; 3:15—women teach the faith to other women and children; 1 Cor 11:4–5—women prayed and prophesied). Paul was not suggesting that the woman is incompetent to occupy the role of pastor/teacher. His concern related to the effect the woman’s position would have on marriages in the church and on the value of the mothering role. Paul would assert the value of the role of motherhood in v. 15. For additional discussion on the normative principles of this passage, see Excursus 2: Women in Ministry.

A Handbook on Paul's first letter to Timothy

The three ingredients of the behavior of women are: they should be learners, they should observe silence, and they should be submissive. So women should learn and not teach, since teaching in church was the exclusive function of men. This at least accents a feature of the early Christian community that makes it different from the Jewish synagogue, where instruction was reserved for men and boys. From the beginning of the Christian movement, women were included in instruction classes together with the men. But there was one condition: the women should learn in silence, which means that women were not allowed to speak at church meetings. Other ways to express learn in silence are “listen to the men’s teaching without asking questions” or “when the men are teaching them the Christian principles, the women should listen silently.” And finally, women should be submissive and should not have authority over men. Submissiveness includes the elements of recognition, subordination, and obedience; the addition of all indicates the intensity and extent of the submission; hence NRSV “learn … with full submission.” Or one may translate “be completely submissive to the authority of the men as teachers.” This perhaps means that the women should submit to the authority of the men as teachers and should accept with humility and obedience what is taught to them. The logical offshoot of this is that women should not teach men or have authority over them. To have authority translates a Greek verb that means “to control,” “to dominate,” “to control in a domineering manner.” It is suggested that the Greek word for have authority can mean “interrupt,” in which case what verse 12 is saying is that the women should remain completely quiet during the meetings and should not interrupt the men teachers in any way. This suggestion is attractive in view of the context. However, so far as we know, no modern translation reflects this understanding.
An alternative translation model for verses 11 and 12 is the following:
11 When the men are teaching them, the women should listen (or, learn) silently (or, without asking questions), recognizing the complete authority of the men. 12 I do not allow women to teach men or to dominate (or, have authority over) them. Women should remain silent when you meet together in worship.
One other thing that needs to be noted is that, from verse 11 on, the singular form woman is used, in contrast to verse 9, which has the plural form. If, however, it is more natural in the receptor language to use the plural form when talking about women in general, then the plural form can be used in verses 11, 12, and 15.

101G said:

This is taken about the 1Timothy 2:12 verse
just re-read my post on the verse,
another crutch taken away,

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The eisegesis you have done proves nothing, sorry but we will have to agree to disagree.

Christ's blessings!

101G said:

NO, sorry for you. those words, "we will have to agree to disagree", is a lie out of hell. if one agree to disagree, they are still in disagreement, that's agreeing to a lie. sorry not for me. scripture, Amos 3:3 "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
so that, "agree to disagree". is null and void for me. I will not partake of it. so I, in the name of the Lord Jesus will not comprise with false doctrine.

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This again proves your incorrect usage of scripture. Context, context, context.


2 “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth;
Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”
3 Do two men walk together unless they have made an appointment?
4 Does a lion roar in the forest when he has no prey?
Does a young lion growl from his den unless he has captured something?

What I have stated is we will have to stay in disagreement.

101G said:

my point is men and women can be pastors, with NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER OR MARTIAL STATUS.

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On the topic of women leading churches:

Paul (via Justaname), "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man."

You, "This [is] directed to wives ONLY..."

Me, "What's your point? That it's okay for single women to be pastors but not married women?"

You, "My point is men and women can be pastors, with NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER OR MARTIAL STATUS."

You're like a comedy routine.

Ruth said:

Sister Salene, the Holy Spirit is using you, thank you for submitting to God.

The scriptures are so clear on the matter of leadership of the church, they are to be male.

When a person does not want to submit to the truth of scripture they will do everything in their flesh to twist scripture to fit their sinful desire.

Can a women pastor over department in the church? Yes. But she can not shepherd over the body of the church.

Apostle Paul clearly states the order of headship...God, Jesus, husband, wife. Paul then goes on to say wives should demonstrate this in the church by covering their heads,....why because it is Spiritual, we are to do this as a witness to the angels.

I have started wearing a head covering when in church and prayer with other men.

The modern church has become to worldly. I am the only women in my church that still submits to this teaching.

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Wow!! I also wear a head covering to Church. A few of the women in my Church also wear a veil. We call the head covering a veil.

jiggyfly said:

Do you happen to have any scripture that states that women can be department pastors? If so what departments?

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A woman can be an assistant in Church. She serves the Church by helping out just as Phoebe did.

Romans 16:1-2 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

101G said:

2 Selene, & Ruth, Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ.

since you say the Holy Ghost is using you, and I say the Holy Ghost is in me also. then show me in the scriptures that I have posted my ERROR, Jeremiah 3:15, Joel 2:27 & 28, Acts chapter 2, and 1 Corinthians chapter 12.
Now if these scripture do not support my topic of Female Pastor, from these scripture point out the ERROR?

I'll be waiting for your answer

Love and Peace
101G

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None of those scriptures you quoted showed that God chose a female priest or pastor. All the priests of the Old Testament were men. God only chose the sons of Araon and Levi to be priests. He did not choose their daughters.

Exodus 31:10 And the cloths of service, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office,

Numbers 3:3 These [are] the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office.

The priest's office belonged only to men.

Selene said:

Wow!! I also wear a head covering to Church. A few of the women in my Church also wear a veil. We call the head covering a veil.


A woman can be an assistant in Church. She serves the Church by helping out just as Phoebe did.

Romans 16:1-2 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.



None of those scriptures you quoted showed that God chose a female priest or pastor. All the priests of the Old Testament were men. God only chose the sons of Araon and Levi to be priests. He did not choose their daughters.

Exodus 31:10 And the cloths of service, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office,

Numbers 3:3 These [are] the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office.

The priest's office belonged only to men.

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You said:
I also wear a head covering to Church. A few of the women in my Church also wear a veil. We call the head covering a veil.




JB: Now, things are clear. Praise the Lord! My heart rejoices in God my Savior.

SHALOM, Beloved of the LORD!

The Lord bless thee, and keep thee:The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

Selene said:

Wow!! I also wear a head covering to Church. A few of the women in my Church also wear a veil. We call the head covering a veil.

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I am impressed ladies. That is very respectful to God.