Sabbath-Keeping

zeke25 · May 11, 2015

heretoeternity said:
Before one can test someones "christianity", Zeke you should read the Bible carefully and pray to have your eyes opened to the truth, and to be able to understand it..it is not that complicated. But your seem to have problems understanding the basic English in the word of God...if anyone wishes to be a Christian they should get rid of all the false teachings they have endured from the Roman based mainstream "christianity", and start reading and understanding the simple word of God, as it is written...If anyone cannot understand the simple word of God, they have a spirit other than the Spirit of God leading them...
A word of advice Zeke, instead of looking for ways to get out of keeping God's Holy word and Commandments you should look for ways to repent and keep His Holy word if you truly want to walk the Christian walk....

And remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan nature.

heretoeternity,

You are apparently confused. Tell me, for clarity's sake, do you recommend that we give heed to the teachings of Ellen G. White? Do you think would should follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul?

And what is Roman Christianity supposed to be? It sounds like buzz words and phrases used by a secret group. And why are you talking to me about easter and sungod Sundays, etc.? What has that to do with me? Or did you hire a false psychic that supposedly read my mind (but missed it by a country mile)?

Zeke25

heretoeternity · May 11, 2015

You seem hung up on someone named Ellen White??? Why? My research indicates she observed God's Holy seventh day Sabbath, as did the Apostle Paul you mention..he kept the seventh day Sabbath throughout his ministry and life. Of course he would keep the seventh day Sabbath Holy, and observe it, because it is the word of God, which Paul taught...the trouble is people like yourself who have been taught false doctrine over the years, false doctrine which comes from Rome and the Babylonian Roman system, which now permeates the so called "christian" world...people such as yourself appear to be desperate to spread the false doctrine, to the point of knowingly misrepresenting the word of God, and specifically the teachings of Apostle Paul...Peter warned against this in 2nd Peter 3..thatpeople such as yourself who misinterpret Paul's teachings to their detriment..because of this I would again recomment you test the spirit you are following. Apostle John says you should do that...if you do not want to follow the word of God as it is written then the spirit is not from God according to Apostle John....but you have free will to follow any other spirit you want..your choice!

But remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

zeke25 · May 11, 2015

heretoeternity said:
You seem hung up on someone named Ellen White??? Why? My research indicates she observed God's Holy seventh day Sabbath, as did the Apostle Paul you mention..he kept the seventh day Sabbath throughout his ministry and life. Of course he would keep the seventh day Sabbath Holy, and observe it, because it is the word of God, which Paul taught...the trouble is people like yourself who have been taught false doctrine over the years, false doctrine which comes from Rome and the Babylonian Roman system, which now permeates the so called "christian" world...people such as yourself appear to be desperate to spread the false doctrine, to the point of knowingly misrepresenting the word of God, and specifically the teachings of Apostle Paul...Peter warned against this in 2nd Peter 3..thatpeople such as yourself who misinterpret Paul's teachings to their detriment..because of this I would again recomment you test the spirit you are following. Apostle John says you should do that...if you do not want to follow the word of God as it is written then the spirit is not from God according to Apostle John....but you have free will to follow any other spirit you want..your choice!

But remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

heretoeternity,

I am amazed at how many of you guys are running around in this forum like a chicken with its head cut off. All of you fancy yourselves to be mind readers and you haven't a clue. Besides, why is it that you can never address the Scriptures that I have referred you to? Instead, you read my mind and tell me what I think (and you haven't a clue). I will tell you why. Because you have no valid Biblical response. You have emotion and bafflegab and that is all. Don't expect any further response from me since you are unable to discuss Biblical doctrine and Scriptures coherently but mostly not at all.

BTW I am totally aware of what you mean by "Roman Christianity". I just wanted to see what your response would be.

BTW there is not a single Scripture that teaches that Paul was a sabbath keeper. I've read them all and it is not there.

Zeke25

Phoneman777 · May 11, 2015

justaname said:
Homosexuality is a sin that is not included in the ten. According to your logic, it should be able to be practiced. As well as pride...

It is not for the one who loves God to act against Him, yet the Sabbath is for the nation people of Israel.

Homosexuality is a perversion that falls under the principle of the 7th commandment, is at the core of idolatrous pagan worship which violates the 2nd (opens the "third eye" according to Occult Science), and has been proven to shorten life expectancy which violates the 6th. I see you are still as reluctant as Zeke to publicly declare that we may break every other of the Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath while simultaneously insisting that the Ten no longer apply to Christians - cannot you see how unbelievably inconsistent and illogical that position is? It's like trying to simultaneously drive forward and in reverse.

zeke25 · May 11, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
Homosexuality is a perversion that falls under the principle of the 7th commandment, is at the core of idolatrous pagan worship which violates the 2nd (opens the "third eye" according to Occult Science), and has been proven to shorten life expectancy which violates the 6th. I see you are still as reluctant as Zeke to publicly declare that we may break every other of the Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath while simultaneously insisting that the Ten no longer apply to Christians - cannot you see how unbelievably inconsistent and illogical that position is? It's like trying to simultaneously drive forward and in reverse.

phoneguy,

The Scriptures tell us that liars will go to hell. You are one of them. You should learn to fear God and repent of your lying.

justaname · May 11, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
Homosexuality is a perversion that falls under the principle of the 7th commandment, is at the core of idolatrous pagan worship which violates the 2nd (opens the "third eye" according to Occult Science), and has been proven to shorten life expectancy which violates the 6th. I see you are still as reluctant as Zeke to publicly declare that we may break every other of the Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath while simultaneously insisting that the Ten no longer apply to Christians - cannot you see how unbelievably inconsistent and illogical that position is? It's like trying to simultaneously drive forward and in reverse.

Again, homosexuality is not apportioned to the ten, but you claim the law is no longer valid. You are the one being inconsistent. Claiming homosexuality is the same as idolatry is grasping at straws.

If you want to make a challenge you should be able to withstand the same challenge. You affirm your challenge to be absurd through your inconsistent stance.

I have effectively and biblically refuted every claim and false notion presented in this thread...but a man argued from his position against his will, when he leaves is of his opinion still.

May God guide you into all truth in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Shalom

heretoeternity · May 12, 2015

heretoeternity,

I am amazed at how many of you guys are running around in this forum like a chicken with its head cut off. All of you fancy yourselves to be mind readers and you haven't a clue. Besides, why is it that you can never address the Scriptures that I have referred you to? Instead, you read my mind and tell me what I think (and you haven't a clue). I will tell you why. Because you have no valid Biblical response. You have emotion and bafflegab and that is all. Don't expect any further response from me since you are unable to discuss Biblical doctrine and Scriptures coherently but mostly not at all.

BTW I am totally aware of what you mean by "Roman Christianity". I just wanted to see what your response would be.

BTW there is not a single Scripture that teaches that Paul was a sabbath keeper. I've read them all and it is not there.

Zeke25

Zeke: try reading Acts 13, 16, 17 as examples of Paul observing God's Holy seventh day Sabbath over a long period of time.

And remember, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan nature.

Jun2u · May 12, 2015

You missed post #81 on page 3. All of your answers are there. In fact, there is enough material there to destroy any pretense of any sabbath keeper here. None, absolutely none, have refuted even one Scripture in post 81. Most are simply too lazy to even read it, their meager attention spans cannot grasp it. Besides, it is of no value to them since they have no intention of changing their minds about anything.

The sabbath wasn't given until Exodus 16:23. God never changed the sabbath from where it is to another day of the week - I'd like to see your Scriptures that show otherwise. No one has to keep the sabbath anymore, not Jews, not Gentiles, no one. Sabbath Keeping has nothing to do with salvation.

Zeke25

Zeke25,

Read your post #81 and except for your faulty understanding on some passages there were really nothing to refute as all scripture references you laid out did pertain to the sabbath.

God changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath and the scripture reference can be found in Mt 28:1. Although cannot be seen in the English language it most certainly can be seen in the Greek.

School taught us that a singular word, in any language can't be translated into a plural word or vise-versa, yet this was done by the translators of the KJV! Are you aware that a word that is italicized in the KJV means that that italicized word was not in the original manuscript?

Why the translators of the KJV made this error in translation I have no idea, but most importantly, why did God allowed it to happen? To foster unbelief, maybe?

Mt 28:1 reads:

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

THE CORRECT TRANSLATION

In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

NOTE how I changed the singular word “sabbath” into the plural word “sabbaths”, and translated the word “week” also into the plural word “sabbaths”. Why? Because the words “sabbaths” and “week” in the Greek are both the identical plural word “Sabaton”!

We don't have to know Greek to understand scriptures as long as we have Strong's and Young's Concordances. BTW, if anyone wants to check me out the word “sabbath” is #4521 in Strong's concordance.

NOTE too, the word “day” is omitted because it is italicized hence was not in the original manuscript.

THE INTERPRETATION

As the end of the Old Testament era of sabbaths was coming to an end and will become obsolete a New Testament era of sabbaths has begun to dawn (to come into view) to which that Sunday Morning Resurrection of Jesus was the first Sunday Sabbath of the new era of sabbaths to come.

Same idea applies to Mr 16:1-2, except the word sabbath in verse one is a singular word but the word week in verse two however is a plural word.

Likewise, the same can be said of Lk 24:1 as the word week is a plural word.

And the same idea in Jo 20:1.

In the four Gospels, except in Mark the words sabbath and week are all plural words, and the word day is always italicized.

Can anyone see the spiritual significance as God rested from His work of creation on the first seventh day of the Old Testament, and even in death, still rested from His work on the very last seventh day of the Old Testament? How awesome is that?

Does this mean we no longer have to observe the sabbath? Of course not or why would God change it from Saturday to Sunday?

There are those that say the sabbath is not for them because it was given to Israel only. These people are ignorant. They have no idea that God gave the Bible to mankind therefore, the contents of the Bible is subject to all.

There are many more aspects to the observance of the sabbath that is not understood by those who posts on this thread, especially the question of salvation.

To God Be The Glory

justaname · May 12, 2015

Jun2u said:
Zeke25,

Read your post #81 and except for your faulty understanding on some passages there were really nothing to refute as all scripture references you laid out did pertain to the sabbath.

God changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath and the scripture reference can be found in Mt 28:1. Although cannot be seen in the English language it most certainly can be seen in the Greek.

School taught us that a singular word, in any language can't be translated into a plural word or vise-versa, yet this was done by the translators of the KJV! Are you aware that a word that is italicized in the KJV means that that italicized word was not in the original manuscript?

Why the translators of the KJV made this error in translation I have no idea, but most importantly, why did God allowed it to happen? To foster unbelief, maybe?

Mt 28:1 reads:

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

THE CORRECT TRANSLATION

In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

NOTE how I changed the singular word “sabbath” into the plural word “sabbaths”, and translated the word “week” also into the plural word “sabbaths”. Why? Because the words “sabbaths” and “week” in the Greek are both the identical plural word “Sabaton”!

We don't have to know Greek to understand scriptures as long as we have Strong's and Young's Concordances. BTW, if anyone wants to check me out the word “sabbath” is #4521 in Strong's concordance.

NOTE too, the word “day” is omitted because it is italicized hence was not in the original manuscript.

THE INTERPRETATION

As the end of the Old Testament era of sabbaths was coming to an end and will become obsolete a New Testament era of sabbaths has begun to dawn (to come into view) to which that Sunday Morning Resurrection of Jesus was the first Sunday Sabbath of the new era of sabbaths to come.

Same idea applies to Mr 16:1-2, except the word sabbath in verse one is a singular word but the word week in verse two however is a plural word.

Likewise, the same can be said of Lk 24:1 as the word week is a plural word.

And the same idea in Jo 20:1.

In the four Gospels, except in Mark the words sabbath and week are all plural words, and the word day is always italicized.

Can anyone see the spiritual significance as God rested from His work of creation on the first seventh day of the Old Testament, and even in death, still rested from His work on the very last seventh day of the Old Testament? How awesome is that?

Does this mean we no longer have to observe the sabbath? Of course not or why would God change it from Saturday to Sunday?

There are those that say the sabbath is not for them because it was given to Israel only. These people are ignorant. They have no idea that God gave the Bible to mankind therefore, the contents of the Bible is subject to all.

There are many more aspects to the observance of the sabbath that is not understood by those who posts on this thread, especially the question of salvation.

To God Be The Glory

Could you please expand on the final statement? Surly you are not claiming a gospel based on works are you?

zeke25 · May 12, 2015

heretoeternity said:
Zeke: try reading Acts 13, 16, 17 as examples of Paul observing God's Holy seventh day Sabbath over a long period of time.

And remember, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan nature.

heretoeternity,

What unmitigated condescension, "try reading". As if I haven't read them more times than your years on this planet. Point out a single Scripture in these chapters that prove your point and we'll discuss the individual Scripture. Your blanket approach proves nothing. Paul did not observe the seventh day sabbath as was required under the Torah. Show me the single verse that proves otherwise.

You praised Ellen White for teaching sabbath observance, but you missed the most important factor that sitting under her teachings has done to you. You have become biblically illiterate. You cannot exegete Acts 13, 16, & 17, nor much of anything else.

And in regards to your little quip at the end of your posts: "Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments". I think not. You have it all confused. This is not a works salvation.
2 Co 10:17-18 KJV,
17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Zeke25

UppsalaDragby · May 12, 2015

heretoeternity said:
Zeke: try reading Acts 13, 16, 17 as examples of Paul observing God's Holy seventh day Sabbath over a long period of time.

No they are not! Just as Zeke points out, there is nothing in those chapters that supports your claim. Paul taught on the Jewish sabbath for absolutely obvious reasons.

Phoneman777

Do you have any response to my previous post?

Does anyone?

Why, when scripture explicitly teaches us that the Sabbath commandment was NOT known, or given, to anyone other than those at Sinai, do you insist the opposite???

Why, when I have dealt with each and every argument that sabbatarians have posted here, are mine being ignored?

Why, when scripture warns us agiant adding to scripture, do sabbatarians repeatedly do so, without heeding to any warning given to them?

Why, when scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law, do sabbatarians teach the opposite?

Why is no one adressing this?

Scripture teaches us that the old covenant is obsolete for us.

Why is no one adressing that?

Why are there no sabbatarians around here, or anywhere else I have seen, that can meet the challenges I have made?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the law was not made for the righteous but for those who resist the gospel, do sabbatarians stubbornly insist that it appies to us?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments brings death and condemnation - which stands in total opposition to the gospel message, which teaches us that there is NO condemnation and NO death for those who are in Christ, stubbornly insist that we still need to listen to such a ministry?

Guys, please!!! STOP CONTRADICTING SCRIPTURE!!

Jun2u · May 12, 2015

justaname,

On the contrary, I do not advocate to a works gospel, but many who posts in the Christianity Board Forum do. I don't believe they understand the nature of salvation.

Many in this forum and in most denominations of the world speak and teach that Jesus did all the work of salvation but in reality are only paying lip service.

For instance, there are those that say to become saved you must believe, have faith in, confess...etc., and yet believing and having faith in are works that man perform (I Th 1:3) therefore, contrary to Eph 2:8-9, and most of all contrary to Ro 3:10-12.

If God's assessment that no one seeks after Him, who then can believe? NONE!

THE ONLY ONES THAT WILL BELIEVE AND BECOME SAVED ARE THOSE THAT THE FATHER HAVE DRAWN AND GIVEN TO THE LORD JESUS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! John 6:44.

God willing and when time permits it, I will get to your question on how to reconcile the sabbath with salvation

To God Be The Glory

zeke25 · May 12, 2015

Jun2u said:
Zeke25,

Read your post #81 and except for your faulty understanding on some passages there were really nothing to refute as all scripture references you laid out did pertain to the sabbath.

God changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath and the scripture reference can be found in Mt 28:1. Although cannot be seen in the English language it most certainly can be seen in the Greek.

School taught us that a singular word, in any language can't be translated into a plural word or vise-versa, yet this was done by the translators of the KJV! Are you aware that a word that is italicized in the KJV means that that italicized word was not in the original manuscript?

Why the translators of the KJV made this error in translation I have no idea, but most importantly, why did God allowed it to happen? To foster unbelief, maybe?

Mt 28:1 reads:

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

THE CORRECT TRANSLATION

In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

NOTE how I changed the singular word “sabbath” into the plural word “sabbaths”, and translated the word “week” also into the plural word “sabbaths”. Why? Because the words “sabbaths” and “week” in the Greek are both the identical plural word “Sabaton”!

We don't have to know Greek to understand scriptures as long as we have Strong's and Young's Concordances. BTW, if anyone wants to check me out the word “sabbath” is #4521 in Strong's concordance.

NOTE too, the word “day” is omitted because it is italicized hence was not in the original manuscript.

THE INTERPRETATION

As the end of the Old Testament era of sabbaths was coming to an end and will become obsolete a New Testament era of sabbaths has begun to dawn (to come into view) to which that Sunday Morning Resurrection of Jesus was the first Sunday Sabbath of the new era of sabbaths to come.

Same idea applies to Mr 16:1-2, except the word sabbath in verse one is a singular word but the word week in verse two however is a plural word.

Likewise, the same can be said of Lk 24:1 as the word week is a plural word.

And the same idea in Jo 20:1.

In the four Gospels, except in Mark the words sabbath and week are all plural words, and the word day is always italicized.

Can anyone see the spiritual significance as God rested from His work of creation on the first seventh day of the Old Testament, and even in death, still rested from His work on the very last seventh day of the Old Testament? How awesome is that?

Does this mean we no longer have to observe the sabbath? Of course not or why would God change it from Saturday to Sunday?

There are those that say the sabbath is not for them because it was given to Israel only. These people are ignorant. They have no idea that God gave the Bible to mankind therefore, the contents of the Bible is subject to all.

There are many more aspects to the observance of the sabbath that is not understood by those who posts on this thread, especially the question of salvation.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u,

Jun2u said: “God changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath and the scripture reference can be found in Mt 28:1.”

zeke25 replies: The sabbath is the sabbath. There is no such animal as a Sunday sabbath. This is a figment of imagination in the minds of fallen men. It is not even worthy of debate. The day men choose to give special attention to religious duties (as they perceive them to be) has nothing to do with the sabbath. The weekly sabbath is the 7th day of a “perfect” week, always was and always will be. But then again, one must know what a “perfect” week is. Some translations use “complete” week. This is the same as a perfect week. Therefore, God never changed anything. The sabbath is the sabbath*, no more, no less. Sunday is not a weekly sabbath, Sunday is Sunday, no more, no less.

*NOTE: I do not mean that the sabbath was always an ordinance. It became an ordinance in Exodus 16:23, it stopped being an ordinance when Christ expired on the tree. I mean that there was always a seventh day of a perfect week. We call it Saturday, because that is the slot in falls into. When the sabbath was in effect, it fell into the Saturday slot during a perfect week as well.

Jun2u said: “God changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath and the scripture reference can be found in Mt 28:1. Although cannot be seen in the English language it most certainly can be seen in the Greek.”

Zeke25 reply: It cannot be seen in any language, because God did not change the sabbath in Mt. 28:1. Here is a little info on Mt. 28:1:

Matthew 28:1 TIB, "After the sabbaths, at the dawning (Strong's G2020 epiphosko) into the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the grave." "After the sabbaths" refers to the two sabbaths of (1) Passover and (2) the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which was an annual sabbath as well as a weekly sabbath. "At the dawning" means that there was evidence on the eastern horizon that the sun was soon to rise. In fact, the Greek word for dawning is epiphosko and its meaning is to begin to grow light. "Into the first of the sabbaths" means that the coming day was Sunday Abib 16 (Sheaf Wave Day*), and that it was the first day of the first week in which the counting of seven perfect* sabbaths was to begin. What all of this shows is that it was still Saturday night Abib 15, prior to Sunday Abib 16 sunrise.

Jun2u: “As the end of the Old Testament era of sabbaths was coming to an end and will become obsolete a New Testament era of sabbaths has begun to dawn (to come into view) to which that Sunday Morning Resurrection of Jesus was the first Sunday Sabbath of the new era of sabbaths to come.”

Zeke25: I hope you came up with this idea yourself, because if you did I’m glad that you’re trying to figure things out. But your sincerity does not make it right. In fact, it is totally from outerspace and has nothing to do with changing a sabbath. Now, on the other hand, if someone taught you this nonsense, they need to be tarred and feathered.

Zeke25

And once again, would you guys knock this stuff off. There was no Sunday resurrection. All four gospels teach that it occurred prior to sunrise, therefore it happened Saturday night. I will post the info again if you want.
Zeke25

justaname · May 13, 2015

Jun2u said:
justaname,

On the contrary, I do not advocate to a works gospel, but many who posts in the Christianity Board Forum do. I don't believe they understand the nature of salvation.

Many in this forum and in most denominations of the world speak and teach that Jesus did all the work of salvation but in reality are only paying lip service.

For instance, there are those that say to become saved you must believe, have faith in, confess...etc., and yet believing and having faith in are works that man perform (I Th 1:3) therefore, contrary to Eph 2:8-9, and most of all contrary to Ro 3:10-12.

If God's assessment that no one seeks after Him, who then can believe? NONE!

THE ONLY ONES THAT WILL BELIEVE AND BECOME SAVED ARE THOSE THAT THE FATHER HAVE DRAWN AND GIVEN TO THE LORD JESUS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! John 6:44.

God willing and when time permits it, I will get to your question on how to reconcile the sabbath with salvation

To God Be The Glory

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." - Romans 10:9-11

Faith is not a work...having to obey the Sabbath is...

Phoneman777 · May 13, 2015

UppsalaDragby said:
No they are not! Just as Zeke points out, there is nothing in those chapters that supports your claim. Paul taught on the Jewish sabbath for absolutely obvious reasons.

Phoneman777

Do you have any response to my previous post?

Does anyone?

Why, when scripture explicitly teaches us that the Sabbath commandment was NOT known, or given, to anyone other than those at Sinai, do you insist the opposite???

Why, when I have dealt with each and every argument that sabbatarians have posted here, are mine being ignored?

Why, when scripture warns us agiant adding to scripture, do sabbatarians repeatedly do so, without heeding to any warning given to them?

Why, when scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law, do sabbatarians teach the opposite?

Why is no one adressing this?

Scripture teaches us that the old covenant is obsolete for us.

Why is no one adressing that?

Why are there no sabbatarians around here, or anywhere else I have seen, that can meet the challenges I have made?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the law was not made for the righteous but for those who resist the gospel, do sabbatarians stubbornly insist that it appies to us?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments brings death and condemnation - which stands in total opposition to the gospel message, which teaches us that there is NO condemnation and NO death for those who are in Christ, stubbornly insist that we still need to listen to such a ministry?

Guys, please!!! STOP CONTRADICTING SCRIPTURE!!

The only contradictions in here are people who claim Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but won't publicly state that we may freely break them. All that any of you need to do to shut me up is to simply get off the fence and publicly declare that we may worship false gods, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc., if you've got the courage to do so, that is.

Jun2u · May 14, 2015

justaname,

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." - Romans 10:9-11

Faith is not a work...having to obey the Sabbath is...

Ro 10: 9-11 is the RESULT of salvation and not the CAUSE for salvation!

God wrote: “ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: w ho can know it”? Jer 17:9

We can obey to do Ro 10: 9-11 only if it is God who will work in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Php 2: 13.

“Faith is not a work”.. is a false statement. God wrote it in I Th 1: 3 and to Him you must contend with. You are displaying arrogance by trying to know more than God.

“Having to obey the Sabbath is”..again is a false statement only because you do not see the relation between the Sabbath and Salvation.

HINT: Why do you suppose the punishment is so severe by doing work on the sabbath as to be stoned to death like the man who picked up sticks in Nu 15: 33-36?

Nu 15 33:36 are the key passages in understanding the true nature of the Sabbath.

To God Be The Glory

UppsalaDragby · May 14, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
The only contradictions in here are people who claim Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but won't publicly state that we may freely break them. All that any of you need to do to shut me up is to simply get off the fence and publicly declare that we may worship false gods, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc., if you've got the courage to do so, that is.

Phoneman777, I am appealing to you to be HONEST here!

If I hadn't presented any contradictions here, then you would easily have gone through my list of questions one by one and deal with them in the same way that I have dealt with SDA arguments - using scripture. You choose, once again, NOT to do so, preferring to make a sweeping statemant that you DON'T back up with scripture.

So where are the scriptures that proves that Christians are obligated to keep the 10 commandments?

And where are the scriptures that show that I am presenting contradictions?

There are none!

That we are obligated to keep a moral standard that is in keeping with the law of Christ, which covers and totally fulfills the complete demands of Mosaic law is one thing, but that in no way equates to being under a law that scripture explicitly teaches us that we are no longer under.

If your point is that the Law of Christ does not fulfill the law of Moses, then please provide scripture that teaches us that. If not they explain what the Law of Christ lacks. No one who takes the Law of Christ seriosly claims that we are free to lie, cheat, murder and steal, so the SDA's favorite arguments all fail in one easy sweep. So try to figure out something else that you think might work!

All that any of you need to do to shut me up is to simply get off the fence and publicly declare that we may worship false gods, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc., if you've got the courage to do so, that is.

Oh yeah... just as I pointed out. The famous string of SDA strawmen that you cannot defend. No one is trying to "shut you up". What I am trying to do is the exact opposite - to get you to respong appropriately - where appropriately in this case is with scripture.

Where is it Phoneman????

Since you ignored my questions, here they are once again:

Do you have any response to my previous post?

Does anyone?

Why, when scripture explicitly teaches us that the Sabbath commandment was NOT known, or given, to anyone other than those at Sinai, do you insist the opposite???

Why, when I have dealt with each and every argument that sabbatarians have posted here, are mine being ignored?

Why, when scripture warns us agiant adding to scripture, do sabbatarians repeatedly do so, without heeding to any warning given to them?

Why, when scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law, do sabbatarians teach the opposite?

Why is no one adressing this?

Scripture teaches us that the old covenant is obsolete for us.

Why is no one adressing that?

Why are there no sabbatarians around here, or anywhere else I have seen, that can meet the challenges I have made?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the law was not made for the righteous but for those who resist the gospel, do sabbatarians stubbornly insist that it appies to us?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments brings death and condemnation - which stands in total opposition to the gospel message, which teaches us that there is NO condemnation and NO death for those who are in Christ, stubbornly insist that we still need to listen to such a ministry?

Please stop being evasive and answer the questions!

justaname · May 14, 2015

Jun2u said:
justaname,

Ro 10: 9-11 is the RESULT of salvation and not the CAUSE for salvation!

God wrote: “ The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: w ho can know it”? Jer 17:9

We can obey to do Ro 10: 9-11 only if it is God who will work in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Php 2: 13.

“Faith is not a work”.. is a false statement. God wrote it in I Th 1: 3 and to Him you must contend with. You are displaying arrogance by trying to know more than God.

“Having to obey the Sabbath is”..again is a false statement only because you do not see the relation between the Sabbath and Salvation.

HINT: Why do you suppose the punishment is so severe by doing work on the sabbath as to be stoned to death like the man who picked up sticks in Nu 15: 33-36?

Nu 15 33:36 are the key passages in understanding the true nature of the Sabbath.

To God Be The Glory

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. - Galatians 5:6
This is what Paul means through his usage. A working faith. Or the work of faith in you. The work of faith is hope.

Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." - John 6:29

As you can see faith is the work of God. God has given the measure of faith. Here I believe we agree, yet the Scriptures say whosoever believes...

There is no way to reconcile practice of the Sabboth as a work. No matter how you twist your understanding. In the end it is an obligation added to the gospel. Thereby it is a false gospel.

Shalom

UD,

That we are obligated to keep a moral standard that is in keeping with the law of Christ, which covers and totally fulfills the complete demands of Mosaic law is one thing, but that in no way equates to being under a law that scripture explicitly teaches us that we are no longer under.

This is the crux of the argument. Good show here!

zeke25 · May 14, 2015

Phoneman777 said:
The only contradictions in here are people who claim Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but won't publicly state that we may freely break them. All that any of you need to do to shut me up is to simply get off the fence and publicly declare that we may worship false gods, engage in idolatry, kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc., if you've got the courage to do so, that is.

Phoneguy,
The only one worshipping a false god here is you. The Torah is not a god.

2 Corinthians 3:7 KJV, “But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”

2 Corinthians 3:8 KJV, “How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”

2 Corinthians 3:9 KJV, “For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.”

"The Spirit" written in 2 Co 3:8 is a reference to the Holy Spirit, Who is God. You fail to fear God and worship Him. Instead, you worship and serve a false god - the Torah.

You worship a schoolmaster, which is no god at all.

Galatians 3:24-25 KJV, "24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Any worship you falsely claim to give to the One True God is in vain, because you teach the commandments of men.

Matthew 15:9 KJV, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

You worship false gods. You are no different than the Hebrews. They worshipped an ephod, a brazen serpent, and a golden calf. You worship the same sort of thing, you worship a stone with graven images imbedded into it by the finger of God.

1. Do you worship an ephod? The Hebrews did as told in Judges 8:27 KJV, "And Gideon made an ephod thereof, and put it in his city, even in Ophrah: and all Israel went thither a whoring after it: which thing became a snare unto Gideon, and to his house." Do you worship a brazen serpent? The Hebrews did as told in 2 Kings 18:4 KJV, "He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan." These things were worshipped because leaders, appointed by God, made these items for a specific spiritual purpose, but then the Hebrews wanted something physical instead.

2. Do you worship a golden calf? The Hebrews did as told in Exodus 32:3-5 KJV, "3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. 4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to [Yahowah]." Aaron, their high priest, the first high priest of the sons of Israel, even made this golden calf to worship and gave credit to the only real God, Yahowah. He led these people to dance and play around this calf. He was mixing two religions and obviously felt he was doing Israel and God a service. This is what people are still doing today. They are mixing two religions - the gospel of man and the gospel of God - and they think they are doing God a service.

Phoneguy, you cannot understand these things because you have not the Spirit of the Living God. You have only the brainwashing you have received from the hands of fallen men (and woman). You preach the gospel of man, not the gospel of God. Repent, and turn to God Almighty and His Son.

Zeke25

brakelite · May 15, 2015

UppsalaDragby said:
Phoneman777, I am appealing to you to be HONEST here!

If I hadn't presented any contradictions here, then you would easily have gone through my list of questions one by one and deal with them in the same way that I have dealt with SDA arguments - using scripture. You choose, once again, NOT to do so, preferring to make a sweeping statemant that you DON'T back up with scripture.

So where are the scriptures that proves that Christians are obligated to keep the 10 commandments?

And where are the scriptures that show that I am presenting contradictions?

There are none!

That we are obligated to keep a moral standard that is in keeping with the law of Christ, which covers and totally fulfills the complete demands of Mosaic law is one thing, but that in no way equates to being under a law that scripture explicitly teaches us that we are no longer under.

If your point is that the Law of Christ does not fulfill the law of Moses, then please provide scripture that teaches us that. If not they explain what the Law of Christ lacks. No one who takes the Law of Christ seriosly claims that we are free to lie, cheat, murder and steal, so the SDA's favorite arguments all fail in one easy sweep. So try to figure out something else that you think might work!

Oh yeah... just as I pointed out. The famous string of SDA strawmen that you cannot defend. No one is trying to "shut you up". What I am trying to do is the exact opposite - to get you to respong appropriately - where appropriately in this case is with scripture.

Where is it Phoneman????

Since you ignored my questions, here they are once again:

Do you have any response to my previous post?

Does anyone?

Why, when scripture explicitly teaches us that the Sabbath commandment was NOT known, or given, to anyone other than those at Sinai, do you insist the opposite???

Why, when I have dealt with each and every argument that sabbatarians have posted here, are mine being ignored?

Why, when scripture warns us agiant adding to scripture, do sabbatarians repeatedly do so, without heeding to any warning given to them?

Why, when scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law, do sabbatarians teach the opposite?

Why is no one adressing this?

Scripture teaches us that the old covenant is obsolete for us.

Why is no one adressing that?

Why are there no sabbatarians around here, or anywhere else I have seen, that can meet the challenges I have made?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the law was not made for the righteous but for those who resist the gospel, do sabbatarians stubbornly insist that it appies to us?

Why, when scripture teaches us that the ministry of the 10 commandments brings death and condemnation - which stands in total opposition to the gospel message, which teaches us that there is NO condemnation and NO death for those who are in Christ, stubbornly insist that we still need to listen to such a ministry?

Please stop being evasive and answer the questions!

I did Uppsala give a scriptural answer to your challenges, which you chose to reject. But that's fine, you are free to accept or reject God's word as you see fit. (I speak to that discussion we had re being 'under the law'. Your unscriptural answer was to the effect that God's Ten Commandments are not 'moral'. )
Now to your above assertion that God commandments do not apply to the Christian, or that the Christian is not obligated to obey the commandment (for example) "thou shalt not commit adultery". Now you would claim that those commandments only apply to those at Mt Sinai, because it was to them that they were given. Tell me then, to whom does the following apply?
Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
You claim that your arguments are being ignored, while you deem it appropriate to ignore that 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

justaname said:
UD,

That we are obligated to keep a moral standard that is in keeping with the law of Christ, which covers and totally fulfills the complete demands of Mosaic law is one thing, but that in no way equates to being under a law that scripture explicitly teaches us that we are no longer under.

This is the crux of the argument. Good show here!

Please can you tell us what the moral standard is and where did you get it from?

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