Sabbath-Keeping

Phoneman777 said:

The seventh day Sabbath rest was created in Eden as a memorial to Creation when there was no sin - there were no shadows because all was light. The "sabbath shadows" you speak of were the "feast days" which were instituted "besides the (weekly) Sabbaths of the Lord thy God." Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV

These were nailed to the Cross, but the Sabbath remains, the Church kept the Sabbath everywhere but was gradually replace with Sunday by ROME, and the Sabbath will be kept for all eternity. We all would do well to live down here as in the manner we will up there.

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Check your sources, there is no seventh day Sabbath observance in Eden, you got some bad info there sorry. All else stands as fact as I posted, and so does my Sabbath Rest Continue Forever

whitestone said:

Check your sources, there is no seventh day Sabbath observance in Eden, you got some bad info there sorry. All else stands as fact as I posted, and so does my Sabbath Rest Continue Forever

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While it is clear that before Exodus 16, there is no record of anyone but God resting on the seventh day, the question is was the Sabbath created in Eden when there were no shadows of darkness because all was light? Many say "no", but please consider this:

God would not bless the seventh day more than once because after blessing it, the day remains blessed forever (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV). Therefore, if the seventh day was blessed in Eden, then the blessing of the seventh day Sabbath spoken of at Sinai was not bestowed then, but 2,500 years before in Eden as well, proving an Edenic existence of the Sabbath. In other words, the verses describing the blessing of the seventh day Sabbath at Sinai are not setting forth a new institution, but are merely providing the historic background of an already existing institution to a nation just freed from pagan bondage that had just learned of it.

Therefore, the Sabbath was not a shadow, but a memorial to Creation and that is why we will be observing this "forever blessed day" in heaven each week, my friend.

Phoneman777 said:

OK, have it your way. However, I cannot debate anyone who claims that "Old Covenant" is interchangeable with "the Law" because Romans 3:31 KJV proves this popular idea false. The Ten Commandments remain for Christians to obey because they love Jesus, and those who refuse to keep them evidence their hatred for Jesus, no matter what they profess.

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

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Phoneman - what you are saying is the OT Covenant has nothing to do with Mosiac Law.
I cannot for a minute believe you agree with this...even though pride may say otherwise.
F2F

Phoneman777 said:

While it is clear that before Exodus 16, there is no record of anyone but God resting on the seventh day, the question is was the Sabbath created in Eden when there were no shadows of darkness because all was light? Many say "no", but please consider this:

God would not bless the seventh day more than once because after blessing it, the day remains blessed forever (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV). Therefore, if the seventh day was blessed in Eden, then the blessing of the seventh day Sabbath spoken of at Sinai was not bestowed then, but 2,500 years before in Eden as well, proving an Edenic existence of the Sabbath. In other words, the verses describing the blessing of the seventh day Sabbath at Sinai are not setting forth a new institution, but are merely providing the historic background of an already existing institution to a nation just freed from pagan bondage that had just learned of it.

Therefore, the Sabbath was not a shadow, but a memorial to Creation and that is why we will be observing this "forever blessed day" in heaven each week, my friend.

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I don't accept such logic. That would be like saying that all the other aspects of the "blessed" Law of Moses were "observed" in the garden of Eden as well and remain in their "shadow form" forever. All shadows and types, of which the Sabbath rest was one, pointed forward to when Jesus fulfilled all the shadows and types, and abolished them, being the ACTUAL ONE of whom these things foretold. Read Hebrews four, you can see that we are in the land of Rest now, unless our faithlessness prevents us from Resting in the Eternal Sabbath Day of Rest in Christ.
We don't participate in the pre-show as though the previews are as important as the show, if I can use a modern parallel. The Sabbath Rest seventh Day observance, was like a movie preview "trailer". It shows us basic high points. It was only a once a week thing then. It pointed forward to the full show to come. Then, when we take in the show finally, (Jesus), we don't ignore what and who Jesus is by going back to the weak "previews" that never show the ending. I hope this helps.

Phoneman777 said:

OK, have it your way. However, I cannot debate anyone who claims that "Old Covenant" is interchangeable with "the Law" because Romans 3:31 KJV proves this popular idea false. The Ten Commandments remain for Christians to obey because they love Jesus, and those who refuse to keep them evidence their hatred for Jesus, no matter what they profess.

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

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If you are going to use 1 John 2:3-4 as if validating the keeping of the sabbath day, then you better go see which of His commandments that John was actually referring to, brother. John would not speak of His commandments so blandly or in general unless he was going to cite them as to what those actual commandments are; and here it is.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So no keeping of the sabbath day commandment was mentioned here, and no, John was not negligent either.

But I will ask you this: How do you keep the sabbath day holy in these latter days? Do you enjoy services that requires people to work on the sabbath day & that includes the internet?

So if any one was seeking to be justified by the law of keeping the sabbath day holy, they will be judged by it, right?

And yet our righteousness is not of the law, but of faith in Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness that is bringing us Home wherein no flesh shall glory in His Presence.... that means there will be no saint boasting about how he had kept the sabbath day holy.

We are free to worship on the sabbath day or on Sunday or any day. We are free to have a rest day on any day of the week since there are alot of jobs that requires people to work weekends. The sabbath day is not lord over a christian because the sabbath day is not lord over Jesus. That is what it means that Jesus is Lord of the sabbath.

Why do you think Jesus gave several examples in the Bible of how the sabbath day was profaned, but they were guiltless because of the temple and yet He pointed out that someone greater than the temple was here?

So Who resides in us now that our body has become the temple of the Holy Spirit? Jesus Christ is in us and that is why the sabbath day is not lord over us as it is His righteousness that is bringing us Home.

face2face said:

Phoneman - what you are saying is the OT Covenant has nothing to do with Mosiac Law.
I cannot for a minute believe you agree with this...even though pride may say otherwise.
F2F

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I am saying that our inability to replace "the law" with "Old Covenant" in Romans 3:31 KJV should immediately arrest the attention of truth seekers who are willing to scrutinize the cherished idea that "the Old Covenant was the law and therefore the law passed away with the Old Covenant". To the contrary, this failure to replace the one with the other proves that "the law" was not swept away along with the "Old Covenant". Here is why:

A covenant is an agreement between two parties based upon mutual promises. The promises of God to bless and the promises of Israel to obey were not the Old Covenant "whole", but merely the "parts" (blessings and obedience) that made up that "whole".

The crux of the issue is that contrary to popular misconceptions, the disintegration of the "whole" does not demand the disintegrate the "parts" especially in light of the fact that God says He will write His laws on the hearts of New Covenant Christians. Since all agree that it is sin to break the Ten Commandments, we should expect that they are the laws that God writes on the hearts of New Covenant Christians.

whitestone said:

I don't accept such logic. That would be like saying that all the other aspects of the "blessed" Law of Moses were "observed" in the garden of Eden as well and remain in their "shadow form" forever. All shadows and types, of which the Sabbath rest was one, pointed forward to when Jesus fulfilled all the shadows and types, and abolished them, being the ACTUAL ONE of whom these things foretold. Read Hebrews four, you can see that we are in the land of Rest now, unless our faithlessness prevents us from Resting in the Eternal Sabbath Day of Rest in Christ.
We don't participate in the pre-show as though the previews are as important as the show, if I can use a modern parallel. The Sabbath Rest seventh Day observance, was like a movie preview "trailer". It shows us basic high points. It was only a once a week thing then. It pointed forward to the full show to come. Then, when we take in the show finally, (Jesus), we don't ignore what and who Jesus is by going back to the weak "previews" that never show the ending. I hope this helps.

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What? Which "blessed" Law of Moses was blessed in Eden? None. The "blessed" Law of Moses blessings (if there were such any) could only have been bestowed 2,500 years after Eden at Sinai. Only the seventh day was blessed in Eden and the mention of the seventh day Sabbath at Sinai was not setting forth a new institution, like circumcision, Passover, the Feast Day shadows, etc., and all the other facets of the Law of Moses, but was a reiteration of an already blessed day that was blessed in Eden. Therefore, needing only the initial blessing from God (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV), the seventh day Sabbath originated in Eden, not Sinai.

JesusIsFaithful said:

If you are going to use 1 John 2:3-4 as if validating the keeping of the sabbath day, then you better go see which of His commandments that John was actually referring to, brother. John would not speak of His commandments so blandly or in general unless he was going to cite them as to what those actual commandments are; and here it is.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So no keeping of the sabbath day commandment was mentioned here, and no, John was not negligent either.

But I will ask you this: How do you keep the sabbath day holy in these latter days? Do you enjoy services that requires people to work on the sabbath day & that includes the internet?

So if any one was seeking to be justified by the law of keeping the sabbath day holy, they will be judged by it, right?

And yet our righteousness is not of the law, but of faith in Jesus Christ as it is His righteousness that is bringing us Home wherein no flesh shall glory in His Presence.... that means there will be no saint boasting about how he had kept the sabbath day holy.

We are free to worship on the sabbath day or on Sunday or any day. We are free to have a rest day on any day of the week since there are alot of jobs that requires people to work weekends. The sabbath day is not lord over a christian because the sabbath day is not lord over Jesus. That is what it means that Jesus is Lord of the sabbath.

Why do you think Jesus gave several examples in the Bible of how the sabbath day was profaned, but they were guiltless because of the temple and yet He pointed out that someone greater than the temple was here?

So Who resides in us now that our body has become the temple of the Holy Spirit? Jesus Christ is in us and that is why the sabbath day is not lord over us as it is His righteousness that is bringing us Home.

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Here's a gem from the writings of John: "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." This is directly derived from the Second of the Ten Commandments, so we are certain that 1 John 2:3-4 KJV includes the continued prohibition against idolatry and that those who engage in idolatry but profess love for Jesus are liars. Will we argue that the other nine are null and void, especially since the other Bible writers make mention of them in the context that we are obligated to keep them?

Where in the Ten Commandments does it say that I am responsible for what others do on the Sabbath? I refused to work on Sabbath because I chose to follow what the commandment says to me and my family and lost a good job over it, and if others choose to serve money rather than God and provide me internet service on the Sabbath, then that is their problem, not mine.

If Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, then please tell me which ones I am at liberty to break, and I will join you in your sentiments, brother.

Phoneman777 said:

What? Which "blessed" Law of Moses was blessed in Eden? None. The "blessed" Law of Moses blessings (if there were such any) could only have been bestowed 2,500 years after Eden at Sinai. Only the seventh day was blessed in Eden and the mention of the seventh day Sabbath at Sinai was not setting forth a new institution, like circumcision, Passover, the Feast Day shadows, etc., and all the other facets of the Law of Moses, but was a reiteration of an already blessed day that was blessed in Eden. Therefore, needing only the initial blessing from God (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV), the seventh day Sabbath originated in Eden, not Sinai.

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You aren't recognizing that by your same logic, the Lamb Sacrifice at the Gate of Eden was also part of the "Blessed Law" of Moses and is STILL "binding" in it's original SHADOW/TYPE form.
You can't have it both ways. I will no more regress back to keeping just one day holy a week, any more than I would consider butchering a lamb.
I really hope you can grasp this...

Do you have any idea how backwards it would be for me to only be at Rest in Christ ONE day of the week instead of every day?? How could you possibly imagine suggesting that the old shadow type be stretched out over the reality of Rest in Christ? Don't you know that the old wineskin will burst if you attempt to wrap that shadow/type around the Eternal Rest the Lord of Sabboath??

Phoneman777 said:

Here's a gem from the writings of John: "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." This is directly derived from the Second of the Ten Commandments, so we are certain that 1 John 2:3-4 KJV includes the continued prohibition against idolatry and that those who engage in idolatry but profess love for Jesus are liars. Will we argue that the other nine are null and void, especially since the other Bible writers make mention of them in the context that we are obligated to keep them?

Where in the Ten Commandments does it say that I am responsible for what others do on the Sabbath? I refused to work on Sabbath because I chose to follow what the commandment says to me and my family and lost a good job over it, and if others choose to serve money rather than God and provide me internet service on the Sabbath, then that is their problem, not mine.

If Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, then please tell me which ones I am at liberty to break, and I will join you in your sentiments, brother.

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Address why Jesus said what He did if you really believe you are still required to keep the sabbath day to obtain righteousness in order to be saved.

How can you go around tell other people that you are saved and that Jesus Christ is the Saviour if you are still required to do something future each week to obtain that righteousness?

whitestone said:

You aren't recognizing that by your same logic, the Lamb Sacrifice at the Gate of Eden was also part of the "Blessed Law" of Moses and is STILL "binding" in it's original SHADOW/TYPE form.
You can't have it both ways. I will no more regress back to keeping just one day holy a week, any more than I would consider butchering a lamb.
I really hope you can grasp this...

Do you have any idea how backwards it would be for me to only be at Rest in Christ ONE day of the week instead of every day?? How could you possibly imagine suggesting that the old shadow type be stretched out over the reality of Rest in Christ? Don't you know that the old wineskin will burst if you attempt to wrap that shadow/type around the Eternal Rest the Lord of Sabboath??

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The Sabbath was not a shadow of anything because it was created in Eden when all was light, unlike the Law of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, so we can't suppose that the Ten Commandments ended at the Cross as did the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices. But, the Ten Commandments remain to be obeyed for all eternity, not to be saved, but because we love Jesus. If you disagree, then please tell me which of the Ten Commandments I am at liberty to freely break. Don't think of it as a compulsive law, but as a protection for our relationship with God, because relationships are built upon time spent with one another, and a couple minutes of prayer in the morning each day and one hour in church per week is hardly able to preserve any relationship, let alone one with God.

JesusIsFaithful said:

Address why Jesus said what He did if you really believe you are still required to keep the sabbath day to obtain righteousness in order to be saved.

How can you go around tell other people that you are saved and that Jesus Christ is the Saviour if you are still required to do something future each week to obtain that righteousness?

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Please refer me to which post I claimed to believe that keeping the Sabbath obtains for us righteousness and salvation. As far as I know, I've only said what I say to you now: Jesus asked us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy because we love Him (John 14:15 KJV), not to obtain salvation. Luke 17:10 KJV has Jesus Himself claiming that obedience profits us nothing, but 1 John 2:3-4 KJV condemns those who claim to love Jesus but refuse to obey Him. They will be eternally lost because they refused to love Jesus.

Phoneman777 said:

The Sabbath was not a shadow of anything because it was created in Eden when all was light, unlike the Law of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, so we can't suppose that the Ten Commandments ended at the Cross as did the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices. But, the Ten Commandments remain to be obeyed for all eternity, not to be saved, but because we love Jesus. If you disagree, then please tell me which of the Ten Commandments I am at liberty to freely break. Don't think of it as a compulsive law, but as a protection for our relationship with God, because relationships are built upon time spent with one another, and a couple minutes of prayer in the morning each day and one hour in church per week is hardly able to preserve any relationship, let alone one with God.

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Phoneman777 said:

The Sabbath was not a shadow of anything because it was created in Eden when all was light, unlike the Law of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross, so we can't suppose that the Ten Commandments ended at the Cross as did the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices. But, the Ten Commandments remain to be obeyed for all eternity, not to be saved, but because we love Jesus. If you disagree, then please tell me which of the Ten Commandments I am at liberty to freely break. Don't think of it as a compulsive law, but as a protection for our relationship with God, because relationships are built upon time spent with one another, and a couple minutes of prayer in the morning each day and one hour in church per week is hardly able to preserve any relationship, let alone one with God.

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Yes, the Sabbath law was a shadow, just like everything else of the "law". You are wrong. You can't use lame excuses with me, no disrespect intended. Your opinions mean nothing.

Read...

(Heb 10:1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come...

(Exo 24:12) And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

You can slice you can dice, but you can't talk your way around this no matter how many tongues you might speak.

Now, please cogitate on what I posted before please if you would be so kind. Because this simply boils down to whether or not we are truly IN HIS REST, or just KEEPING A POINTLESS SHADOW TYPE NOT RECOGNIZING THE TRUE REST...

It is one or the other. Totally.

Here is my question again please think...

"Do you have any idea how backwards it would be for me to only be at Rest in Christ ONE day of the week instead of every day? How could you possibly imagine suggesting that the old shadow type be stretched out over the reality of Rest in Christ? Don't you know that the old wineskin will burst if you attempt to wrap that shadow/type around the Eternal Rest the Lord of Sabboath?"

Jesus lived the "fulfillment" of the law.

Does some one else here think they can too?

If it was fulfilled, it was fulfilled, and only One did that.

End of story.

THEN... we move on to the New Covenant found in the New Testament... and the New Law written in our hearts not on tables of stone... An Eternal Rest. Not a once a week thing as the old shadow type.

(2Co 11:3) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

(Act 15:24) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Phoneman777 ...do you realize exactly who you are here?

If Yeshua was the fulfillment of the law, rather than being the one person who reached the goal of completely obeying all the law of the Torah, in order to be able to offer himself as a pure and perfect sacrifice as our kinsman redeemer, then you are saying that because Yeshua did everything perfectly no one else needs to even attempt to keep any of the commandments in the Torah, because the Torah was only given to the Jews, and we are not Jews, so it doesn't apply?

You are saying that because we have been granted judicial immunity from the consequences of our sin, we no longer have to even avoid sin. We can sin on purpose, and it matters nothing?

You are saying that Yeshua's rest from his labors become our rest, by the gift of G-d, and we can do whatever we please, whenever we please?

You are saying that it doesn't matter that in disobeying G-d's commandments, which He plans to write on our hearts, those commandments never mattered?

You are saying that all those people...anyone hurt, killed, stolen from, deceived, and betrayed by not keeping the law can never be compensated by any kind of justice, and that G-d never intended that anyone except the Jews should keep any law?


If you believe these things, then you do not follow in the footsteps of the Messiah you say you value.

Yeshua told his disciples, the apostles that you quote so sparingly, that they should teach everyone to do as he did, because making disciples of Yeshua means to become as like to him as possible, doing as he did, every day of his life...in a similar manner as he did as a religious Jew.

The Acts 15 Conference was about what was necessary to be saved, not to live in righteousness, and please G-d. We are given the Holy Spirit, and eventually will have all that Jewish law written into our being, to follow naturally, and as day follows day, eventually, we come to a Seventh day each week, no matter what day you choose to be the Seventh day, on which we are supposed to rest, in our homes, as a holy (separate) convocation (gathering).

No one need do anything in the beginning of a walk with Yeshua to be saved except believe in Yeshua, and that he died, and rose again in our place, as our Kinsman Redeemer.

However, maintaining that belief requires you to come into the company of Yeshua every day, and learn to know him, and to be like him. He kept the Sabbath of the Jews, and though I am a Gentile, I keep that rest day, just as I do not murder anymore, nor steal, nor lie, nor worship anything except G-d, having no idols of any kind. I honored my parents until they died to the best of my poor ability. I don't bear false witness to convict others.

Do you?

Phoneman777 said:

Please refer me to which post I claimed to believe that keeping the Sabbath obtains for us righteousness and salvation.

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Okay, but be ready to see why clarity is needed even within your own last post.

As far as I know, I've only said what I say to you now: Jesus asked us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy because we love Him (John 14:15 KJV), not to obtain salvation.

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Jesus did not asks us to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy in John 14:15, because if those were the commandments He was talking about, then no one would be getting the Holy Ghost because that was the condition for keeping His commandments if you apply John 14:15 like that. That means you were using John 14:15 as inferring that is how we are saved which is by keeping "those" commandments.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So then what commandments was Jesus talking about that comes with the promise of the eternally indwelling Holy Ghost? Let's start at the top.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

That was the first commandment. Then it is repeated severla more times before coming to verse 15.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
So that supports the simplicity of the gospel as those were the "commandments" Jesus was talking about that comes with the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost which is by believing in Him. So you pretty much have to take John 14:15 in context to foind out what commandments Jesus was actually talking about, and He was not talking about keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy at all.

Luke 17:10 KJV has Jesus Himself claiming that obedience profits us nothing, but 1 John 2:3-4 KJV condemns those who claim to love Jesus but refuse to obey Him. They will be eternally lost because they refused to love Jesus.

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Do note your conclusion as being the opposite of what you are saying about not keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy. Those who do not keep the seventh day Sabbath holy are those that do not love Him and therefore they are eternally lost. How is that not saying that believing in Jesus Christ for our salvation is not enough for us to be saved because you have to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy?

To clarify my position with His help, I had referred to 1 John 3:22-24 where verse 23 was John specifically noting the two commandments necessary for "abiding in Him"; not as if both commandments are necessary for salvation. The first is necessary for salvation, but the second one to love others is not a means for salvation but as a means and a testimony of how we are abiding in Him as His disciples.

Here's a gem from the writings of John: "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." This is directly derived from the Second of the Ten Commandments, so we are certain that 1 John 2:3-4 KJV includes the continued prohibition against idolatry and that those who engage in idolatry but profess love for Jesus are liars. Will we argue that the other nine are null and void, especially since the other Bible writers make mention of them in the context that we are obligated to keep them?

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And yet there is no little gem of plainly teaching the church in any epistle to even remind believers to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy since Gentiles would need that instructions since they do not practise that. Nowhere.. not once... did Paul or any of the disciples plainly warned Gentile believers of the necessity to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy.

And automatically imputing that commandment into any reference of that being of His commandments is hardly convincing for the amount of emphasis you claim is God's will on the matter for christians to follow.

Where in the Ten Commandments does it say that I am responsible for what others do on the Sabbath? I refused to work on Sabbath because I chose to follow what the commandment says to me and my family and lost a good job over it, and if others choose to serve money rather than God and provide me internet service on the Sabbath, then that is their problem, not mine.

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Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

You are not to benefit off of other people working on the sabbath day & so as far as I am concern, you have not been really keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy at all when you buy things that you should have done the day before or cook things that should have been prepared the day before ( without reheating it on the sabbath day ).

You access the internet in your house & under your roof.

Joshua 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve;....but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

I believe you are saved, but I also believe that by the standard you judge others by, you will be found wanting by the standard you had been claiming to keep, but have not, brother. This does not mean you did not love Him, but this does mean you need to reassess how you are emphasizing the keeping of the seventh day Sabbath holy per the Old Covenant when we are not under that covenant at all.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. ....8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

So how is Jesus able to make a non-sabbath day keeper stand? Because He is Lord of the Sabbath.

You want Jesus's stand on the issue of the sabbath day? Here it is.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Now after Jesus gave two examples of how those that had broken the sabbath day were guiltless because of the temple, He refer to one greater then the temple in the place where He was speaking to in verse 6-8 as to why Jesus is able to make a non-sabbath day keeper stand as Paul had testified in Romans 14:4. May God increase you in the knowledge of Him of how His righteousness is bringing you Home.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There are commandments for abiding in Him as His disciples so that we may run that race for the high prize of our calling to be received as that vessel unto honour in His House in attending the Marriage Supper held in His honour, but we do so by trusting in Him as our Good Shepherd which is why the crowns we shall receive shall be cast at His feet because they are His crowning achievements in us.

Keeping the sabbath day holy is not one of His commandments for us to keep, but we are free to regard the day in honouring Him just as we are free not to because we know it is His righteousness that is bringing us Home.

Keeping the Sabbath, which always fell on a Saturday until 321 AD, when the Catholic Church decreed keeping Sabbath on Sunday instead, since it would conveniently fall on the same day as all those Sun worshipers that gathered at the temples of Apollo, is not the be all and end all of G-d's desires for those He has called to become His children, but it is something that He does desire from those who love him...not to tally up points in how well you obey the commandments, nor to be like the rest of the world, but to honor Him, and His wishes.

If you wish to do honor to G-d, to YHVH, you will read the Bible, and see what it says as a whole, not what is taught in one liners in any church, and not by doing what sounds nice.

And if you truly love Yeshua haMashiach, you will heed his words.




Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Iniquity means lawlessness.


Matthew 7:22-23 (YLT)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
23 and then I will acknowledge to them, that--I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.



Matthew 7:21-27 (CJB)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those who do what my Father in heaven wants.
22 On that Day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord! Didn’t we prophesy in your name? Didn’t we expel demons in your name? Didn’t we perform many miracles in your name?’
23 Then I will tell them to their faces, ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
24 “So, everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on bedrock.
25 The rain fell, the rivers flooded, the winds blew and beat against that house, but it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like a stupid man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain fell, the rivers flooded, the wind blew and beat against that house, and it collapsed — and its collapse was horrendous!”




I have done my duty. I have warned you to listen to Yeshua, and not to your preachers, not to the siren song of the Adversary who says you need not DO anything, only Believe.

Belief only shows in your actions, not in the desires of your mind, so what you actually do matters. I did not say this, Yeshua said it with every step that he took. Become more like Him each day, and do as he did, and you will be his disciple, and not Satan's.

You are saying that because we have been granted judicial immunity from the consequences of our sin, we no longer have to even avoid sin. We can sin on purpose, and it matters nothing?

You are saying that Yeshua's rest from his labors become our rest, by the gift of G-d, and we can do whatever we please, whenever we please?

You are saying that it doesn't matter that in disobeying G-d's commandments, which He plans to write on our hearts, those commandments never mattered?

You are saying that all those people...anyone hurt, killed, stolen from, deceived, and betrayed by not keeping the law can never be compensated by any kind of justice, and that G-d never intended that anyone except the Jews should keep any law?

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Only one who does not walk in LOVE would think such a thing. Its this crazy idea that those who walk in Love would some how willingly go and break the law. How foolish is the wisdom of man.

Luk_7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

One does not need the LAW to love ony teh LAWLESS need the law. If one says they are walking in love and hates his brother than the Love of God is not in him and he is a liar. Those who choose to keep teh law do so because they are lawless and are not walking in love, that is why teh LAW is for the sinners not for the righteous who are in Christ.

Choose the law and you are dead for Christ will not die for you again when you break it, and you will. There is no grace for them who hold onto the law.

In all His Love

Where the Road Ends

The conscience, our own anxiety, and all slaves of the law bid us go the way of obedience to the very end in order to find peace with God. But the way of obedience has no end. It lies endlessly before you, bringing continually severer demands and constantly growing indebtedness. If you seek peace on that road, you will not find peace, but the debt of ten thousands talents instead.

But now Christ is the end of the law;
the road ends at His feet, and here
His righteousness is offered
to everyone who believes.

It is to that place, to Jesus only, that God has wanted to drive you with all your unrest and anguish of soul.

Bo Giertz
The Hammer of God

whitestone said:

You aren't recognizing that by your same logic, the Lamb Sacrifice at the Gate of Eden was also part of the "Blessed Law" of Moses and is STILL "binding" in it's original SHADOW/TYPE form.
You can't have it both ways. I will no more regress back to keeping just one day holy a week, any more than I would consider butchering a lamb.
I really hope you can grasp this...

Do you have any idea how backwards it would be for me to only be at Rest in Christ ONE day of the week instead of every day?? How could you possibly imagine suggesting that the old shadow type be stretched out over the reality of Rest in Christ? Don't you know that the old wineskin will burst if you attempt to wrap that shadow/type around the Eternal Rest the Lord of Sabboath??

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Brother, I have to address two points:
1) Where do you get the idea that God blessed the Mosaic Law? To the contrary, the Mosaic Law is referred to as "against us" and "bondage", not a "blessing". Therefore, since no where do we read that God "blessed the Mosaic Law", you cannot use this as a basis for arguing against the continuance of the Sabbath commandment.

2) I am not insisting that the fact that seventh day was blessed in Eden is the reason why the seventh day Sabbath remains to be observed today - God reserves the right to commence and retire any institution at any time for any reason. What I am arguing is that the Sabbath was not a shadow of anything - it was created in Eden when all was light. Why? The mention of the seventh day Sabbath blessing at Sinai could not be the establishment of something new because the day was already blessed in Eden and remained blessed thereafter without need of any blessing upon it (1 Chronicles 17:27 KJV). Therefore, the seventh day and the seventh day Sabbath at Sinai could only been blessed at the same time in Eden, proving the Edenic existence of the Sabbath when there was no shadow of sin. The "shadow" argument for setting aside the Sabbath does not apply to the weekly Sabbath, but only to the annual "feast days" sabbaths.