Some people say, I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, and others say, I believe in the mid-tribulation rapture. Who is right??. they are both right.[1] Because Jesus is coming back for those who are looking for Him.Heb 9: 28, 1 Cor 16: 22-23,But some wont be ready, Matt 25; 1--13. Rev 3: 14--16[2] Because we will be in heaven at the marrige supper Revelation 19:1--10. Matthew 25: 1--13.How can we be in heaven and on earth at the same time.[3] Because The Saints will be coming with Jesus.Revelation 17: 14 Revelation 19: 14, Zechariah 14: 5.How can we come with Jesus if we are already here.[4] Because of The pre- tribulation rapture.2 Thess 2: 3, The word "Falling away". means, A withdawing, a drawing away, a catching away". The rapture.The Greek meaning for "falling away, is, [I will quote from the Greek]"The word is apostasia, falling away,although it doesn't exactly mean that in this context, the verb comes from [Aphistemi]Made up of "Apo" Away, and "Histemi" Place".Please note, 2 Thessalonians 2: 3, Does not say, Falling away from the faith. So it reads like this.that day will not come exept there is a "placing away" or a taking away. Now look at v 7--8. The Greek word for "Withholding v6 and Letteth, v7," Is the same. and means, Holding backSo it reads like this. v 6 And you know what is holding him back from being revealed.v 7 For the mystery of wickedness and lawlessnes is already working, only he [The Church] who now holds him back, will hold him back, until he [the Church] is taken out of the way [Pre-trib rapture].v 8 Then shall the wicked one be revealed.Then and then only will that man of sin,the son of perdition be reveald. Now look at v 7--8, The Church is holding him back, once the Church is taken, the wicked one can be revealed.In v 9--10, talks about the power of satan, If you think that the Church will still be here, then you are saying it has no power.[5] Because the Church will be like Jesus when He comes to take us2 Thess 2: 14, says, "We have obtained the glory of Jesus" The word "Glory" means, The character and power.now Ephessians 5: 26-27, "Jesus is coming back for a glorious Church"A Church that is just like Jesus, doing outstanding miracles, and mighty works of power.now 1 John 3: 2, says, "When Jesus comes, we shall be like Him".If we are going to be like Jesus, [and we are].What chance has the devil got against us. "Greater is He that is in us"If the devil couldn't handle one Jesus, how is he going to deal with thousands and thousands of Jesus's. Jesus has given the Church power over the devil, he is no match for us, [In Christ]The antichrist cannot come until the Church has gone.You can stay if you want to, and let the devil defeat you.
Why Christians wont go through the tribulation
- Thread starter Alanforchrist
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Jon-Marc
New Member
My daily cry is "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Why was this put in God's word if we don't have the hope of His return BEFORE the tribulation?
QUOTE (Jon-Marc;34976)
My daily cry is "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Why was this put in God's word if we don't have the hope of His return BEFORE the tribulation?
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
My daily cry is "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Why was this put in God's word if we don't have the hope of His return BEFORE the tribulation?
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
forgivenWretch
New Member
There is a 2nd. coming that comes after the man of peridition.2 thess 2:3 that is in the trib time of trouble. However some saints will be killed and others protected. who cares as long as He comes. Very few saints in the bible got away with death with out lots of persecution. The pre rapture is not scriptual. It is a made up theory. Try to give a scripture that says the seconed coming is pre rapture.2 thess 2:3
(thesuperjag;34987)
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
The church has already gone before the tribulation . For four reasons.[1] Matt 24:27--28, is the rapture, before the tribulationread Luke 17: 24--37. [The most Authentic manuelscrips say this is the pre-tribulation rapture][2] Because the trumpet in 1 Cor 15: 51--52, and 1 Thessalonians 4: 16--17, is for the pre-trib rapture, and is different to the great sound of a tumpet in Matt 24: 31. and the seven in Revelations, from ch 8-6 to 11: 15,[3] The pre-trib rapture is the church meeting Jesus in the air.It is not the second comming.The marriage supper is in heaven. commpare Matt 25: 1--10 with rev 19: 1--9. This is before Jesus comes.[4] The pre-trib saints will come with Jesus.Rev 19:14, Rev 17: 14, Zechariah 14: 5.
Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
The church has already gone before the tribulation . For four reasons.[1] Matt 24:27--28, is the rapture, before the tribulationread Luke 17: 24--37. [The most Authentic manuelscrips say this is the pre-tribulation rapture][2] Because the trumpet in 1 Cor 15: 51--52, and 1 Thessalonians 4: 16--17, is for the pre-trib rapture, and is different to the great sound of a tumpet in Matt 24: 31. and the seven in Revelations, from ch 8-6 to 11: 15,[3] The pre-trib rapture is the church meeting Jesus in the air.It is not the second comming.The marriage supper is in heaven. commpare Matt 25: 1--10 with rev 19: 1--9. This is before Jesus comes.[4] The pre-trib saints will come with Jesus.Rev 19:14, Rev 17: 14, Zechariah 14: 5.
The 2nd coming is in the air. The rapture is really the 2nd coming in 2 Thess2:3, only after trib. You guys cant deny 2nd thess 2:3. Alen your adding to scripture. The 2nd coming is clear the rapture is a theory that insist there are two 2nd coming of Jesus and that is not scriptual.
You want to know when there is a so called rapture if you follow God instead of men he tells you 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. THE LAST Trump that is th 7th after the tribulation no one is going anywhere as crooner says after the son of Perdition who is Satan who comes at the 5th/6th trump and not a minute before and I would challenge anyone to show any scripture that says hes coming before that. and do not bother to quote 1 Thess it only says he will come if you want to know when you have to read 2thess. and it tells after the Son of Perdition
The bible is very clear on this subject ,what confuses me is all the confusion.For most pretribbers they set their hearts on the fact the we are not appointed to wrath but they are confused about what wrath or who's wrath we are not appointed to.The wrath is the destruction of the earth by fire at the post trib 2nd coming (reff 2nd thess 1:6-10 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)and we are rapture b4 the fire falls as Jesus is returning.For midtribbers they have even more problems because they believe that the anti christ reigns during the first half of the tribulation and then God pours his wrath out during the second half which in itself is a complete mis understanding of scripture the great tribulation the last 3.5 years does not start until the anti christs declares himself God and starts his reign th last 42 months(reff matt 24:15-21and rev 13:5)and it end with the return of Jesus at the battle of armageddon which not only ends the reign of the anti christ but the tribulation aswell and ushers in the millinneum (reff rev 19:11-21and rev 20:4-6).The attempts by some to force a pre or midtrib view seems not only flawed but deliberately deceptive seeing clearity of scripture on the subject.The day of the Lord is not a time but a day it is the day he returns to deliever the just and destroy the wicked(reff malachi4:1-3,luke 17:26-30,2nd thess 1:6-10,2nd thess 2:1-3 and 2nd pet 3:10-12)it is the day of the 2nd coming.For all of you who for some reason think that the fact that he returns as a thief proves pre the bible cleary says in 1st thess 5:2-4 that when he comes as a thief it is to destroy the wicked not to take the church and it also says the we as christians will not be overcome.And for those who believe that the fact that we do not know the day or hour proves pre,Jesus was not speaking of the rapture when he said that he was speaking of the 2nd coming itself when read in context starting at matt 24:22and reading through 36 this is abumdently clear and yet for some reason ignored.We all agree that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation so the fact that we do not know the day or hour of the 2nd coming does not keep it from being post trib and the fact that Jesus was reffering to the 2nd coming not the rapture when he made that statement disqualifies your point rendering it mute .Beside Jesus goes on to say that the 2nd coming would be as the days of noah the same day noah went on the arc is the same day God destroyed the earth so shall it be when the son of man returns(reff matt 24:37-40)Then shall two be in the field and one taken not 7yrs b4 the 2nd coming but at the 2nd coming which no man knows the day or hour of but we do know it is immediately after the tribulation because Jesus said it was (reff matt 24:29-31
(crooner;35043)
The 2nd coming is in the air. The rapture is really the 2nd coming in 2 Thess2:3, only after trib. You guys cant deny 2nd thess 2:3. Alen your adding to scripture. The 2nd coming is clear the rapture is a theory that insist there are two 2nd coming of Jesus and that is not scriptual.
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.
The 2nd coming is in the air. The rapture is really the 2nd coming in 2 Thess2:3, only after trib. You guys cant deny 2nd thess 2:3. Alen your adding to scripture. The 2nd coming is clear the rapture is a theory that insist there are two 2nd coming of Jesus and that is not scriptual.
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.
(Alanforchrist;35115)
(crooner;35043)
The 2nd coming is in the air. The rapture is really the 2nd coming in 2 Thess2:3, only after trib. You guys cant deny 2nd thess 2:3.Alen your adding to scripture. The 2nd coming is clear the rapture is a theory that insist there are two 2nd coming of Jesus and that is not scriptual.
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.Matthew 15:9 - But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.Mark 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.II Corinthians 11:4 - For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
(crooner;35043)
The 2nd coming is in the air. The rapture is really the 2nd coming in 2 Thess2:3, only after trib. You guys cant deny 2nd thess 2:3.Alen your adding to scripture. The 2nd coming is clear the rapture is a theory that insist there are two 2nd coming of Jesus and that is not scriptual.
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.Matthew 15:9 - But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.Mark 7:7 - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.II Corinthians 11:4 - For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Alan where does it say the man of peridition cant operate until we leave?Alan this is a great fairy tale but you know you really have to go way out there to make your case. I dont believe God intended to make it that complicated. I have read almost every book on secret rapture and even they vary among themselfs. I only feel secure with 2nd coming it is much more solid. I have bbe listening to these debates and 2nd coming makes most sence.Jesus is coming either way so we need to be ready dailey. Good luck in your debate.It is fun learning Gods word.
(crooner;35127)
Alan where does it say the man of peridition cant operate until we leave?Alan this is a great fairy tale but you know you really have to go way out there to make your case. I dont believe God intended to make it that complicated. I have read almost every book on secret rapture and even they vary among themselfs. I only feel secure with 2nd coming it is much more solid. I have bbe listening to these debates and 2nd coming makes most sence.Jesus is coming either way so we need to be ready dailey. Good luck in your debate.It is fun learning Gods word.
God does not make His Word complicated. God Words are so straight forward. The only problem is, He told us everything, .. it is how we interpret it... to believe in His Truth or not...JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Alan where does it say the man of peridition cant operate until we leave?Alan this is a great fairy tale but you know you really have to go way out there to make your case. I dont believe God intended to make it that complicated. I have read almost every book on secret rapture and even they vary among themselfs. I only feel secure with 2nd coming it is much more solid. I have bbe listening to these debates and 2nd coming makes most sence.Jesus is coming either way so we need to be ready dailey. Good luck in your debate.It is fun learning Gods word.
God does not make His Word complicated. God Words are so straight forward. The only problem is, He told us everything, .. it is how we interpret it... to believe in His Truth or not...JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Jagyou are correct. I personally think the pre rapt theory is driven out of fear. And fear freezes some people to see clearly. God always in the past took care of his people, gave them mamon, clothing,even kept them from sunburn etc. He will not let us down as a whole. But there will be some persecution that some christians will go thru. Probably Christian leaders in the word.
(Alanforchrist;35115)
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.
Alan please show scripture where you believe there is a first rapture there is no such scripture to my knowledge there is one second coming at the 7th trump there is no scripture I am aware of that says that if you read Thess 2:3 it says their will be NO gathering until AFTER the son of perdition Son of Perdition is one of the names for Satan he is being held physically by Michael The church is not holding back anything it is God who has shortened the timefor the Elect sake until his appointed time the church is in a famine of the true word of God Amos 8:11 it couldnt hold back a invasion of ants with all its rapture teaching and other false doctrines. Those of us that study his word and try to walk the christain life are few in number compared to all who listen to false doctrines.If you read Eze. 13:20 with understanding God says he does not like a doctrine that teaches souls they are going to fly away from here this is the rapture doctrine God doesnt approve there is one coming and we will all go through the tribulation.The tribulation is to seperate the wheat from the chaff (the tares)
2 Thess 2: 3 is the 1st rapture, but note it is before the man of sin is revealed, he connot operate until the church has gone, look at v7--8, We are holding him back, when we go the man of sin, the son of perdition will come with the tribulation.I have given you scripture to prove the truth, You are quoting from 1st imaginations.
Alan please show scripture where you believe there is a first rapture there is no such scripture to my knowledge there is one second coming at the 7th trump there is no scripture I am aware of that says that if you read Thess 2:3 it says their will be NO gathering until AFTER the son of perdition Son of Perdition is one of the names for Satan he is being held physically by Michael The church is not holding back anything it is God who has shortened the timefor the Elect sake until his appointed time the church is in a famine of the true word of God Amos 8:11 it couldnt hold back a invasion of ants with all its rapture teaching and other false doctrines. Those of us that study his word and try to walk the christain life are few in number compared to all who listen to false doctrines.If you read Eze. 13:20 with understanding God says he does not like a doctrine that teaches souls they are going to fly away from here this is the rapture doctrine God doesnt approve there is one coming and we will all go through the tribulation.The tribulation is to seperate the wheat from the chaff (the tares)
Good luck Allen,I'm a Pre-Trib guy my self and I look forward to Jesus return any day now!But the leadership on this site is very bent on attacking what we believe very strongly and I've learn that they will come up with all kinds of things out of context of Scriptures to make their point and their point alone valid.If it doesn't fit then they just say that is just sybolism.Good luck.I've personally stopped trying to argue with these guys on this point!Bro.Jody
I dont mean to be attacking Jody its just the fact that God never teaches it only menIts not in the Bible your doing as God warned us against and following false doctrinesof men but it was never taught is not in scripture.I guestion why you would listen to men over God I frankly think it shows a bigger lack of faith to not trust God to take care of you and insteadfollow madeup doctrines of men when God tells you straight up that there is a faminefor the true Word at this time. And he tells you he doesnt like Fly away false doctrine You still choose to follow it thats what I question what I dont understandIs The fact you think you are going to receive some kind of reward by not following him before men.
No, I don't believe that I'll recieve some kind of reward, other than a white robe and a crown that I get to lay at Jesus feet.I do trust that God will take care of me! I do not believe the rapture theory because I'm afraid of Tribulation. That is far from the truth. I love to be persecuted for my faith. As a matter of fact if you really knew me you would never believe that about me.No, I welcome persecution. If it was'nt for my wife holding me back I would probably be a missionary in the hardest persecuted countries of the world boldly willing to die for my faith in Jesus!I still can't get around the scripture that tells me that He will catch me away into the clouds!You are anyone on this forum has not successfully given me any proof other wise!
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