JESUS, the Holy Spirit, the Only True God.

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
first thanks for the response, second, it matter not what I think, but it matters what the SCRIPTURES states. listen,
John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”.

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”.

now, dave and SovereignGrace study both of those two scriptures and tell us who sent the Holy Spirit.

now after that, I want you both to read this, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

OK, who came to them?. ......

PICJAG

It is not about who sent them. It's about you saying God has a split personality ("diversified oneness") and that he fragments into one of them. Can't you see how wrong this is?

Furthermore, you argue from a classic modalist viewpoint when necessary and move into your own split personality theory whenever able. So you are hard to tack down unless your opponents realize this.

101G · Feb 15, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
I believe God is my Father, Jesus is His son, and the Holy Spirit is his manifested power.

ok, thanks for the reply. you said Jesus is God son, how are you using this term "son"? biologically or spiritually?.

PICJAG.

SovereignGrace · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
but who sent who? that is the QUESTION

and two, who dwells in us, a. the Spirit, b. the Son, or c. the Father?

ps now you're correct he dwells in us who holds all the titles, but it's only one PERSON who dwells in us.

so now back to my first question who sent the comforter? well..... thanks in advance fro your coming answer.

PICJAG.

10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.[John 14]

The Christ is showing the intimacy of Himself and the Father. They are One in unity, essence, will, &c. It’s just like we are in the Christ and the Christ is in us. Yet, I am not the Christ, neither is the Christ me. I am stating this to prove my point.

12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

Surely the Christ is not some pschizo here. He said He was going to Who? Himself? No, His Father.

13 Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Here again, He is making a clear distinction betwixt Himself and His Father. He always gave the glory, honor and praise to His Father. He is saying that whatever we ask in His name, the Father is glorified via the Son. Again, another clear distinction betwixt the Two persons.

16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Here we see the third Person, God the Spirit. He went to the Father, the Father sent the Spirit.

20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Here the Christ said they will be in Him and He in them, yet they are not the same person, are they? Clear distinction is made yet again.

21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

Again, another distinction is made here.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”

Again, the Father will send the Spirit in the Christ’s name.

28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

The Christ said He was going to the Father, not Himself. He’s not some pschizo...

101G · Feb 15, 2019

Dave L said:
It is not about who sent them. It's about you saying God has a split personality ("diversified oneness") and fragments into one of them. Can't you see how wrong this is?

Furthermore, you argue from a classic modalist viewpoint when necessary and move into your own split personality theory whenever able. So you are hard to tack down unless your opponents realize this.

you said, "It is not about who sent them", Oh yes it is. that's your deception, and ignorance of the scriptures. it destroyes your modalist viewpoint God completely. you cannot accept the TRUTH. I think you need to Go back to your Post #4 and #590.. I believe and reconcicle..... "THEM"... lol.

PICJAG.

SovereignGrace · Feb 15, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
Thanks for the visual....as I have said I believe in the Trinity as it was taught and as I understand scripture to mean....I also think it a fruitless argument when debating whether He is one being or 3....it has no bearing on how I worship God or how I pray or how I study scripture.....I rely quite heavily on the Holy Spirit to teach me and guide me into all truth so gotta have Him for sure....can't be saved without my Lord and Saviour Jesus so definitely gotta keep Him.....and who has loved me unconditionally and desires nothing but the best for me but my Father who I pray to and who sees to it that all my needs are met.

I disagree. The doctrine of the Trinity is soteriological at its core. You assault the Trinity, you assault how God saves ppl from their sins.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a first priority teaching that needs to be taught with all diligence.

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
you said, "It is not about who sent them", Oh yes it is. that's your deception, and ignorance of the scriptures. it destroyes your modalist viewpoint God completely. you cannot accept the TRUTH. I think you need to Go back to your Post #4 and #590.. I believe and reconcicle..... "THEM"... lol.

PICJAG.

You depict God as one person, having a split personality that thinks he is the Son at times. And the Holy Spirit at other times. Not too different from Norman Bates in the Hitchcock thriller Psycho.

SovereignGrace · Feb 15, 2019

Dave L said:
You depict God as one person, having a split personality that thinks he is the Son at times. And the Holy Spirit at other times. Not too different from Norman Bates in the Hitchcock thriller Psycho.

He’s accusing you of Modalism and he’s the one averring it.

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
He’s accusing you of Modalism and he’s the one averring it.

Slippery indeed. Hard to pin down unless you understand he's coming from a classic modalist view point when necessary. But then diverting to his preferred "split personality" presentation of God when able.

101G · Feb 15, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.[John 14]

The Christ is showing the intimacy of Himself and the Father. They are One in unity, essence, will, &c. It’s just like we are in the Christ and the Christ is in us. Yet, I am not the Christ, neither is the Christ me. I am stating this to prove my point.

12 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

Surely the Christ is not some pschizo here. He said He was going to Who? Himself? No, His Father.

13 Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Here again, He is making a clear distinction betwixt Himself and His Father. He always gave the glory, honor and praise to His Father. He is saying that whatever we ask in His name, the Father is glorified via the Son. Again, another clear distinction betwixt the Two persons.

16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Here we see the third Person, God the Spirit. He went to the Father, the Father sent the Spirit.

20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Here the Christ said they will be in Him and He in them, yet they are not the same person, are they? Clear distinction is made yet again.

21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

Again, another distinction is made here.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”

Again, the Father will send the Spirit in the Christ’s name.

28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

The Christ said He was going to the Father, not Himself. He’s not some pschizo...

"The Christ is showing the intimacy of Himself and the Father". lol, lol, lol that has nothing to do with who sent who. both of you are stuck in the Igorance of the Scriptures.

now SovereignGrace, without arguing WHO sent the comforter, plain and simple. you said, the "FATHER", at least you did answer. ok, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”.

now, who was it that sent the Comforter here in this scripture, the Son, JESUS, correct. now if the Son sent the comforter, and the Father sent the Comforter, then that's only ONE PERSON who SENT the Comforter, for "I" is a single desigination. so your belifs are in ERROR. see the scriptures don't LIE. men do. understand "Father" and "Son" are only TITLES of the ONE TRUE GOD.

now let's take this a step futher. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

now dave and SovereignGrace, who came? examine verse 18 closley...

PICJAG.

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
"The Christ is showing the intimacy of Himself and the Father". lol, lol, lol that has nothing to do with who sent who. both of you are stuck in the Igorance of the Scriptures.

now SovereignGrace, without arguing WHO sent the comforter, plain and simple. you said, the "FATHER", at least you did answer. ok, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”.

now, who was it that sent the Comforter here in this scripture, the Son, JESUS, correct. now if the Son sent the comforter, and the Father sent the Comforter, then that's only ONE PERSON who SENT the Comforter, for "I" is a single desigination. so your belifs are in ERROR. see the scriptures don't LIE. men do. understand "Father" and "Son" are only TITLES of the ONE TRUE GOD.

now let's take this a step futher. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

now dave and SovereignGrace, who came? examine verse 18 closley...

PICJAG.

You base your understanding of these passages on a false concept of God. One person only. And the truth is, God is three persons. So "I" is whoever of the three persons is speaking.

101G · Feb 15, 2019

Dave L said:
You base your understanding of these passages on a false concept of God. One person only. And the truth is, God is three persons. So "I" is whoever of the three persons is speaking.

who truth yours or the scriptures. so dave who sent the comforter?...... (smile). scripture please.

PICJAG

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
who truth your or the scriptures. so dave who sent the comforter?...... (smile). scripture please.

PICJAG

If God is only one person as you say, it is that person speaking. But this ignores scripture that shows God as three persons. So the context determines which of the three persons is speaking.

Mjh29 · Feb 15, 2019

Dave L said:
If God is only one person as you say, it is that person speaking. But this ignores scripture that shows God as three persons. So the context determines which of the three persons is speaking.

I totally agree. Modalism begs the question; who was Jesus praying to in the Garden when he asked the Father to "take this cup from me?"

101G · Feb 15, 2019

Mjh29 said:
I totally agree. Modalism begs the question; who was Jesus praying to in the Garden when he asked the Father to "take this cup from me?"

this is where you fellas are in ignorance at. let us ask you both a question, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". is this ONE PERSON or two or THREE? ..... (smile).

PICJAG

Heart2Soul · Feb 15, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
I disagree. The doctrine of the Trinity is soteriological at its core. You assault the Trinity, you assault how God saves ppl from their sins.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a first priority teaching that needs to be taught with all diligence.

Quite the contrary....I believe in the trinity....I have a difficult time with seeing it any other way...but I also understand that as we are created in His image I find it possible to see how people come up with a Triune or Oneness doctrine.....The field of medicine treats patients as 3 separate entities....the body, the mind, and the spirit. The body and the spirit can be separated apart from each other....the mind is the unique "computer or brain" that can affect and control both body and spirit thereby determining their function and outcome of each. The Bible addresses these 3 as well, we are instructed to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, to put on the mind of Christ, to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded......it addresses our spirit and flesh in unity.....walk after the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of your flesh, the flesh wars against the spirit, we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places, God is a spirit and they who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, we a born again of His spirit....etc....

My argument is how does God address this in His Word? He doesn't....the Bible doesn't mention Trinity, Triune, or Oneness.....I am a keep it simple kind of person....I just follow His instructions and do what it tells me to do so I can't be wrong.

I have a very close relationship with my Father and I talk with Him daily......I am humble and eternally grateful that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and has paid the price for my sins and given me eternal life.....I am extremely thankful for the Holy Spirit who has taught me my whole life and who has manifested His power in me and through me in times past and present. He also intercedes in prayer for me when I do not know what to pray He prays for me.....

I am confident of my faith in what I believe because it is by the revelation knowledge of the Holy Spirit that my eyes and heart have been opened to understand what His Word says to me.

You are a good person just a little to quick to judge or accuse without giving someone the opportunity to express what they believe and why.

Dave L · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
this is where you fellas are in ignorance at. let us ask you both a question, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". is this ONE PERSON or two or THREE? ..... (smile).

PICJAG

You think you have something here but let's ask this. Which personality did God fragment into here according to your theory? The Father? The Son? or the Holy Spirit? When he said this?

Mjh29 · Feb 15, 2019

101G said:
this is where you fellas are in ignorance at. let us ask you both a question, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". is this ONE PERSON or two or THREE? ..... (smile).

PICJAG

So, you aren't going to answer the question? Or you can only answer with a question because you don't know? 3 persons, one God, equal in power and glory. 3 persons. God is the LORD, as it the Spirit and the Son, all existing co-equally since the foundation of the earth, and so intimately connected that you could not have any one without the other, but so uniquely personal that each is His own person without being a different God.

1. Matthew 3:16
“After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him.”

2. Matthew 12:28
“But if I [Jesus] cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

3. Matthew 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”

4. Luke 3:22
“And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

5. John 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My [Jesus’] name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”

6. John 15:26
“When the Helper comes, whom I [Jesus] will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me . . .”

7. Acts 1:4
“Gathering them together, He [Jesus] commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me . . .”

8. Acts 2:33
“Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Jesus] has poured forth this which you both see and hear.”

9. Acts 10:38
“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”

10. Romans 1:4
“Who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord . . .”

11. Romans 8:9
“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”

12. 1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

13. 2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

14. Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

15. Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

16. Ephesians 2:18
For through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

17. Ephesians 2:22
In whom [Jesus] you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

18. Titus 3:6
Whom [the Holy Spirit] He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.

19. Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

20. 1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: may grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Now your turn. Who was Jesus talking to in the Garden when He asked the Father to "take this cup from me?"

farouk · Feb 15, 2019

Heart2Soul said:
Quite the contrary....I believe in the trinity....I have a difficult time with seeing it any other way...but I also understand that as we are created in His image I find it possible to see how people come up with a Triune or Oneness doctrine.....The field of medicine treats patients as 3 separate entities....the body, the mind, and the spirit. The body and the spirit can be separated apart from each other....the mind is the unique "computer or brain" that can affect and control both body and spirit thereby determining their function and outcome of each. The Bible addresses these 3 as well, we are instructed to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, to put on the mind of Christ, to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded......it addresses our spirit and flesh in unity.....walk after the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of your flesh, the flesh wars against the spirit, we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places, God is a spirit and they who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, we a born again of His spirit....etc....

My argument is how does God address this in His Word? He doesn't....the Bible doesn't mention Trinity, Triune, or Oneness.....I am a keep it simple kind of person....I just follow His instructions and do what it tells me to do so I can't be wrong.

I have a very close relationship with my Father and I talk with Him daily......I am humble and eternally grateful that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and has paid the price for my sins and given me eternal life.....I am extremely thankful for the Holy Spirit who has taught me my whole life and who has manifested His power in me and through me in times past and present. He also intercedes in prayer for me when I do not know what to pray He prays for me.....

I am confident of my faith in what I believe because it is by the revelation knowledge of the Holy Spirit that my eyes and heart have been opened to understand what His Word says to me.

You are a good person just a little to quick to judge or accuse without giving someone the opportunity to express what they believe and why.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned very frequently and deeply in the New Testament: Matthew 28; John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 - 17; John's First Epistle, etc.

101G · Feb 15, 2019

Mjh29 said:
So, you aren't going to answer the question? Or you can only answer with a question because you don't know? 3 persons, one God, equal in power and glory. 3 persons. God is the LORD, as it the Spirit and the Son, all existing co-equally since the foundation of the earth, and so intimately connected that you could not have any one without the other, but so uniquely personal that each is His own person without being a different God.

1. Matthew 3:16
“After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him.”

2. Matthew 12:28
“But if I [Jesus] cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

3. Matthew 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”

4. Luke 3:22
“And the Holy Spirit descended upon Him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My [the Father’s] beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

5. John 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My [Jesus’] name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”

6. John 15:26
“When the Helper comes, whom I [Jesus] will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me . . .”

7. Acts 1:4
“Gathering them together, He [Jesus] commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me . . .”

8. Acts 2:33
“Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Jesus] has poured forth this which you both see and hear.”

9. Acts 10:38
“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”

10. Romans 1:4
“Who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord . . .”

11. Romans 8:9
“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”

12. 1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

13. 2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

14. Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

15. Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

16. Ephesians 2:18
For through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

17. Ephesians 2:22
In whom [Jesus] you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

18. Titus 3:6
Whom [the Holy Spirit] He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.

19. Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

20. 1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: may grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Now your turn. Who was Jesus talking to in the Garden when He asked the Father to "take this cup from me?"

so we can take this as you don't know.

see it's ONE person

Just as Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".

see he's the ROOT/Spirit, the Father and the OFFSPRING/Spirit, the Son. and Offspring is the DIVERSITY of God in flesh... lol. you have no clue. you both are still in darkness.

PS Offspring is the "diversity". .... lol.

PICJAC

Heart2Soul · Feb 15, 2019

farouk said:
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned very frequently and deeply in the New Testament: Matthew 28; John's Gospel, especially chapters 13 - 17; John's First Epistle, etc.

Yes, I know this....my POINT is that the word TRINITY, TRIUNE, and ONENESS are not in the Bible....
Each one of these believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit....there is just a division as to whether they are separate or the same person operating in 3 different roles.

JESUS, the Holy Spirit, the Only True God.

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