Calvinism

CharismaticLady · Oct 10, 2019

Willie T said:
Your only real problem seems to be your choice of words.

What would you say? I'm meaning repenting and turning away from the willful sin.

Willie T · Oct 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
What would you say? I'm meaning repenting and turning away from the willful sin.

I think THAT expressed it much more accurately. We are already "forgiven" if we continue in desiring (and trying) to follow Jesus.

CharismaticLady · Oct 10, 2019

Willie T said:
I think THAT expressed it much more accurately. We are already "forgiven" if we continue in desiring (and trying) to follow Jesus.

For willful sins unto death??? I don't believe the Scriptures say anything about forgiving our present and future willful sins, only our past sins. Committing willful sins is not following Jesus; it is in rebellion against God.

FHII · Oct 10, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Do you honestly believe if you willfully sin presently and don't ask for forgiveness that God automatically forgives your sin now and in the future? Show me.

1. Yes

2. Romans 4:8, Romans 5:1, 1John 2:1. I can give plenty more.

3. You changed your statement.

CharismaticLady said:
We are to forgive others their trespasses, not willful sins.

Then you changed it to:

CharismaticLady said:
God, Himself, does not forgive willful sin without repentance. Are we commanded to do something He won't do?

ALL sin needs to be repented. If you miss just one you are accountable for it. The only way is to ask forgiveness for being a sinner... Not each and every sin which it is impossible to remember.

Luke 18:13 KJV
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

He was still a sinner, but he figured it out. It was the pharasee that bragged about not being a sinner.

CharismaticLady · Oct 10, 2019

FHII said:
The only way is to ask forgiveness for being a sinner... Not each and every sin which it is impossible to remember.

I agree. This is the first thing you've said that is true. And that is how we become born again. We admit that we are nothing but a weak sinner, and Jesus cleanses us from all our old sins. But where you and most of the Church are dead wrong is in thinking that Jesus leaves us that way, when Scripture claims the opposite.

You are taking Scriptures in Romans way out of context and believe those sins not imputed to them are future sins, where scripture tells us they are past sins that are not imputed to us. Your twist is completely disregarding 1 John 3. Read that chapter and tell me how it reconciles with what you believe?

OzSpen · Oct 11, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
The WCF says of total depravity:

Chapter 6:
II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

III. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

IV. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

Chapter 9:
III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He freeth him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

==============================

You posted "In their natural state, human beings are hostile toward God and cannot submit to his Law nor please him." Man then has no free will to choose to submit to God's law.

You posted "We cannot even believe the gospel on our own (John 6:44)." Then man has no free will to choose to believe what he has heard (Romans 10:17). Many verses command men to believe and men could not choose to obey that command.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Verses do speak to the fact man has a deceitful wicked heart yet no verse says he was born with a wicked, deceitful heart. Men have wicked hearts by choice, not passively born that away against their will.

I encoirage you to teaf Arminius on total depravity
Some contrasts with WCF.

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
For willful sins unto death??? I don't believe the Scriptures say anything about forgiving our present and future willful sins, only our past sins. Committing willful sins is not following Jesus; it is in rebellion against God.

"... and while we were yet these exact kinds of willful sinners (enemies of Him), God sent His Son to die for us."

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

OzSpen said:
I encoirage you to teaf Arminius on total depravity
Some contrasts with WCF.

I'm not sure Arminius would appreciate being "teafed" ….. no matter who "encoirages" it.

FHII · Oct 11, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I agree. This is the first thing you've said that is true. And that is how we become born again. We admit that we are nothing but a weak sinner, and Jesus cleanses us from all our old sins. But where you and most of the Church are dead wrong is in thinking that Jesus leaves us that way, when Scripture claims the opposite.

You are taking Scriptures in Romans way out of context and believe those sins not imputed to them are future sins, where scripture tells us they are past sins that are not imputed to us. Your twist is completely disregarding 1 John 3. Read that chapter and tell me how it reconciles with what you believe?

By what you've said it seems to me that:

1. You don't believe God forgives all sins;
2. You don't believe God forgives future sins;
3. You believe we must stop sinning to be saved;
4. You believe God gives us power to stop sinning and not even want to sin;
5. Though it is an assumption, you must believe you actually have stopped sinning and have no desires to sin.

Actually that probably works fine for you, since you no longer sin, you don't need God's future forgiveness! You also don't need Grace any longer since you no longer sin.

Your theology is so messed up that it's is unfixable and no longer worthy of discussion

CharismaticLady · Oct 11, 2019

Willie T said:
"... and while we were yet these exact kinds of willful sinners (enemies of Him), God sent His Son to die for us."

We are talking about two different times, before and after Christ. When we come to Christ it doesn't matter what we've done, like Jeffrey Dahmer. Christ takes away and cleanses us of ALL sin, willful and unintentional past sins, and gives us the power to not sin lawlessly again, and as long as we walk in the Spirit and forgive each other our trespasses against each other, our trespasses are automatically cleansed also by our Advocate, 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 2:1. So why willfully sin once you have a nature that abhors sin?

26 If you sin willfully...29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

CharismaticLady · Oct 11, 2019

FHII said:
By what you've said it seems to me that:

1. You don't believe God forgives all sins;
2. You don't believe God forgives future sins;
3. You believe we must stop sinning to be saved;
4. You believe God gives us power to stop sinning and not even want to sin;
5. Though it is an assumption, you must believe you actually have stopped sinning and have no desires to sin.

Actually that probably works fine for you, since you no longer sin, you don't need God's future forgiveness! You also don't need Grace any longer since you no longer sin.

Your theology is so messed up that it's is unfixable and no longer worthy of discussion

You are correct on every matter, except one. I still need grace, the power of God to continue to the end. And you are also correct that I will never adopt your false doctrine that turns grace into licentiousness Jude 1:4. So yes, my not turning to false debauchery is unfixable. I love the light, you want to walk in darkness and have chosen teachers of the same love of darkness to follow.

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
You are correct on every matter, except one. I still need grace, the power of God to continue to the end. And you are also correct that I will never adopt your false doctrine that turns grace into licentiousness Jude 1:4. So yes, my not turning to false debauchery is unfixable. I love the light, you want to walk in darkness and have chosen teachers of the same love of darkness to follow.

Well, that post just blew the idea that you don't sin right out of the water. LOL

bbyrd009 · Oct 11, 2019

but hey, i'm a hypocrite too lol

CharismaticLady · Oct 11, 2019

Willie T said:
Well, that post just blew the idea that you don't sin right out of the water. LOL

How so? I have an idea where you are going. Let's see if I'm right?

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

I think everyone sees it.

Ernest T. Bass · Oct 11, 2019

OzSpen said:
I encoirage you to teaf Arminius on total depravity
Some contrasts with WCF.

So there is disagreements among Calvinists as to what total depravity even means?

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
but hey, i'm a hypocrite too lol

I think all of us are...….. (except for one or two. LOL)

Enoch111 · Oct 11, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
So there is disagreements among Calvinists as to what total depravity even is?

No there are no such disagreements. Most (if not all) Presbyterian churches require their members to subscribe to the Westminster Confession of Faith. And the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith is hardly any different. Both these confessions tell us exactly what the Reformed teaching is on this subject.

Willie T · Oct 11, 2019

Ernest T. Bass said:
So there is disagreements among Calvinists as to what total depravity even is?

Reading what Calvin says it is, (in Institutes), is enough to make you wonder why every Calvinist hasn't already gone ahead and killed themselves.

Enoch111 · Oct 11, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I still need grace, the power of God to continue to the end.

Since you are sinlessly perfect, why do you need such grace? You will remain sinlessly perfect while other Christians honestly address their present sins. It's good to be sinlessly perfect in this life, is it not?

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