The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

Jane_Doe22 said:

Which should be our focus for each individual.

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Therefore, it is imperative that we deter people from believing in and worshiping a false christ (I am referring to the mormon jesus).

Because only the real Jesus can provide real forgiveness of sins and redemption through His blood.

A false jesus may indeed use similar language; but that one is not capable of producing forgiveness of sins to those who believe in him.

justbyfaith said:

Therefore, it is imperative that we deter people from believing in and worshiping a false christ (I am referring to the mormon jesus).

Because only the real Jesus can provide real forgiveness of sins and redemption through His blood.

A false jesus may indeed use similar language; but that one is not capable of producing forgiveness of sins to those who believe in him.

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Nonsense.
We should proclaim Christ & His goodness.
Skip the bashing, focus on to celebrating Christ.

Jane_Doe22 said:

Nonsense.
We should proclaim Christ & His goodness.
Skip the bashing, focus on to celebrating Christ.

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The preaching of the Cross is foolishness (i.e. nonsense) to those who are perishing, 1 Corinthians 1:18.

Your christ is not the same christ as the Christ that I worship and adore; he cannot save you.

You say that the things that have been said about the mormon jesus are lies.

Well, if he is the same jesus, why then would we need the book of mormon?

The gospel found in the Bible is then sufficient.

And since there is a strong probability that the gospel of mormonism is in fact a different one, one would be asking for condemnation if they preached or espoused it to anyone (Galatians 1:6-9).

Why then would anyone want to believe in it?

For if we believe in the gospel, and that gospel be true, are we not called to preach it to all of creation?

But if you have a gospel different than that of Paul, to preach it would make you accursed before the Lord (Galatians 1:6-9).

Therefore ask yourself if "for ye are saved by grace, after all that ye can do," coincides with what we find in Titus 3:4-7, for example.

Or if the same doesn't end up robbing you of the teaching of grace to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, since you cannot have grace until after you have done everything in your life to earn it; from my understanding of that verse. And I believe that I also have an understanding that is literal and based on the doctrine that those who preach the gospel do so with "great plainness of speech," (2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)) and that therefore if the verse in the book of mormon be valid as preaching a gospel, it is preaching a different gospel than what Paul was preaching in Titus 3:4-7 and Titus 2:11-12.

Therefore all who preach it are worthy of being accursed according to Paul's estimation in Galatians 1:6-9.

Fortunately for you, the real Jesus died on the Cross for every sin.

@Jane_Doe22
I can understand your position in this. You're reticence in having to face criticism for your own membership in a marginal group necessitates your pleading for people to back off others. I guess you gotta be consistent right? You have a very subjective horse in this race.
I have read the many threads that critique the LDS church, and you have taken such critiques as personally as do Catholics take criticism of theirs. You, like them, like to conflate criticism of a system and of doctrine with hatred and personal character attacks. And like them, it really is your only defense. You claim to live Jesus and identify as a Christian... Great... Yet you distance yourself from the more biblically egregious teachings of your church by claiming that is not what you believe. Yet you remain in an institution that not only believes these things, but teaches them as foundational to the LDS. You say you love Jesus, and I couldn't be more happy for you. But from your own testimony I do not know what Jesus you love. The Mormon Jesus or the Jesus revealed in scripture. Because I can assure you, they are not one and the same.

Brakelite2 said:

@Jane_Doe22
I can understand your position in this. You're reticence in having to face criticism for your own membership in a marginal group necessitates your pleading for people to back off others. I guess you gotta be consistent right? You have a very subjective horse in this race.
I have read the many threads that critique the LDS church, and you have taken such critiques as personally as do Catholics take criticism of theirs. You, like them, like to conflate criticism of a system and of doctrine with hatred and personal character attacks. And like them, it really is your only defense. You claim to live Jesus and identify as a Christian... Great... Yet you distance yourself from the more biblically egregious teachings of your church by claiming that is not what you believe. Yet you remain in an institution that not only believes these things, but teaches them as foundational to the LDS. You say you love Jesus, and I couldn't be more happy for you. But from your own testimony I do not know what Jesus you love. The Mormon Jesus or the Jesus revealed in scripture. Because I can assure you, they are not one and the same.

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Now swap out LDS for SDA and what do you get. Pot calling teh kettle black.

mjrhealth said:

Now swap out LDS for SDA and what do you get. Pot calling teh kettle black.

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Not at all. I have never once backed off from explaining Adventist doctrine. Even in the face of those who choose to not believe a word I say and claim to understand more about my motives than I do. And unlike Jane, I fully agree with my church's teachings... Even the more controversial ones.
Oh, and the Jesus I believe and trust in is the same Jesus revealed in scripture. The only begotten Son of the Father.
What I don't agree with are the numerous presumptions and deliberate misleading that is so prevalent regarding Adventistism. And I don't insult people nor take things personally... Accepting and taking criticism is a part of life... So long as it's valid and based on what we actually do teach.

Brakelite2 said:

Not at all. I have never once backed off from explaining Adventist doctrine. Even in the face of those who choose to not believe a word I say and claim to understand more about my motives than I do. And unlike Jane, I fully agree with my church's teachings... Even the more controversial ones.
Oh, and the Jesus I believe and trust in is the same Jesus revealed in scripture. The only begotten Son of the Father.
What I don't agree with are the numerous presumptions and deliberate misleading that is so prevalent regarding Adventistism. And I don't insult people nor take things personally... Accepting and taking criticism is a part of life... So long as it's valid and based on what we actually do teach.

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Well so do the catholics, mormans, JWs, are you all right.?? Are your "doctrines" ant more right than theirs. As we are warned

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Friend of mine where just chatting about church, I have being telling her for a long time, it is about "what your are joined to". but she hadnt got it, because when she became a christian she asked the Lord if she could go to church, and He said, yes for in there you will find like minded people. But what we could never understand is why He never warned her of the consequence, and today she got the answer, because that would not be His will, because He does not tell us what to do.

al to do with marriage this bit

Eph_5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

for it warns us

1Co_6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

see its fine to go to church, problem is the moment you Join yourself to it, you become one with your church and to do that you have to give up Christ, you cannot serve two masters,

Luk_16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And that Brakelite is why BOL and all the catholics sound like catholics, why you and you SDAS friends all sound the same and why JWS never change no matter what country you are in, you have left your husband Christ for a harlot. Dont you get it.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

I hope you get5 it soon time is running out

Brakelite2 said:

You, like them, like to conflate criticism of a system and of doctrine with hatred and personal character attacks.

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There you have it. I have said this many times that the issue is not with the ADHERENTS of a false system of Christianity. The issue is with the OFFICIAL DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES as promoted by their clergy.

Since this thread is about Jesuits, honest Catholics should admit that the Jesuits have engaged in heinous activities in the past (and possibly even now) and therefore their evil deeds must be repudiated by all. They have been held responsible for the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.

U.S. Army Brigadier General Thomas M. Harris wrote a 112 page book titled “Rome’s Responsibility for the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln” (1897). He stated:

"It is my purpose now to review the facts connected with the assassination of President Lincoln, and the attempted assassination of Mr. Seward, and the purpose to assassinate Vice-President Johnson, Secretary Stanton and General Grant.

These facts, as developed on the trial of the conspirators before a military commission, and on the trial of John H. Surratt two years
later, before a civil court, together with evidence secured by Father Chiniquy, and given to the world in his book, "Fifty Years In the Church of Rome." show conclusively the hand of Rome in this stab at our nation's life.

I do not propose to affirm or deny the charge that is now being commonly and openly made by patriotic papers and lecturers, that Rome was responsible for the assassination of our martyred President, but simply to present the facts, and leave my readers to draw their conclusion from a consideration of the facts in the case. My own personal convictions will no doubt be made obvious before I get through.

The very fact that the charge is being made by a high class of men, men noted for intelligence, patriotism and uprightness of character, justifies us in making a careful scrutiny of the evidence on which it rests; that we may fairly judge whether or not it has been justly made. It is a charge of too much gravity and of too serious an import to be made lightly, or on insufficient grounds."

Harris identified all five conspirators in the assassination plot as Roman Catholics, and identified John H. Surrat as a "Jesuitical priest". Surrat was kept hidden away for five months under the care of the RCC. Harris also stated that several priests who were called as witnesses gave evidence under "the well understood mental reservations of the Jesuits":"Thompson used the Jesuitical argument, that to kill a tyrant was no murder".

He went on to say: "It was soon ascertained that it was John
Wilkes Booth who had shot the President; and the detectives
soon discovered that Surratt was an accomplice
of Booth; and that Booth had been a frequent caller,
of late, at the house of Mrs. Surratt; and so, within six
hours after the assassination, Mrs. Surratt' s house was
visited by the detectives, and all of its inmates were
kept under their surveillance."

Enoch111 said:

Harris identified all five conspirators in the assassination plot as Roman Catholics, and identified John H. Surrat as a "Jesuitical priest".

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Priests got married then? I don't think Surrat was married at the time of Lincoln's assassination, but he did get married later. Is there no limit to what these Jesuits will do? They even get married!

Enoch111 said:

There you have it. I have said this many times that the issue is not with the ADHERENTS of a false system of Christianity.

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I guess you both know what you are talking about, being a part of one.

Brakelite2 said:

Whatever evidence I provided would be written off as fake, fraudulent, and the originators as liars and deceivers. I have been offering evidence for years of Jesuit perfidy and neither you nor anyone else has accepted it in the past. Why should I think that would change?

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Perhaps your evidence is just fake or fraudulent like the OP.

Enoch111 said:

There you have it. I have said this many times that the issue is not with the ADHERENTS of a false system of Christianity. The issue is with the OFFICIAL DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES as promoted by their clergy.

Since this thread is about Jesuits, honest Catholics should admit that the Jesuits have engaged in heinous activities in the past (and possibly even now) and therefore their evil deeds must be repudiated by all. They have been held responsible for the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.

Click to expand...

And apparently the Jesuits were responsible for the sinking of the Titanic.

The building of the Titanic at the Harland and Wolff shipyard in Belfast coincided with a meeting of top bankers at the Jekyll Island Club, Georgia, an exclusive winter retreat for the super-rich. It was here, in November 1910, that representatives of J P Morgan, the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers agreed to set up the US Federal Reserve, America’s central banking system.

This much is a matter of historical record. What isn’t widely known is that these men were acting on behalf of their paymasters, the Jesuits, who “desperately wanted a central bank in America so that they would have a bottomless reservoir from which to draw money for their many wars and other hideous schemes around the world”.....

Anyway, the Jesuits knew that the creation of the “Fed” would be opposed by powerful men outside the Rothschild/Morgan/Rockefeller cartel. These opponents “had to be destroyed by a means so preposterous that no one would suspect they were murdered”. So the Society of Jesus, displaying its trademark cunning, ordered the building of an “unsinkable” death ship that would take its plutocrat passengers – who included members of the Guggenheim and Astor families – to a watery grave.

To this end, they employed a ship’s captain, Edward Smith, who was a “Jesuit tempore coadjator” [sic] – not a priest, but a “Jesuit of the short robe” who furthered the Society’s aims in his secular profession. To cut a long story short, he was ordered by his masters to steer the ship towards an iceberg and did just that. The real estate magnate John Jacob Astor, who might have used his $85 million to block the central bank, perished in the floating palace.

No sooner had the Titanic sunk, on April 15 1912, than US public opinion began to swing in favour of a federal reserve and it was duly set up in 1913. Job done. The Jesuits then had the cash to embark on their next project – the First World War.

Mungo said:

You don't even attempt to justify your lies by any evidence.

This thread is just an anti-Catholic, hate-fest.

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What? I need in this day and age to produce evidence as to whether the "donation of Constantine" was a forgery? And the Decretals? Really?

And an anti Catholic hate fest? Tell me honestly Mungo. Do you really truly believe I hate you?

Brakelite2 said:

What? I need in this day and age to produce evidence as to whether the "donation of Constantine" was a forgery? And the Decretals? Really?

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Tell me about it.

Brakelite2 said:

And an anti Catholic hate fest? Tell me honestly Mungo. Do you really truly believe I hate you?

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You, and certain others, do a very good impression of that.

Mungo said:

Tell me about it

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Any average encyclopedia would offer a clearer understanding than I regarding the details of how that forgery was used to sustain papal supremacy in Europe and how the principles thereof found their way into "infallible" papal dogma.... Or not.

Mungo said:

You, and certain others, do a very good impression of that.

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Can you give an example of where I addressed you personally in a derogatory way and which would convince you of hatred on my part?

Brakelite2 said:

@Jane_Doe22
I can understand your position in this. You're reticence in having to face criticism for your own membership in a marginal group necessitates your pleading for people to back off others. I guess you gotta be consistent right? You have a very subjective horse in this race.
I have read the many threads that critique the LDS church, and you have taken such critiques as personally as do Catholics take criticism of theirs. You, like them, like to conflate criticism of a system and of doctrine with hatred and personal character attacks. And like them, it really is your only defense. You claim to live Jesus and identify as a Christian... Great... Yet you distance yourself from the more biblically egregious teachings of your church by claiming that is not what you believe. Yet you remain in an institution that not only believes these things, but teaches them as foundational to the LDS. You say you love Jesus, and I couldn't be more happy for you. But from your own testimony I do not know what Jesus you love. The Mormon Jesus or the Jesus revealed in scripture. Because I can assure you, they are not one and the same.

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I stand up against people whom are bullying / flaming / persecuting others because such actions are intrinsically sinful. It doesn't matter whom the victim is -- such is sin. And such actions being done in the name go Christ is extra repulsive.

justbyfaith said:

The preaching of the Cross is foolishness (i.e. nonsense) to those who are perishing, 1 Corinthians 1:18.

Your christ is not the same christ as the Christ that I worship and adore; he cannot save you.

You say that the things that have been said about the mormon jesus are lies.

Well, if he is the same jesus, why then would we need the book of mormon?

The gospel found in the Bible is then sufficient.

And since there is a strong probability that the gospel of mormonism is in fact a different one, one would be asking for condemnation if they preached or espoused it to anyone (Galatians 1:6-9).

Why then would anyone want to believe in it?

For if we believe in the gospel, and that gospel be true, are we not called to preach it to all of creation?

But if you have a gospel different than that of Paul, to preach it would make you accursed before the Lord (Galatians 1:6-9).

Therefore ask yourself if "for ye are saved by grace, after all that ye can do," coincides with what we find in Titus 3:4-7, for example.

Or if the same doesn't end up robbing you of the teaching of grace to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, since you cannot have grace until after you have done everything in your life to earn it; from my understanding of that verse. And I believe that I also have an understanding that is literal and based on the doctrine that those who preach the gospel do so with "great plainness of speech," (2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv)) and that therefore if the verse in the book of mormon be valid as preaching a gospel, it is preaching a different gospel than what Paul was preaching in Titus 3:4-7 and Titus 2:11-12.

Therefore all who preach it are worthy of being accursed according to Paul's estimation in Galatians 1:6-9.

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Justbyfaith, I look forward to the day you are actually willing to do a real investigation, be a real Berean, here and we can have a real conversation. Not one where you just blindly repeat Walter Martin like a tape recorder, no matter the evidence against all of those claims.

justbyfaith said:

Therefore, it is imperative that we deter people from believing in and worshiping a false christ (I am referring to the mormon jesus).

Because only the real Jesus can provide real forgiveness of sins and redemption through His blood.

A false jesus may indeed use similar language; but that one is not capable of producing forgiveness of sins to those who believe in him.

Click to expand...

Therefore, it is imperative that we deter people from believing in and worshiping a false Christ.
Man you have to be kidding!
The Jews thought that Christ would be a human warlord king.
Some Christians think He is the Son of God.
Some Christians think He is the Almighty God and the creator of the world.
Some believe He is one person and they all created the world and were crucified on the cross all at the same time.