Indeed they are inseparably one...now.
The Father deserted him on the cross, but the Father raised him to fully indwell him bodily, forever.
See, the Father may have to leave, but He came back once and for all.
The son has it made now.
Did Jesus claim to be God?
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The Father deserted him on the cross, but the Father raised him to fully indwell him bodily, forever.
See, the Father may have to leave, but He came back once and for all.
The son has it made now.
Cooper
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You will not have it that Jesus (the WORD) created the heavens and the earth and is fully God, the God of the Old Testament.
Instead of which you deny Jesus for still preaching right up until the end by quoting Psalm 22:1 in fulfilment of prophesy.
You speak of what you do not know.
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I believe Jesus is God by default per the Col 2:9 effect on his body after his God resurrected him from the dead.
You believe Jesus was a microscopic God that later died.
As long as we come to the same conclusion, that Jesus is God, we are fine, right?
Cooper
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The above is offensive to a Christian.
Genesis 1:1 God is the Creator
John 1:3-10 Jesus is the Creator
Genesis 17:1 The Almighty is God
Rev. 1:8 Jesus is the Almighty
Exodus 3:14 The “I am” is God
John 8:58 Jesus is the “I am”
Deut. 10:17 The Lord of Lords is God
Rev. 19:16 Jesus is Lord of Lords
Ps 18:31 The Rock is God
I Cor 10:4 Jesus is the Rock
Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus
Ps 146:10 God shall reign forever
Luke 1:33 Jesus will reign forever
Isa 40:11 The Shepherd is God
John 10:16 Jesus is the Shepherd
Isa 41:14 The Redeemer is God
Luke 1:68 Jesus is the Redeemer
Isa 43:10 God said, “I am he”
John 8:24 Jesus said, “I am he”
Isa 43:10,11 (God is the Saviour
Luke 2:11 Jesus is the Saviour
Jer 31:32 God, the One Husband
II Cor. 11:2 Jesus-The One Husband
Zec 14:4-5 God is coming
Matt 25:31 Jesus is coming
Mal 1:6 The One Master is God
Matt 23:8 Jesus is the One Master
Isa 43:15 The Holy One is God
Acts 3:14 Jesus is the Holy One
Isa 43:15 God is King of Israel
Matt 27:37 Jesus is King of Israel
Isa 45:21 The One Saviour is God
Acts 4:12 Jesus is the One Saviour
Isa 43:10,11 God is the only Saviour
Titus 1:4 Jesus is the only Saviour
Isa 44:6 The first and last is God
Rev. 1:8, 22:13 Jesus is first and last
Isa. 44:6 The King of Israel is God
John 1:49 Jesus is King of Israel
Isa. 45:23 Every knee must bow to God
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee must bow to Jesus
Psalms 22:16 They pierced my hands and my feet
Zechariah 12:10 They pierced me – God
John 19:34 They pierced Jesus
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Our blessed Lord constantly affirmed that Jehovah was His Father. Yet the inspired Scripture insists that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Our dear Savior is the Son of the Highest for He is the Son of God. Indeed without controversy is this mystery of Godliness. Now we must stand in awe of the fact that God was manifest in the flesh which of course is God the Son, and justified in the Spirit the blessed third person of the Holy Trinity. Now on the occasion of the baptism of the Lord Jesus by John, we read that the voice of God the Father speaking when God the Holy Spirit, embodied as a dove descended upon God the Son, is not surprising therefore that Jesus should declare to His disciples that they baptize in the name of the Holy Trinity. Having declared that He is sovereign and omnipotent, He says: all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. esus commands those whom He has carefully taught to disciple the nations of the earth, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. God is ONE JEHOVAH! Although He is plainly declared to subsist as three separately identifiable persons. Since there is only one baptism according to Ephesians 4:5, and since to act in the name of another is to act upon His authority, true baptism is upon the authority of the triune God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Blessed Trinity, One Jehovah for all eternity. And not only is baptism to be in the name (singular by the way) of the One God (singular) but who subsist in three persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But the Trinity is seen also in the mighty work of Jehovah throughout the New Testament. In 1 Peter 1:2 we see that the saints are elect in accordance with the foreknowledge of God which is based upon His immutable plan. Peter says that election is the work of God the Father, that our sanctification is the work of God the Holy Spirit, that our redemption is through the blood of God the Son. Our Lord Himself taught Nicodemus that it is God the Holy Spirit who regenerates, God the Son who redeems, and God the Father who reveals His love and grace.
But perhaps the most dramatic declaration of the Trinity lies in the manner in which the Scriptures declares that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ALIKE raised Jesus from among the dead! In Acts 13:30 as well as Romans 6:4, is plainly stated that God the Father resurrected our dear Savior. Christ was raised from among the dead by the glory of the Father, we read. Yet in John 2:19; 10:17,19, we’re specifically taught that the Son raised Himself from among the dead. For it is said, Jesus answered them, ‘destroy the temple and in three days I will raise it up again,’ and He spoke of the temple of His body and He said: I will raise it up. And again Christ said: ”Therefore doth my Father love me because I lay down my life that I might take it again. No man takes my life from me, I lay it down by myself, I have the power to lay it down, I have the power to take it up again.”
Yet the apostle Paul and Peter insist that the Savior was resurrected from among the dead by God the Holy Spirit. Christ has once suffered for sins to be put to death by the flesh, made alive by the Holy Spirit (does this answer your question?) How marvelous is the clarity of the testimony of the word of God!
Jehovah is indeed ONE, as perfect unity in essence and substance yet He is three as to persons.
To God Be The Glory
Good post.
Now look at the comparisons.
Look at God doing these feats THROUGH Christ, not AS Christ.
Jesus' God empowers Jesus through Jesus as God.
This is not offensive to a Christian, but informative.
The offense is to Jesus himself, when one teaches that he is not an individual with a God per Rev 3:12 etc, but a mere role of God, acting as an individual using deceptive words.
Cooper
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You are fighting the Creator, Saviour, Healer, Baptiser and Coming King every step of the way. According to Jesus when he was speaking to his generation in John 8:44 the god of the Jews did none of those things. I need to put you on ignore.
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101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, second, the statement you gave above makes no sense.
A. How are you using the term "Father", in a Spiritual Sense, or in a biological sense?
B. "Scripture insists that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit". ok, if he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit is the actual Father if you are using Father in a biological sense. because in a biological setting, the conceiver is the "father", which eliminates any biological sense of a father, or you will have to call the Holy Spirit FATHER......
C. "Now we must stand in awe of the fact that God was manifest in the flesh which of course is God the Son". if God manifested in the flesh, (which he did), how is he his "own" Son?. that's of course if you are using a biological setting, and that want even fly because the Holy Spirit would be the Father.
see how this don't even add up.
I have yet to have anyone to prove by scripture that the voice that came from heaven at our Lord's baptism is the FATHER'S voice, maybe you have scripture for that. if so please post it.
no where has God said that his name is "JEHOVAH". men have said that his name is "JEHOVAH". if you have the scriptures that says that his PERSONAL name is "JEHOVAH" please post it.
how can he be three if the Holy Spirit is the conceiver of one of him? see B. above.
the name of all three is "Jehovah?", which is not God PERSONAL NAME. Father, son, and Holy Spirit are only titles of ONE and the SAME PERSON. if God have one name then there is no seperation, for there is no diction. and if Jesus came in his Fathers name, and his Father's name according to you is "JEHOVAH" how come our Lord name is not "JEHOVAH", or "JEHOVAH", Jr. .......
JESUS sounds nothing like "JEHOVAH". so that want fly.well you have a contridiction, if your God raised up Jesus and you say also as the scriptures teach that Jesus "RAISED" up his own body, then either Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit, who is Father, or else JESUS, Peter, and Paul all lied. SO PLEASE TELL US CLEARLY WHO RAISED UP JESUS BODY.
THIS I'LL BE LOOKING FOR THAT ANSWER.
PICJAG.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
In the New Testament, Christ is referred to as ‘the Son of God’ over 40 times. This can be found in such as Matthew 8:29, 14:33, 26:63, 27:40, 43, 54, Mark 1:1, 3:11, 15:39, Luke1:35, 31, 4:41, 8:28, 22:70, John 1:34, 49, 3:16, 18, 5:25, 9:35, 10:36, 11:4, 11:27, 19:7,20:31, Acts 8:37, 9:20, Romans 1:4, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Galatians 2:20, Ephesians 4:13,
Hebrews 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29, 1 John 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 12, 13, 20 and Revelation 2:18.
Jesus consistently referred to God as His Father (see Matthew 7:21, 10:32, 33, 11:27, 12:50,15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19, 35, 20:23, 24:36, 26:29, 39, 42, 53, Mark 8:38, Luke 2:49, 9:26,10:22, 22:29, 42, 23:46, 24:49, John 2:16, 5:17, 43, 6:32, 65, 8:19, 28, 38, 49, 54, 10:17, 18,25, 29, 30, 32, 37, 12:26, 27, 14:2, 7, 12, 14:13, 20, 21, 23, 28 15:1, 8, 10, 15, 23, 24, 16:10,17:24, 18:11, 20:17, 20:21, Revelation 2:27, 3:5, and 21).
There are a number of very important times when Jesus referred to Himself as a son. Ones such occasion was when He said to Nicodemus
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his
Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be
saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten
Son of God.” John 3:16-18
Nicodemus was told by Jesus that it was “God” who was doing the giving and sending. He was obviously referring to the Father. Again we see the Father as having the pre-eminence
(He is the one doing the giving and sending). This is the pre-eminence of a father as in a true father and son relationship.
Ita also the reveals the love of the Father – also the sacrifice He made – in the giving of His only Son
There is no reason to suggest that Jesus intended Nicodemus to believe that He (Jesus) was a son in a metaphorical or figurative sense – or believe that for the sake of the plan of redemption He was only role-playing the part of a son (pretending to be a son). Nicodemus, because he was not told otherwise, would have taken Christ’s claim to Sonship as being literal. As Jesus said, God gave “his only begotten Son”. How else was Nicodemus to understand what Jesus was saying to him? Surely if the Father gave His only begotten Son, then He had a Son to give.
There is something here very important to note. This is that Jesus said to Nicodemus it was God who was doing the giving and sending. We must ask therefore, if the divine person doing this sending is not really a father then what right would He (the role-playing father) have to ‘give’ another Divine person? For ‘the Father’ to have this prerogative there would need to be a real Father and Son relationship. If no such relationship existed, then even the ‘giving’ of the Son (who was
not really a son) would be a complete charade (something which is make believe).
What I am saying, or asking, is if there are three co equal persons in the Trinity, how can one have authority over another except it be a genuine Father/Son relationship?
Hebrews 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29, 1 John 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 12, 13, 20 and Revelation 2:18.
Jesus consistently referred to God as His Father (see Matthew 7:21, 10:32, 33, 11:27, 12:50,15:13, 16:17, 18:10,19, 35, 20:23, 24:36, 26:29, 39, 42, 53, Mark 8:38, Luke 2:49, 9:26,10:22, 22:29, 42, 23:46, 24:49, John 2:16, 5:17, 43, 6:32, 65, 8:19, 28, 38, 49, 54, 10:17, 18,25, 29, 30, 32, 37, 12:26, 27, 14:2, 7, 12, 14:13, 20, 21, 23, 28 15:1, 8, 10, 15, 23, 24, 16:10,17:24, 18:11, 20:17, 20:21, Revelation 2:27, 3:5, and 21).
There are a number of very important times when Jesus referred to Himself as a son. Ones such occasion was when He said to Nicodemus
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his
Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be
saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten
Son of God.” John 3:16-18
Nicodemus was told by Jesus that it was “God” who was doing the giving and sending. He was obviously referring to the Father. Again we see the Father as having the pre-eminence
(He is the one doing the giving and sending). This is the pre-eminence of a father as in a true father and son relationship.
Ita also the reveals the love of the Father – also the sacrifice He made – in the giving of His only Son
There is no reason to suggest that Jesus intended Nicodemus to believe that He (Jesus) was a son in a metaphorical or figurative sense – or believe that for the sake of the plan of redemption He was only role-playing the part of a son (pretending to be a son). Nicodemus, because he was not told otherwise, would have taken Christ’s claim to Sonship as being literal. As Jesus said, God gave “his only begotten Son”. How else was Nicodemus to understand what Jesus was saying to him? Surely if the Father gave His only begotten Son, then He had a Son to give.
There is something here very important to note. This is that Jesus said to Nicodemus it was God who was doing the giving and sending. We must ask therefore, if the divine person doing this sending is not really a father then what right would He (the role-playing father) have to ‘give’ another Divine person? For ‘the Father’ to have this prerogative there would need to be a real Father and Son relationship. If no such relationship existed, then even the ‘giving’ of the Son (who was
not really a son) would be a complete charade (something which is make believe).
What I am saying, or asking, is if there are three co equal persons in the Trinity, how can one have authority over another except it be a genuine Father/Son relationship?
Jesus has always been God. When he was born as a human he took on a human nature in addition to his divine nature. It was his human nature that was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Oh, cmon!
Ignore a point of view that is not exactly like yours?
Good debaters try harder than that.
Cooper
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Of course the man Christ Jesus spoke in the O.T.
He has always existed in the reality of the mind of God.
God even addressed Himself and the man Christ Jesus when making Adam in the likeness of the man Christ Jesus.
God even observed Jesus dying on the cross and communicating with Him before the world began, and illustrated it in Psalm 22:1-18, some 1000 years before he was born.
God can do that.
Not only that, Jesus had to be born in the image and likeness of a man because it was man who sinned!
Jesus became the second Adam.
To God Be The Glory
Cooper
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The mind of God my foot. Jesus IS God.
"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Matthew 22:32
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101G
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply, second, Finally, someone who have the truth. Jesus is always been God, (which is the truth), and it was God who name is Jesus raise up his own body, which is the Son of God, that which was born.... flesh. and that flesh was conceived by the Holy Spirit, (who is the Father/JESUS, not diversified). the spirit nature was given, never born.
thank you.
PICJAG
@101G and @Brakelite2,
Great is the controversy of the Trinity. The Trinity is one of many reasons why it is misunderstood because people read and critic the Bible as an ordinary, instead of a spiritual book.
Jesus spoke in parables (Mark 4:34) and without a parable He did not speak to them, that seeing they may see and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand, lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them (Mark 4:12).
In contrast, the just/believers shall live by faith (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11).
"We walk by faith and not by sight" (2 Corinthians 1:24).
Read Hebrews Chapter 11.
The million dollar reason:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8:9
To God Be The Glory
Great is the controversy of the Trinity. The Trinity is one of many reasons why it is misunderstood because people read and critic the Bible as an ordinary, instead of a spiritual book.
Jesus spoke in parables (Mark 4:34) and without a parable He did not speak to them, that seeing they may see and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand, lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them (Mark 4:12).
In contrast, the just/believers shall live by faith (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11).
"We walk by faith and not by sight" (2 Corinthians 1:24).
Read Hebrews Chapter 11.
The million dollar reason:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Ephesians 2:8:9
To God Be The Glory
God was murdered by humans?
Or Jesus, the human son of God which God forsook, died by humans?
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
No one in the know who posted here in CB ever said that Jesus is NOT God! In fact, at least I, have argued that He is the "The Great, I AM"
Now God should not be thought of as separate individuals in the sense of Peter, James, and John because Peter, James, and John are not one. They are lacking in absolute unity. There is disagreement among them. There is the difference as to gifts and capabilities, and quality of brains and so forth. They are not equal, they are not one in unity and substance, in essence, and purpose, and so on, as God is indeed one. So we must not take them as three different persons like Peter, James, and John, for this denies His absolute unity and substance, and essence. On the other hand, to say God is an absolute unity in the sense as of one alone without subsisting as three persons is also heresy according to the Bible. And so all of us in our hearts today should join in the doxology of the church:
Praise God in whom all blessings flow
Praise Him all creatures here below
Praise Him above ye heavenly hosts
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
For our God indeed is ONE GOD and yet we see that the Scriptures teach plainly, although we cannot understand how, the Scriptures teach plainly that God is ONE, He exists in one unity, He subsists in three persons as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For the Bible teaches indeed that the Father is God. It teaches indeed that the Son is God. It teaches indeed that the Holy Spirit is God. Three persons, distinct, and separate. And yet in the same breath that declares, this God who exists in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exist as ONE GOD, ONE JEHOVAH for all of eternity!
To God Be The Glory
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
No, Good was not murdered by humans. The Divine Soo of God gave His life a ransom for many.
There's a world of difference between offering your own life on behalf of others, and having your life taken by others. The former reveals the true extrent of the love of God.
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