Not faith alone?

kcnalp said:

The Law of Moses was ONLY for Israel. Nobody else! Have you read the curse in the Law?

Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;

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It is not good to quote half a verse...that is what the devil does.

The law of Moses is not only for Israel.

Before we came to faith, we were kept under it (Galatians 3:23). Are we not Gentiles?

And unbelieving Gentiles will be held accountable by the law and counted as guilty before God because of it (Romans 3:19-20).

kcnalp said:

What does that have to do with the topic?

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Nothing...I just thought that I noticed that your sleeping patterns are irregular.

Because mine have also been irregular...and we have been engaging pretty consistently.

I'm going to get some sleep...

Perhaps I will see you in the morning.

justbyfaith said:

It is not good to quote half a verse...that is what the devil does.

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Half a verse?

The law of Moses is not only for Israel.

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Then why don't you obey it?

Before we came to faith, we were kept under it (Galatians 3:23).

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So it's ok for YOU to "quote half a verse"?
Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

And unbelieving Gentiles will be held accountable by the law and counted as guilty before God because of it (Romans 3:19-20).

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Why don't you quote the Scriptures?

justbyfaith said:

Nothing...I just thought that I noticed that your sleeping patterns are irregular.

Because mine have also been irregular...and we have been engaging pretty consistently.

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Ok. I worked 3rd shift many years.

justbyfaith said:

I'm going to get some sleep...

Perhaps I will see you in the morning.

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Good night and God bless.

justbyfaith said:

No it isn't.

You calling me a liar?

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You certainly have not understood Rom 5:19 according to Rom 5 19 how were they made righteous?

Taken said:

Not faith alone?
OP ^

FAITH- IS Paramount.
FAITH- IS Gods Requirement for Conversion.
FAITH- IS Gods Free Gift, to the Willing and Desiring To Receive.

HOW TO Receive Gods Gift of FAITH, is expressly Taught IN Scripture.

From a "TASTING" of FAITH.
(Which you could lose)
To a FAITH-"FULLNESS".
(Which you can never lose)
All in Scripture for one to seek, find, freely accept or reject.

There is NO Forgiveness,
There is NO Salvation,
There is NO Quickening,
Without FAITH.

Glory to God,
Taken

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Those Christ died for are forgiven and reconciled to God while being enemies in unbeiief Rom 5 10

theefaith said:

faith alone is meaningless and avails nothing 1 cor 13:3-3 ALL Faith even

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Salvation through faith in Christ alone “apart from works” is not meaningless. It’s scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains “alone“ - “barren of works.” (James 2:14-17)

In regards to 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is using hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love at all to express the importance of love. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6) but we are saved through faith, not faith + love. Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do. We won't need faith and hope in heaven. In 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith is insufficient to save us without our best efforts to love.

Paul is stressing that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" are now seen (Hebrews 11:1) once we are in the presence of the Lord and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because He has appeared and believers will be with Him forever, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. So Paul is not teaching that we are saved by faith "plus acts of love/works." All genuine BELIEVERS love Christ. Why? Because we have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19).

theefaith said:

the power of grace is that it enables us to be holy, sanctified, and ALL our actions!

Colossians 1:6
Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, andknew the grace of God in truth:

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

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Grace is the unmerited favor of God in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our performance or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Galatians 2:21 - "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9 - "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Yet God's grace (enabling power) operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

theefaith said:

Faith alone is condemned by the teaching authority of the holy apostles in council and cannot be true! Lk 10:16

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No it's not and it's unbelievers who reject Him. You need to stop confusing salvation through faith which trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)

when did anyone die with Christ or put on Christ or has sins washed away or eter the body of Christ thru faith alone???

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Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Acts 22:16

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Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Rom 6:3

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In regards to Romans 6:3, "baptized into Christ Jesus" you assume means to be water baptized into the body of Christ, but this is erroneous. Believers are Spirit baptized (and not water baptized) into the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, but in regards to "identification" and it's the same with water baptism. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16, 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25).

1 cor 12:13

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1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Gal 3:27

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Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) *Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is" enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean they were literally water baptized into the body of Moses, as I already explained to you.

"Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:12,14). This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well (Romans 13:14). Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

Paul wrote "put off the old man," and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." (Ephesians 4:22,24) And, "put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." (Ephesians 6:11) The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier. Putting on a judge's robe does not, in itself, make anyone become a "judge." But, one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on "judicial robes" and thus declare their qualifications.

So too with being water baptized, the new believer/Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14. If one puts on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

There are a number of alleged prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Some of the most common such proof texts are Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-4, and 1 Peter 3:21. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

theefaith said:

Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

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That just means not to give up on your faith. Because by faith all things are possible and thru God we do all things with faith even if it means going thru dire circumstances.

The law isn't faith. It's obedience. God has certain laws to keep us safe and right with him. The law isn't a work. It's just obedience. The work in the law is itself the work. Just like the ten commandments. If someone murders or steal that is the "work" they did, work means working just like to steal means stealing. Being obedient is to fear God and want to remain right with him. That's why we obey the laws. Well try too. Faith is to trust and believe. It's to keep going no matter what.

They say if you break one law you break them all. Doing that just makes you careless and don't care about the law.

kcnalp said:

What was the thief's works? He confessed that he believed in Jesus. That was all he needed to obtain salvation.

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John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Taken said:

In context...
We...WHO were enemies.
We...WHO were reconciled.

Absolutely...Jesus' Act WAS Giving His Flesh Body, Once and FOR All.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

• No doubt Jesus accomplished His Work and Gave His Body of Flesh For the LIFE OF the World.

• The OFFERING TO Men...

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the Offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

• the Caveat... What Jesus DID...requires a A Response from men TO DO.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

There IS NO Force or Effect (UPON or in a man) by Jesus' Act of Giving His Body Or of Jesus Offering His Body...

Until ... a man Acts and Accepts Jesus' Offering...which THEN the reconciliation IS Effected IN the man.

Glory to God,
Taken

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Anyone can say they believe, but what happens if you break a law? Say you murdered someone and went to jail or prison. You still would suffer for that crime. Or say someone rob the bank and believed in Jesus? They still would be punish for the crime. I don't believe in that. There's no place where the law dont exist because if we say we believe in Jesus and then say I won't do this crime or that crime because I love Christ that's still keeping the law in your heart and even if someone say they believe in Jesus and break a law or commit a "crime", they will be forgiven by God, get real dude the laws are what put Jesus on that cross. So whether someone is under the law or not the law is always at work. If the laws don't matter, there's no hell where people go.

Taken said:

In context...
We...WHO were enemies.
We...WHO were reconciled.

Absolutely...Jesus' Act WAS Giving His Flesh Body, Once and FOR All.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

• No doubt Jesus accomplished His Work and Gave His Body of Flesh For the LIFE OF the World.

• The OFFERING TO Men...

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the Offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

• the Caveat... What Jesus DID...requires a A Response from men TO DO.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

There IS NO Force or Effect (UPON or in a man) by Jesus' Act of Giving His Body Or of Jesus Offering His Body...

Until ... a man Acts and Accepts Jesus' Offering...which THEN the reconciliation IS Effected IN the man.

Glory to God,
Taken

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It's in context. Now according to Rom 5 10 when were they reconciled to God? What condition were they in?

brightfame52 said:

It's in context. Now according to Rom 5 10 when were they reconciled to God? What condition were they in?

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We all were enemies. We all are still enemies in sin. Through belief we get accepted of God and Christ. To be reconcile is to connect thru God after that belief. Build a relationship with him and stuff. Connect with him. Go back to the father. Talk to him. Abide. Reconcile means to turn back to God, obedience doesn't stop after the belief. There's still are conditions after the belief. To believe is to just accept Christ.