teleiosis said:
This is silly. Guess what veteran: You're following the Post-Trib tradition of men too. You think you're unique? You think you're the first one to think like you do?
The time of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church is after the tribulation per God's Word, so of course I'm heeding The Bible on that point for it is written. But those who teach His coming to gather His Church is prior to that tribulation, including prior to His wrath upon the wicked, those ideas are not in The Bible. So of course I'm not the first to declare this point, nor should I be since I'm following the Scripture as written. The eary Church had this understanding too.
teleiosis said:
Five Times the Bible Presents Two Resurrections
There are four instances where two resurrections are mentioned in the Bible and a fifth that can be found in Jesus’ parables. The order of sequence is always the same; first for only the “Living,” then for both “Living and Dead.” The Bible can jump from one Resurrection to another in one-two fashion without mentioning the intervening time, as three of the four do, because of the nature of “gaps” in the Bible. The Resurrections represent the bookends of the Millennium. Jesus can go from one to the other and thus span a thousand years without mentioning them. An omission of a fact is not a commission of an error.
We've already been through your five examples. I've already shown where you're adding men's doctrines into them instead of keeping to all the Biblical evidences of what the resurrection is, with what type of body it comes, and at what point for the end it is to occur. All you're trying to do now is find another 'way' to try and make it fit the doctrines of men you've chosen to heed instead.
teleiosis said:
“Living” is used as Jesus uses the term here:
Mt 22:32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
Here, Jesus is speaking of people who have died, yet calls them “living.” “Living,” being capitalized, then refers to the spiritually living component of the Righteous. Using this analogy of life, much the Gospel accounts say Jesus is the “Son of the living God,” the corollary would be the “Dead” being synonymous with the Wicked. Thus, word interplay remains between the words: “living” and “dead,” which the reader will have to discern in Scripture such as can be found in Jn 5:25.
Why did our Lord Jesus use the idea of the blind scribes and Pharisees being likened to graves that appear not, and men that walk over them are not aware of them? Why did He say they were like whited sepulchres with dead men's bones in them? Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus that one must be born of The Spirit to enter into the Kingdom of God?
It's because of the condition of one's soul and spirit inside their flesh. Jesus used those examples about men living in the flesh that hadn't died yet. But does that condition of having a dead soul being without Christ also exist for those who have died? That's a big YES! And that's the part you're failing to understand in regards to the Rev.20 timing and the Rev.20:5 "dead" (and most likely the "spirits in prison" Scripture also).
ONLY TWO STATES:
1. One without Christ - their spirit inside their flesh is spiritually 'dead' - applies to all those without Christ, whether still alive on earth today or having already died. Those who have died without Christ are the "dead" of Rev.20:5; it's about the fallen condition of their spirit with soul.
2. One in Christ Jesus having been born again by The Spirit - their spirit is in a 'living' condition prepared to continue to eternal life through Christ Jesus after their flesh death and remain in Him. These can never... die, not subject to the "second death" ("second death" = the casting of one's spirit with soul into the later "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign.)
teleiosis said:
That the subsequent second Resurrection has any who are spiritually alive at all is due to the Millennium period. Some will live righteous lives during this period of Christ’s rule on the Earth over the nations. Those righteous people living and dying after the Rapture and during the future thousand year period require a second Resurrection where they can join the Elect.
Ezekiel 44 reveals the Zadok (the Just) priests will have the duty to teach God's people ("My people" as written there) the difference between the clean and the unclean, the holy and the profane. That will not be done for the purpose of their perishing in the lake of fire. That will be done in order to bring them to The Father's Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ, even in that future time. Only the Zadok priests will be of the "first resurrection". And if one is not of that "first resurrection" reigning with Christ during His thousand years, then they are still subject to the "second death" and are in a LIABLE TO PERISH condition, a condition of standing under judgment to the later lake of fire. Thus they are the "dead" of that time but only in the spiritual death sense. That is why those spiritually dead do not 'live' again until the thousand years are over, that idea being about many of those dead turning to Christ during that thousand years and thus saved.
There's only two different dimensions of existence in God's Word, this earthly one and the heavenly one. Paul made a distinction about that with telling us about two different body types, "the image of the earthy" and "the image of the heavenly", a body of corruption vs. a body of incorruption. It has been assumed by many brethren that the change to a "spiritual body", i.e., from a body of corruption to a body of incorruption, is only for those in Christ Jesus.
Since Paul was speaking to Christian brethren in the 1 Cor.15 chapter about that, he did not go into detail of what happens to the unjust on that "last trump" event. Yet he did... cover it indirectly when he said we ALL shall be changed, and then made a distinction in the Greek of 1 Cor.15:53-54 between the change from a body of corruption to incorruption, AND "this mortal" must "put on immortality", which is a second required change to have Eternal Life through Christ Jesus. Moreover, since Paul was pulling that 'death swallowed up in victory' passage directly from the Isaiah 25 chapter, it's simple to know that he was covering that Isaiah 25 event which DOES give more detail about that first part change also happening to the 'unjust' on that day also.
When our Lord Jesus comes with the "day of the Lord" events, all of man's works upon this earth are going to be consumed by God's consuming fire, which is what Peter was talking about in 2 Pet.3:10. That event will usher in the heavenly age of Christ's Milennium upon this earth. At that point all alive on earth will be changed to a body of incorruption, the wicked also. That is the resurrection body, a "spiritual body", not one of flesh. But their "this mortal" part will still be dead, spiritually dead, just LIKE those scribes and Pharisees our Lord Jesus pointed to with what was inside them being dead like a grave or tomb.
So in essence, all born in the flesh in this world have a spirit inside them that is spiritually dead until they come to The Father and believe on His Son Jesus Christ with their 'spirit' being born again, i.e., the "new creature" idea Paul taught. For those who do not come to Christ Jesus and believe on Him, their spirit REMAINS in a liable to die state, even after... Christ's coming and thousand years reign IF... they still refuse Him all the way to the end when God's great white throne judgment happens. What many misunderstand is that their liable to die condition is with their 'resurrection' state they will live in during Christ's thousand years. They will be alive in spiritual body, but still liable to die with their soul state, not yet perished. This reveals our Heavenly Father is indeed like Peter said; He is long-suffering, not willing for anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance (2 Pet.3:9).
teleiosis said:
The gap from one resurrection to the other returns this commentary to the tools of interpretation. The Bible allows for this transition because both are essentially the same, bracketing the Millennium and being bridged by the Rule of Christ. Their origin is from a speaker knowledgeable in God’s plan: Jesus. In Daniel, He is the Man in Linen, in the Gospels, Jesus speaks in the first person and in Revelation; He reveals it to John.
First Resurrection Just the Living
Second Resurrection Living and Dead
Daniel 12:1
But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered
Dan 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
________________________
Dan 12:1-2
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
(KJV)
Anyone can do a 'selective' reading of Scripture like you're trying to do. Notice that
"every one that shall be found written in the book" is part of the
"and at that time thy people shall be delivered."
Well, when are those books opened per Rev.20? At the end AFTER Christ's thousand years reign. Let's see, is that after Christ's second coming and end of the tribulation? Yes. So that Daniel passage has some major... timeline jumps in it that must be heeded.
The next Dan.12:2 verse is a direct parallel to the event of John 5:28-29 when Christ comes. At the sound of His voice with the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation happening at the same time. The spiritually dead will be raised too at Christ's coming, but they will still be in a liable to perish condition all throughout Christ's thousand years reign.
teleiosis said:
Mt 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Mt 25:32-33; 46
All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
…Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
The event of Christ's coming per Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 covers the gathering of His faithful Church from both Heaven and from the earth, i.e., His elect that reign with Him for the thousand years.
The event of Matt.25 with the separation of the goats from the sheep is simply the same events as the separation shown in Rev.22:14-15 and Ezekiel 44, and Zech.14:16-19, and Rev.20:8-9 about the nations, and Matt.8:12, and Matt.22:13, which goes with Matt.25:30.
teleiosis said:
_________________________
John 5:25
I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
Why do you keep placing the John 5:25 verse on top of the John 5:28-29 Scripture as if they are the same event? They are not the same event, not even the same timing. Obviously, you don't believe our Lord Jesus during His resurrection went to preach The Gospel to the "spirits in prison" like Peter said (1 Pet.3 & 4).
teleiosis said:
_________________________
Revelation 7:9
After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:1; 4
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads… They follow the Lamb wherever he goes.
Like I've said before, the "great multitude" of Rev.7 represent saved Gentile believers, and they are standing near Christ during His Milennium, because of the events given with that happen during Christ's Milennium reign, which is also the SAME timing of those in Rev.14:4 (Israelites) and Rev.15:2-3 (Gentiles).
You should have included this one too, for it's the same timing as those...
Rev 5:8-10
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9
And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
(KJV)
That's the same "new song" they will sing per Rev.14:3 and the "song of Moses" and "the song of the Lamb" per Rev.15:3.
teleiosis said:
Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
It's the way you're looking at the Rev.20:5 verse. Your belief on the false 'dead in the ground' doctrine of men is what is causing you to misinterpret the meaning of those "dead" there in Rev.20:5. By that time of Rev.20, the ONLY death remaining is the "second death", which is the casting of one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. Per Isaiah 25, the covering cast over all nations will be removed for Christ's Milennium reign. It's the spiritually "dead" that His elect reign over.
An example???
Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold,
I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
(KJV)
You can't get anymore spiritually dead than those of the "synagogue of Satan" that follow the devil, except maybe the devil himself and his angels that perish with him.
So how is it there, that Christ is going to make those come to WORSHIP at the feet of His elect? and just WHEN will that occur?
It's in Ezekiel 44 for one, and here it is also...
Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that
every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up
from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
(KJV)
From "year to year" definitely is not about some resurrection of the dead at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign! It instead shows their having been resurrected at Christ's coming at the start of the thousand years. (See also Scripture like Isaiah 49:23 and Isaiah 60:14.)
The rest of your post is like some seminarian philosopher's final paper written in order to pass THEIR leaven doctrines, about as simple as mud.