Am I the only one on the planet who understands Romans 7?

[CadyandZoe]

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

John is praising those individuals who not only profess to adhere to the teachings of Jesus but also demonstrate them through their actions. It is easy to claim to be a follower of Jesus, but the true follower is the one who lives as Jesus did.

In order to comprehend John, it's important to understand that the Pharisees held a belief that the common people were "sinners". They deemed only those who followed the teachings of the Pharisees to be "righteous", while the rest of Israel were regarded as "sinners." This general interpretation of the term "sinner" is also present in Paul's letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 2:15-18 We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.​

In this passage, Paul argues that he and Peter were not considered "sinners" while seeking justification by faith in Jesus Christ. However, Paul later realized that he was actually a transgressor. According to John, the new definition of "righteous" and "sinner" comes from our relationship to Jesus Christ and his teachings. Those who live according to the commandments of Jesus are considered righteous, while those who do not follow his teachings are the true sinners.

In any case, the term "sinner" applies to the walk or the life of an individual. According to the Pharisees, the "sinner" is the one who does not walk according to Pharisaical teachings. According to John, the "sinner" is the one who does not walk according to the teachings of Jesus.

Paul's argument at the end of Romans 7 is not focused on the walk of the individual; Paul's argument is focused on the quiddity or the essential nature of the individual. In that context, Paul's talk is not concerned with what we do; his talk is concerned with who we are. Even those who are walking according to the Spirit and being led by the Spirit continue to have sin within them. Our lust and coveting are still with us.

We all have lust in our hearts. The essential question is what we do with that lust. The lust never goes away, but our lust can be channeled in righteous and acceptable ways. God gave me a way to manifest my lust for a woman through my marriage relationship with Zoe. Walking in the Spirit doesn't remove my lust; it informs how I deal with my lust.

Paul argues that our lust will be removed at the glorification of our bodies. Then we will be totally free of sin.

 

[Peterlag]

John is praising those individuals who not only profess to adhere to the teachings of Jesus but also demonstrate them through their actions. It is easy to claim to be a follower of Jesus, but the true follower is the one who lives as Jesus did.

In order to comprehend John, it's important to understand that the Pharisees held a belief that the common people were "sinners". They deemed only those who followed the teachings of the Pharisees to be "righteous", while the rest of Israel were regarded as "sinners." This general interpretation of the term "sinner" is also present in Paul's letter to the Galatians.

Galatians 2:15-18 We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.​

In this passage, Paul argues that he and Peter were not considered "sinners" while seeking justification by faith in Jesus Christ. However, Paul later realized that he was actually a transgressor. According to John, the new definition of "righteous" and "sinner" comes from our relationship to Jesus Christ and his teachings. Those who live according to the commandments of Jesus are considered righteous, while those who do not follow his teachings are the true sinners.

In any case, the term "sinner" applies to the walk or the life of an individual. According to the Pharisees, the "sinner" is the one who does not walk according to Pharisaical teachings. According to John, the "sinner" is the one who does not walk according to the teachings of Jesus.

Paul's argument at the end of Romans 7 is not focused on the walk of the individual; Paul's argument is focused on the quiddity or the essential nature of the individual. In that context, Paul's talk is not concerned with what we do; his talk is concerned with who we are. Even those who are walking according to the Spirit and being led by the Spirit continue to have sin within them. Our lust and coveting are still with us.

We all have lust in our hearts. The essential question is what we do with that lust. The lust never goes away, but our lust can be channeled in righteous and acceptable ways. God gave me a way to manifest my lust for a woman through my marriage relationship with Zoe. Walking in the Spirit doesn't remove my lust; it informs how I deal with my lust.

Paul argues that our lust will be removed at the glorification of our bodies. Then we will be totally free of sin.

The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It was never called the Lord's Day--first of the week.Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath.

Yes
Basically saying that everyday is the sabbath. The sabbath day is now a person, not a day.
But John is saying that he was "in the Spirit" on a day of the week.
You may have difficulty with that, but that is exactly how it reads.
I have no dog in that fight.
I do not need it to be or say what it does not.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I'm not a Jew and I'm not a Gentile.

Yes you are.
Paul clearly made the distinction.
You may not agree with the bible, but that is your choice.

 

[Cassandra]

Yes
Basically saying that everyday is the sabbath. The sabbath day is now a person, not a day.
But John is saying that he was "in the Spirit" on a day of the week.
You may have difficulty with that, but that is exactly how it reads.
I have no dog in that fight.
I do not need it to be or say what it does not.

The problem with that is that God has not said that--Jesus has not said that. The Sabbath is part of the 10 commandments which God wrote with his finger, not by the writings of Moses. Christ is creator as well, so the Sabbath is His--He blessed and Hallowed it as well as the Father.. He is Lord of it--He would have told us if He changed it. He taught us how to keep it. How you get that the Sabbath is a person is beyond me.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The problem with that is that God has not said that--Jesus has not said that. The Sabbath is part of the 10 commandments which God wrote with his finger, not by the writings of Moses. Christ is creator as well, so the Sabbath is His--He blessed and Hallowed it as well as the Father.. He is Lord of it--He would have told us if He changed it. He taught us how to keep it. How you get that the Sabbath is a person is beyond me.

It is a dynamic from Hebrews 3 and 4.
Jesus has become our sabboth day rest.
The sabboth is no longer a day for the christian.
But if you eliminate hebrews 3 and 4 your position could be plausable.
So yes Jesus did say that.
You can read it yourself.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes you are.
Paul clearly made the distinction.
You may not agree with the bible, but that is your choice.

Can I have the Scripture that says I'm a Jew or a Gentile?

 

[CadyandZoe]

The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

I take issue with your position that the Spirit of Christ determines our intent. That isn't true. According to the Bible, the Spirit provides us with knowledge, wisdom and insight. To walk in the Spirit is to walk according to the knowledge, wisdom and insight provided by the Spirit.

I also take issue with your view that since you have the Spirit of Christ, it is impossible for you to covet or have lust. Those who have the Spirit of Christ are willing to deny themselves and seek to do the will of God.

And you don't yet seem to understand that walking according to the Spirit is WHAT we DO. Our lust is WHO we are. According to Paul if you are human, you have sin in your members.

You don't seem to understand yourself.

Consider what brother James said to his readers.

James 1:14-15 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Now, you might think that if James believed, as you do, that it is impossible to lust after the flesh while walking after the Spirit of Christ, James would have said that. Why wouldn't an apostle give his readers the key technique to avoid lust? The absence of advice concerning lust is highly suspect if James knew what you claim to know.

But James doesn't believe what you believe. James draws a straight line between lust and death.

Lust -->> Lust conceived -->> Sin -->> Death.

Those who walk according to the Spirit don't allow Lust to be conceived.

Lust --|||

So they don't act in sinful ways. BUT the Lust is still present. We will not be freed from Lust until we are granted glorification, which is to be freed from this body of death.

Those who walk according to the Spirit are not enticed by lust to commit sin, but the desire still remains.

 

[Peterlag]

I take issue with your position that the Spirit of Christ determines our intent. That isn't true. According to the Bible, the Spirit provides us with knowledge, wisdom and insight. To walk in the Spirit is to walk according to the knowledge, wisdom and insight provided by the Spirit.

I also take issue with your view that since you have the Spirit of Christ, it is impossible for you to covet or have lust. Those who have the Spirit of Christ are willing to deny themselves and seek to do the will of God.

And you don't yet seem to understand that walking according to the Spirit is WHAT we DO. Our lust is WHO we are. According to Paul if you are human, you have sin in your members.

You don't seem to understand yourself.

Consider what brother James said to his readers.

James 1:14-15 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Now, you might think that if James believed, as you do, that it is impossible to lust after the flesh while walking after the Spirit of Christ, James would have said that. Why wouldn't an apostle give his readers the key technique to avoid lust? The absence of advice concerning lust is highly suspect if James knew what you claim to know.

But James doesn't believe what you believe. James draws a straight line between lust and death.

Lust -->> Lust conceived -->> Sin -->> Death.

Those who walk according to the Spirit don't allow Lust to be conceived.

Lust --|||

So they don't act in sinful ways. BUT the Lust is still present. We will not be freed from Lust until we are granted glorification, which is to be freed from this body of death.

Those who walk according to the Spirit are not enticed by lust to commit sin, but the desire still remains

I am not lust or sin. I'm the righteousness of God in Christ. (In Christ means in the spirit)

2 Corinthians 5:21
...the righteousness of God in him.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

I am not drawn away of my own lust and enticed. I am in Christ and he in me.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I am not involved in sin that brings death. I'm involved with righteousness that brings forth life.

 

[Cassandra]

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he afterword speak of another day--which He didn't.
You need to reread Heb 4.


[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[10] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Looks like this chapter is talking about the rest of the 7th day that was made during Creation. Then we see what it say in verse 8. verse 9 says there remaineth a rest.

I'm showing you here what the Bible says. You can read as well as I.If you don't agree, no skin off my back.
Think we're done here.