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Antinomianism (faith without works): Where Cognitive Dissonance Lives

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    and the devil takes up occupancy in the nonbeliever only. there are no scriptures that point to possession in believers. if you dug your hole deeper you'd hit china
     
  2. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    you see there's a difference btwn a nonbelievers work vs a believers work. one is trying to enter the kingdom, the other is already in the kingdom, so their works will be evidence of crowns and rewards Jhn 3:3
     
  3. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    ye this one

    Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    but you another SDA trying to force his religion upon the innocent, and they can see.

    Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
    Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Please take a minute to read this carefully:

    The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant.

    “And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28

    “And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:

    “When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:

    “Now at the end of the forty days and nights the LORD presented me with the two stone tablets, the tablets of the covenant.” (Deuteronomy 9:11) (NET)

    “So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

    “There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

    “And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

    The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

    Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

    “It contained the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered entirely with gold. In this ark were the golden urn containing the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:4) (NET)


    Now, consider what Jeremiah says:

    “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. Please consider:

    “And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28

    “And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:

    “When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:

    “Now at the end of the forty days and nights the LORD presented me with the two stone tablets, the tablets of the covenant.” (Deuteronomy 9:11) (NET)

    “So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

    “There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

    “And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

    The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

    Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

    “It contained the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered entirely with gold. In this ark were the golden urn containing the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:4) (NET)


    Now, consider what Jeremiah says:

    “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33)
     
  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about "possession" which is accomplished by force? I'm talking about WILLFUL SURRENDER of a man's will to the will of God whereby the indwelling presence of God is manifested through the thoughts, words, and works of the believer, something OSAS people no nothing of.

    John 14:20
    "At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

    John 17:23
    "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one..."

    Romans 8:10
    "And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness."

    Galatians 2:20
    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVETH IN ME..."

    Ephesians 3:17
    "That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith..."

    Colossians 1:27
    "...which is Christ in you, the hope of glory..."

    1 John 3:24
    "And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him..."

    Revelation 3:20
    "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him..."
     
  7. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    and we surrender out of thankfulness to the cross, no t to save ourselves, something you can't know anything about until you become born again
     
  8. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Before you go bashing that other religion about how bad it is, i would take note of this,

    Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    Mat_7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    Mat_7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    because right now your religion with all its hypocrisy is killing you too,

    just find one spot in the bible where Jesus or the disciples said, Hi gentiles now you to are under the law" but I can show you this bit

    Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

    because the law was never ever ever given to the gentiles, we came complete under grace, you are just another religious Zealot destroying Gods people with your lies, and we have enough of them around.
     
  9. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you OSAS antimomianists cannot match wits with those of us who speak Bible truth, so in desperation you shift the debate from "Christian obligation" to "Christian origination".

    OK, let's play your game: A Christian originates when a person surrenders his heart to Jesus as his Lord and Savior, by grace through faith, not of any works.

    OK, can we get back to talking about where you OSAS people go wrong?
     
  10. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Calling good "evil" and evil "good" again. You're a fulfillment of prophecy.
     
  11. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you antinomianists get it all wrong. Non-believers cannot keep God's law even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7). The works of the righteous are not their own - they are those of the indwelling Christ and are the outward evidence of the inward re-birth. To exclude works as evidence of conversion is a doctrine of devils, for God gives His spirit "to them that obey Him" (Acts 5:32) - and "he that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."

    If only you OSAS folks would stop treating the Bible as a buffet table and start feasting on "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", you would obtain spiritual enligntenment instead of compounded delusion.
     
  12. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    You missed this one: "If ye love Me, keep MY commandments." John 14:15.

    Since you admitted to everyone here that you don't bother to concern yourself with Jesus' commandments, your "love" is proved to be nothing more than "saccharine sentimentalism" - useless to both God and man.
     
  13. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    I can't accept that "the Ten Commandment law is the OC" until it can be shown that Christians "establish the law Old Covenant" (Romans 3:31KJV), which is impossible since this same Paul says the OC is passed away out of existence (Hebrews 8:13).
     
  14. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    I can't accept that "the Ten Commandment law is the OC" until it can be shown that Christians "establish the law Old Covenant" (Romans 3:31KJV), which is impossible since this same Paul says the OC is passed away out of existence (Hebrews 8:13).
     
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    His commandment

    Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    the others came by Moses to the Hebrews, Israelites, and it does to you what it does to them teaches them like you that you are a sinner and under the law and not grace, you mock Him everyday with your works, and lay stumbling blocks before Gods children as all religious men do and for that you will have to answer.

    and your religion is better than theres how??? you come here to enforce your religions rules upon the lambs of God keeping them from Christ.

    this part

    Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

    but for you

    Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    if you dont want heaven fine, leave Gods children out of it.
     
  16. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said the Sabbath was made for "man" which is the Greek "anthropos" which means "mankind". "M-A-N" is a strange way to spell "Jew".
     
  17. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    And God rested from His works dont see you resting from anything...

    Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    unbelief.. you dont believe in the finished works of Christ. A christian trying to be a Jew..... mixing teh old and teh new

    Luk_5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
    Luk_5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
    Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.


    get understanding you need it, and stop putting your religion before God.
     
  18. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    christian obligation is result of thankfulness to the cross, christian origination is result of belief on the cross.

    well, works didn't save us, and works can't keep us. oits only coming to terms with the revelation that He died for past present and future sins and nothing we can do or not do can alter that
     
    mjrhealth likes this.
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Love fulfills the Law thereby establishing it as an eternal axiom. But the Ten Commandments were not the eternal law. They forced wicked people to act as though they loved God and others under threat of death, while promising material gain for obedience.

    “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (KJV 1900)

    The Two Great Commandments naturally fulfill the Ten Commandments. But you cannot fulfill the two great commandments by keeping the Ten.
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Notice the Ten Commandments were temporal;

    ““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

    The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. They called it the "Ark of the Covenant" because it carried the Ten Commandments.

    But the Two Great Commandments are the eternal law written in every heart. We know how we would like to be treated. But only those who are born again have Spiritual power to do this. So the Two Great Commandments condemn all except believers, to Hell.

    Jesus said the Ten Commandments Hung from the Two Great Commandments. This was at a level wicked people could keep under threat of death for disobedience and promises of rewards for obedience. Sinners could keep the Ten Commandments for the wrong reasons, greed, fear etc. But they could not keep the Two Great Commandments based on love without first having the Holy Spirit through the new birth.

    The New Covenant replaced the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant).

    “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (KJV 1900)
     
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