Are Christians to forgive everyone or only those who repent?

[stunnedbygrace]

I thought these posts were EXCELLENT!!

Yes , Jesus said " Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

Well spotted @stunnedbygrace ...I have never seen this said before...as far as I can remember...these three posts together are "quite the sermon"

Selah.

I actually think we have heard it maybe, but maybe didn't really understand? Whoever's sins you forgive they stand forgiven, whoever's sins you retain, etc.

Also there is one that says about binding or losing in heaven and on earth.

I guess they are related...

 

[quietthinker]

Forgiveness comes with love. It is the natural outflowing of a generous principle. If one does not choose to forgive one has not seen the great love God has for them. If one chooses to justify their lack of love for their neighbour all the pious words are clanging brass and tinkling cymbals.

 

[Enoch111]

Also there is one that says about binding or losing in heaven and on earth.

This was applicable to the apostles, not every Christian. There are examples in the book of Acts to show how the apostles used this authority. Also in the epistles. Unless we keep things in context we will simply fall into confusion.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Forgiveness comes with love. It is the natural outflowing of a generous principle. If one does not choose to forgive one has not seen the great love God has for them. If one chooses to justify their lack of love for their neighbour all the pious words are clanging brass and tinkling cymbals.

That's the thing, I DONT want to justify my lack of love. I can admit its there.

 

[Nancy]

At least you're honest about it. You aren't lying and trying to appear holy or make others think you're a saint.

Over the last two days or so I think I've concluded that I'm just going to keep being honest. Like you said, just keep going to God with it. Its all I got too Nancy.

"Its all I got too Nancy." ❤❤
Well Jen, we are in good company because, if He is all we got, then we got everything we could ever need or want...

 

[amadeus]

Another good question would be is Gods love unconditional, or is it grounded in the effort of men?

God is unchanging! He loves what He loves and hates what He hates. He loves good things and He hates evil things.

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Rom 9:13 What was it about Jacob that he loved and about Esau that he hated?

He has spoken blessings and He has spoken curses. This is the unchanging Word of God. God does not watch to see if we do wrong or we do right so that He can take actions for us or against us. It is on us. Our activities, or the lack of activity on our part, invoke whatever God has already spoken, be it a blessing or a curse or some combination thereof.

If we are a mixture of things good and things evil. Will not God both love and hate us according to the measure of each part, the good and the evil of which we consist?

 

[Waiting on him]

He loves good things and He hates evil things.

He tells me to love my enemies, why would He command me to do what’s not in his nature?

 

[Waiting on him]

Pump the brakes..... what if God has no enemies what if He’s reconciled Himself with the entire of all creation, but some just never get the news. That would mean I have no enemies.
Takes two too tango.

 

[amadeus]

He tells me to love my enemies, why would He command me to do what’s not in his nature?

Because every person, even our worst enemies are not completely ... and if they were, how could we know it without a direct revelation from God? God can see all of every heart, but we cannot!

We, all of us, are born of woman with a little glimmer of Light, of good, that makes it possible for us to move forward to what God would call Life. Those who do not endure with Him to the end, lose even that little glimmer with which they began:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9 This verse is not speaking of the born again, but of every man born of woman!

But... if he gains nothing during his allotted time... that is he simply buries that bit a light, why should be surprised that even that is taken away:

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Matt 13:12

 

[Helen]

Pump the brakes..... what if God has no enemies what if He’s reconciled Himself with the entire of all creation, but some just never get the news. That would mean I have no enemies.
Takes two too tango.

Yay!! Agree!! A man after mine own heart.

Romans , 5:8 "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

 

[quietthinker]

That's the thing, I DONT want to justify my lack of love. I can admit its there.

Love is a choice by principle. Feelings are engaged at a later stage to the principle.
The connection or marriage between principle and feeling needs to be understood otherwise our heart is disconnected from our head.
Principle rules.....'father forgive them' he said at the critical moment....I'm persuaded he felt like shit with the weight of the worlds sins on his breaking heart.....yes, this needs to be understood or we flounder in the soup of uncontrollable feelings.

 

[Sabertooth]

When we forgive, WE get freed from bondage. That freedom is made available to the other person, too, but that doesn't guarantee that they will receive it.

I do not believe that forgiveness requires us to trust untrustworthy people. It just means that all current debts are canceled. Jesus wants us to be wise as serpents. And gentle as doves.

Leadership may have to deal with issues that impact the Church, but that isn't the same thing as personal unforgiveness.

 

[Soverign Grace]

My thoughts have been in this very place S.G. So, what to do when they refuse to even take credit for their wrongdoings? Even "The Church" would not hear it...the pastor (my old pastor) said, "you got one minute" as he quickly walked away from me and I cannot walk fast or I'd be on my face...he knows that so now there is hurt as well as anger I am dealing with. Even Christians can be blind to truth. Sad for sure. I have to put it on the back burner to simmer while God works in my own heart because I do not know where else to go or do...so I do ...nothing. Prayers yes, have gotten that far yet, it still pricks.

That's such a shame Nancy. I have experienced callousness in the church as well.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I think I have said it before, just as we will find the "God" we look for and expect to see, so will we find verses that say what we want them to say.

I grasp your overall point, yet how do you synthesize the two verses? Which do you follow?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Follow the example of Christ and Stephen while they suffered unjustly at the hands of evil men.

Yes but how do you personally handle issues - using one verse or the other?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Jesus taught us to pray that God will forgive our sins against Him as we forgive the sins others commit against us.

Matthew 6:9-13-
“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
‘Give us this day our daily bread.
‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

But when faced with an actual issue, which of the verses do you follow - forgive, or rebuke, and if he repent forgive him. This verse seems to imply that we only forgive if the wrongdoer repents.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Christ is the Judge, not us. We try to conduct ourselves in a disciple-like manner, teaching others to do the same. But Christ is the ultimate Judge of hearts, not us.

That's true but when faced with an actual issue, which of the verses do you follow - just forgive, or rebuke and if they repent, forgive?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Actually, SG, there is no command to forgive those who are not asking for it. We are commanded to forgive those who ask us to forgive them, yes, but God does not forgive those who do not ask for it, and neither are Christians commanded to. Now, that is NOT to say we hold on to any sort of grudge against anyone, ever. We are commanded to pray for those who curse us, persecute us, use us, insult us, and we are commanded to bless them, as Jesus taught. But when it comes to the act of forgiveness, it is actually an exchange between two people - a reconciling between two people - and that means that both parties have to be involved. If the other person does not want and is not asking for forgiveness, it essentially makes forgiveness impossible, because it is not a one-way street. Forgiveness is an act that requires a conscious and welcome exchange between two people who desire to reconcile with each other.

Hope that helped.

Yes that makes sense - it seems to be what the 2nd verse implies - yet the two verses seem to contradict each other.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Three was an offence against me several years ago, and it took me almost two years to forgive it, them. I was like the Baboon that reached into the mason jar to get a bit of food, and while holding on to the bit of food [offence] I could not get my hand out of the Jar. I had to let go of the offence [food] or never be free from the Jar!
Offence's will come, it is a promise, our Savior suffered through Many, yet He still laid down His Life for You/Us!

How do you determine when you are to just forgive and when you're to take reparative action - say if that person cheated you or harmed you in some way?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

But when faced with an actual issue, which of the verses do you follow - forgive, or rebuke, and if he repent forgive him. This verse seems to imply that we only forgive if the wrongdoer repents.

I take what Jesus said to mean that we ALWAYS forgive no matter what else we do. If there is any rebuking to do, we go to that person with a heart of forgiveness.