Calvinism is NOT a Cult!

[Mjh29]

Conscience - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online

Knowledge of good and evil Adam and Eve.

So, I'll ask a final time [and a yes or no answer will work just fine]

are you going to accept @Preacher4Truth 's challenge?

 

[Waiting on him]

If God already decided where everyone goes with no freewill involved there is nothing to discuss or debate.

I hope the intent here, is to gain a brother.

 

[farouk]

Is the word conscience used in the Old Testament scripture? I can’t seem to find it, maybe you could help? Thanks in advance for you help.

It can be said I suppose that in the Old Testament revelation was not as far advanced as in the New Testament so in a sense there was less Scripture to take into account. (Not that Old Testament Scripture is not very deep and searching.)

But some Bible students do speak about a period in the Old Testament as 'the dispensation of conscience'.

 

[farouk]

Looks like God owes everyone salvation. Obligated to give everyone a chance to save themselves by making a decision, then after they decide they get the reward, I mean gift of salvation.

Who wants an earthly judge who gives all criminals mercy and sets them free?

It this were so, it wouldn't be grace would it?

Salvation is on the basis of grace, not supposed "rights".

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It this were so, it wouldn't be grace would it?

Salvation is on the basis of grace, not supposed "rights".

Exactly brother!

 

[farouk]

Exactly brother!

"All of grace, yes, grace surpassing
Such a portion to bestow,
But the love, all knowledge passing
Grace has taught us now to know.

Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
Love that suffered on the tree,
Love that shares the bright tomorrow
With the loved ones, you and me."

 

[Enoch111]

All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit

This is a misrepresentation of predestination and the Gospel. God elects no one to salvation or damnation. Therefore the Gospel must go out to all, and all are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call,

This too is false. Only sinners who first repent and believe are regenerated, thus quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit.

Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come to Christ, and therefore can not be saved:

This is patently and BLATANTLY false. God does not hinder any one from being saved. Those who are not saved choose to disobey the Gospel.

Calvinism has corrupted the Gospel and is itself a false Gospel.

 

[Mjh29]

This is a misrepresentation of predestination and the Gospel. God elects no one to salvation or damnation. Therefore the Gospel must go out to all, and all are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

This too is false. Only sinners who first repent and believe are regenerated, thus quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit.

This is patently and BLATANTLY false. God does not hinder any one from being saved. Those who are not saved choose to disobey the Gospel.

Calvinism has corrupted the Gospel and is itself a false Gospel.

Oh really? Which one of these answers has any Scripture backing your claims?

 

[Mjh29]

Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28. 1 Sam 23:11-12 ; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. Eph 1:6, 12. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. 1 Pet 1:5. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19 Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.

These are a few of the verses from which each and every point you refuse were taken

 

[justbyfaith]

The little numbers at the bottom are bible verses;

Deut 6:4; 1 Cor 8:4, 6, Jer 10:10; 1 Thes 1:9., Job 11:7-9; 26:14. , John 4:24. , 1 Tim 1:17. , Deut 4:15-16; John 4:24 with Luke 24:39. , Acts 14:11, 15. , Mal 3:6; James 1:17., 1 Kings 8:27; Jer 23:23-24. , Psa 90:2; 1 Tim 1:17. , Psa 145:3. ,Gen 17:1; Rev 4:8. , Rom 16:27. , Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8. , Psa 115:3. , Exod 3:14. , Eph 1:11. , Prov 16:4; Rom 11:36. , 1 John 4:8, 16., Exod 34:6-7. , Heb 11:6. , Neh 9:32-33. , Psa 5:5-6. , Exod 34:7; Nahum 1:2-3.

Sometimes I feel like this is how people look at the verses we give in defense
: View attachment 5388[/QUOTE]
And "yvette nichole brown" is about all they really say.

Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.

 

[Mjh29]

Sometimes I feel like this is how people look at the verses we give in defense
: View attachment 5388

And "yvette nichole bronw" is about all they really say.

Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.[/QUOTE]


Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.

 

[justbyfaith]

All must enter through the gate, which is Jesus and his way. You cannot climb the fence into the fold your way.

Calvinism teaches that God pushes them through the gate; that they do not walk in of their own volition.

The Bible, on the other hand, says the following:

Psa 110:3, Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rev 3:20, Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Rev 22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

"There has to be free will" They say, before even reading. Then when they come to places like Romans 9 they try and squeeze it into the box of their own presuppositions.

"But.... but there is free will, so this Can't mean God chose!"

God did choose...according to foreknowledge of our choice to either receive or reject Him as Saviour and Lord. Calvinists need to take some scissors and cut Romans 10:9-13 out of their Bibles; because they have already effectively done this in their hearts...therefore they are condemned by Revelation 22:19.
.
.
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Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come to Christ, and therefore can not be saved:

Is this a true representation of Calvinism? because it is unbiblical:

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

In response to the quote directly above by @Mjh29, @Enoch111 wrote:

This is patently and BLATANTLY false. God does not hinder any one from being saved. Those who are not saved choose to disobey the Gospel.

I agree with you wholeheartedly brother. These people are in denial of basic scriptures on salvation; some of these scriptures they have even memorized and try to use to substantiate their own pov on other issues.

 

[Waiting on him]

And "yvette nichole bronw" is about all they really say.

Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.

Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.[/QUOTE]
It’s simple to see what’s being argued here. Gods glory vs mans glory. It’s impossible to be seen through self righteous prideful eyes.

 

[justbyfaith]

<quote justbyfaith:> And "yvette nichole bronw" is about all they really say.

Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.</quote>


Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.

These verses do not exactly say what you say they say. If they did, then we can with all good conscience cut Romans 10:9-13 out of our Bibles.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Calvinism teaches that God pushes them through the gate; that they do not walk in of their own volition.

The above is totally false, and we don't teach this. You don't know what you're talking about but that hasn't stopped you yet.

The Bible, on the other hand, says the following:

Psa 110:3, Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Good passage which contradicts your teaching. He makes his willing, as above, he even makes us lie down in green pastures, Psalm 23 (how dare him!!!!) and makes us willing and wanting to do his pleasure, Philippians 2:13 (how dare him!!!) and causes us to walk in his ways, Ezekiel 36:27 (how dare him!!!). No one comes to him willing on their own, it is all God's work, not our effort. But, you don't happen to believe that, you get some of the glory turning grace into another gospel.

God did choose...according to foreknowledge of our choice to either receive or reject Him as Saviour and Lord.

Nope, nothing in Scripture teaches this. If the above were true, salvation would be meritorious, not grace.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

These verses do not exactly say what you say they say. If they did, then we can with all good conscience cut Romans 10:9-13 out of our Bibles.

Utterly false. None call upon the LORD unless God does a work of regeneration.

 

[Mjh29]

Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.

It’s simple to see what’s being argued here. Gods glory vs mans glory. It’s impossible to be seen through self righteous prideful eyes.[/QUOTE]

I tried my best....

 

[Mjh29]

These verses do not exactly say what you say they say. If they did, then we can with all good conscience cut Romans 10:9-13 out of our Bibles.

See, this is why I just quote the verses and let you see what the Bible says. Because even if I do explain every single one, you will just find a way to deny what it teaches, claiming that Scripture contradicts Scripture. As I said earlier, the problem isn't the Bible. The problem i you coming at the Bible with this preconceived notion that "There is free will. There must be free will."

And rather than reading the Scriptures as a whole, you choose to try and squeeze your views into them to fit the "Free will" that doesn't even really exist.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It’s simple to see what’s being argued here. Gods glory vs mans glory. It’s impossible to be seen through self righteous prideful eyes.

I tried my best....
View attachment 5448[/QUOTE]
Lol! Funny thing, we believe in unconditional election, that God chooses based on nothing in man, good or bad, and are mocked for being "special" which is ignorant, non sequitur, and absurd.

On the other hand they teach God chose them because they came to him out of true love and chose him, but it's really all him and not due to anything they've done. Lol!!!

 

[Mjh29]

Classic case of people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

And then point and yell "Cult!" at those who refuse to indulge themselves in the same.