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Calvinism is NOT a Cult!

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Mjh29, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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  2. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I hope the intent here, is to gain a brother.
     
  3. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    It can be said I suppose that in the Old Testament revelation was not as far advanced as in the New Testament so in a sense there was less Scripture to take into account. (Not that Old Testament Scripture is not very deep and searching.)

    But some Bible students do speak about a period in the Old Testament as 'the dispensation of conscience'.
     
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  4. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    It this were so, it wouldn't be grace would it?

    Salvation is on the basis of grace, not supposed "rights".
     
  5. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly brother!
     
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  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    "All of grace, yes, grace surpassing
    Such a portion to bestow,
    But the love, all knowledge passing
    Grace has taught us now to know.

    Love that bore the stripes and sorrow,
    Love that suffered on the tree,
    Love that shares the bright tomorrow
    With the loved ones, you and me."
     
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  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This is a misrepresentation of predestination and the Gospel. God elects no one to salvation or damnation. Therefore the Gospel must go out to all, and all are commanded to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
    This too is false. Only sinners who first repent and believe are regenerated, thus quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit.
    This is patently and BLATANTLY false. God does not hinder any one from being saved. Those who are not saved choose to disobey the Gospel.

    Calvinism has corrupted the Gospel and is itself a false Gospel.
     
  8. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? Which one of these answers has any Scripture backing your claims?
     
  9. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Rom 9:15, 18; 11:33; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17. James 1:13, 17; 1 John 1:5. Prov 16:33; Mat 17:12; John 19:11; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28. 1 Sam 23:11-12 ; Mat 11:21, 23; Acts 15:18. Rom 9:11, 13, 16, 18. Mat 25:41; 1 Tim 5:21. Prov 16:4; Rom 9:22-23; Eph 1:5-6. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4, 9, 11; 1 Thes 5:9; 2 Tim 1:9. Rom 9:11, 13, 16; Eph 1:4, 9. Eph 1:6, 12. Eph 1:4-5; Eph 2:10; 2 Thes 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2. 1 Thes 5:9-10; Titus 2:14. Rom 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2 Thes 2:13. 1 Pet 1:5. John 6:64-65; 8:47; 10:26; 17:9; Rom 8:28-39; 1 John 2:19 Mat 11:25-26; Rom 9:17-18, 21-22; 2 Tim 2:19-20; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4.

    These are a few of the verses from which each and every point you refuse were taken
     
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  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I feel like this is how people look at the verses we give in defense
    : View attachment 5388 [/QUOTE]
    And "yvette nichole brown" is about all they really say.

    Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  11. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    And "yvette nichole bronw" is about all they really say.

    Anybody can list a string of verses; most people will not even look at them....some will take the reference itself as proof of the position even if the actual verse doesn't support the view. You need to go through each verse and explain how each verse supports your opinion. Set them before the eye of more public scrutiny.[/QUOTE]


    Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


    Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

    Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

    James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

    1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

    Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

    Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

    John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

    Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

    Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

    I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Calvinism teaches that God pushes them through the gate; that they do not walk in of their own volition.

    The Bible, on the other hand, says the following:

    Psa 110:3, Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    Jhn 1:12, But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Rev 3:20, Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    Rev 22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


    God did choose...according to foreknowledge of our choice to either receive or reject Him as Saviour and Lord. Calvinists need to take some scissors and cut Romans 10:9-13 out of their Bibles; because they have already effectively done this in their hearts...therefore they are condemned by Revelation 22:19.
    .
    .
    .
    Is this a true representation of Calvinism? because it is unbiblical:

    Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    In response to the quote directly above by @Mjh29, @Enoch111 wrote:

    I agree with you wholeheartedly brother. These people are in denial of basic scriptures on salvation; some of these scriptures they have even memorized and try to use to substantiate their own pov on other issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  13. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Romans 9:15 --> God has mercy on those whom He wants to have mercy, and does not on those whom He does not want to. Mercy is the Lords to dispense. He also hardens all whom he chooses to harden


    Ephesians 1:11 --> We are chosen in God, and are predestined, not according to anything God foresaw we would do, but according to what God saw would bring Himself the ultimate glory

    Hebrews 6:17 --> God chose whom He chose simply to show the immutability of His counsel, not based on foreseen faith

    James 1:13 --> God is not the one that makes man sin, and therefore does not condemn them to hell; their sins condemn them to hell.

    1 John 1:5 --> God is the light of men, and without Him we can only choose darkness

    Proverbs 16:33 --> If God controls all things, even the smallest measures such as lots and seeming change, much more does He control those whom will enter His kingdom in Heaven

    Matthew 17:12 --> Men did not know Jesus, even when he was before them in the flesh; much less can they know him now apart from the work of the holy spirit

    John 19:11 --> There is no power unless Jesus give it, especially the power to believe

    Acts 2:23 --> Jesus death and whom he would die for was based not on foreknown righteousness, but on the counsel of God.

    Acts 4:27-28 --> God knows and allows everything that will ever happen to happen, and this especially includes who is and isn't converted by the work of His Spirit.

    I could continue, but I'll let you try and deny these first before I waste my time.[/QUOTE]
    It’s simple to see what’s being argued here. Gods glory vs mans glory. It’s impossible to be seen through self righteous prideful eyes.
     
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  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    These verses do not exactly say what you say they say. If they did, then we can with all good conscience cut Romans 10:9-13 out of our Bibles.
     
  15. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    The above is totally false, and we don't teach this. You don't know what you're talking about but that hasn't stopped you yet.


    Good passage which contradicts your teaching. He makes his willing, as above, he even makes us lie down in green pastures, Psalm 23 (how dare him!!!!) and makes us willing and wanting to do his pleasure, Philippians 2:13 (how dare him!!!) and causes us to walk in his ways, Ezekiel 36:27 (how dare him!!!). No one comes to him willing on their own, it is all God's work, not our effort. But, you don't happen to believe that, you get some of the glory turning grace into another gospel.

    Nope, nothing in Scripture teaches this. If the above were true, salvation would be meritorious, not grace.
     
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  16. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    Utterly false. None call upon the LORD unless God does a work of regeneration.
     
  17. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    It’s simple to see what’s being argued here. Gods glory vs mans glory. It’s impossible to be seen through self righteous prideful eyes.[/QUOTE]

    I tried my best....
    Arminians 'choose' god face.jpg
     
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  18. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    See, this is why I just quote the verses and let you see what the Bible says. Because even if I do explain every single one, you will just find a way to deny what it teaches, claiming that Scripture contradicts Scripture. As I said earlier, the problem isn't the Bible. The problem i you coming at the Bible with this preconceived notion that "There is free will. There must be free will."

    And rather than reading the Scriptures as a whole, you choose to try and squeeze your views into them to fit the "Free will" that doesn't even really exist.
     
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  19. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    I tried my best....
    View attachment 5448 [/QUOTE]
    Lol! Funny thing, we believe in unconditional election, that God chooses based on nothing in man, good or bad, and are mocked for being "special" which is ignorant, non sequitur, and absurd.

    On the other hand they teach God chose them because they came to him out of true love and chose him, but it's really all him and not due to anything they've done. Lol!!!
     
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  20. Mjh29

    Mjh29 Well-Known Member

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    Classic case of people wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

    And then point and yell "Cult!" at those who refuse to indulge themselves in the same.
     
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