Does Scripture Endorse Being Derisive?

[Hidden In Him]

Greetings everyone. I find this a crucial question where online interaction between believers in Christ is concerned, so I wanted to open a formal thread to debate the question:

Does scripture endorse being derisive to one another? The word essentially means being disrespectful to them by using mockery and insults. I will hear both sides with fairness and let the best case win, rather than simply assuming anything from the outset (though I have my own opinion going in).

Important!: If you can, please post scriptures to support your position, as this will be the focus of this thread.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[Helen]

NO!

And when people I have challenge for their 'attitude' in posting, respond with the old stand by:- "Jesus did not pull and punches, he called them ...
1. Ye blind guides (Matt. 23:16).

2. Ye fools (Matt. 23:17).

3. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees…for ye are like whited supulchres…full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).

4. Ye serpents (Matt. 23:33).

5. Ye generation of vipers (Matt. 23:33).

6. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (Luke 11:44).

I always wonder how deluded they are, in believing that they are somehow equal with Jesus in seeing the hearts as He could!!!

Jesus was speaking to those who were not entering in themselves, and also hindering others from entering in. That is almost never the case on Christians forums. ( maybe sometimes, maybe for a short while, but we soon get their number!!)

On Christian forums it is not common to see people trying to mislead or hinder others.
Different doctrines yes, but not out to deceive..and doing the devils work.

The word that comes to me is of Paul. Col 4:6-
6 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. "

In my book, people who are harsh, rude and uncaring are showing the whole forum how ignorant they are ...and how un-broken they are...and how that it is so obvious that they have never seen the heart of Father God.
They have an angry God...a God of their own making, to justify their lousy attitude to other.

It is actually pretty sad..because they show themselves up for how unspiritual they really are. And that they obviously do not spend much time 'one to one' with Father.

Those who do...reflect it. Re Peter and John, it says " they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." Can that be said of us?

 

[Hidden In Him]

The word that comes to me is of Paul. Col 4:6-
6 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. "

Wonderful verse. And thanks for the full response, sister. I may respond in full later, but for now I'd like some more participants, since I know many take positions on the issue both favorable and unfavorable.

@Enoch111, @OzSpen, @Frank Lee, @amadeus, @lforrest (especially), @emekrus, @GodsGrace, @Heart2Soul, @Triumph1300, @epostle1, @Rollo Tamasi, @brakelite, @Harvest 1874, @quietthinker, @TheHolyBookEnds, @Naomi25, @Dcopymope, I'd like your inputs here as well if possible. Also invited to share, despite taking what I suspect might be the contrarian position to mine (since they have taken it in the past): @Phoneman777, @Stranger, possibly others. I want an honest and open debate.

Whoever might have been missed or forgotten by accident, please forgive me.
Hidden

 

[lforrest]

NO!

And when people I have challenge for their 'attitude' in posting, respond with the old stand by:- "Jesus did not pull and punches, he called them ...
1. Ye blind guides (Matt. 23:16).

2. Ye fools (Matt. 23:17).

3. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees…for ye are like whited supulchres…full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).

4. Ye serpents (Matt. 23:33).

5. Ye generation of vipers (Matt. 23:33).

6. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (Luke 11:44).

I always wonder how deluded they are, in believing that they are somehow equal with Jesus in seeing the hearts as He could!!!

Jesus was speaking to those who were not entering in themselves, and also hindering others from entering in. That is almost never the case on Christians forums. ( maybe sometimes, maybe for a short while, but we soon get their number!!)

On Christian forums it is not common to see people trying to mislead or hinder others.
Different doctrines yes, but not out to deceive..and doing the devils work.

The word that comes to me is of Paul. Col 4:6-
6 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. "

In my book, people who are harsh, rude and uncaring are showing the whole forum how ignorant they are ...and how un-broken they are...and how that it is so obvious that they have never seen the heart of Father God.
They have an angry God...a God of their own making, to justify their lousy attitude to other.

It is actually pretty sad..because they show themselves up for how unspiritual they really are. And that they obviously do not spend much time 'one to one' with Father.

Those who do...reflect it. Re Peter and John, it says " they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." Can that be said of us?

Jesus is very protective of his sheep and will get angry at those attempting to harm them. Even when done in ignorance he will have a sharp rebuke ready for them.

I think as Christians we need to have the same heart. If this means harsh words are needed, so be it.

That said, this happens rarely. Certainly not in debates over disputable doctrines.

 

[GodsGrace]

I like civility. I try to consider other people's feelings. There's no reason why we cannot be nice to each other and not be able to rise to behaving the way Jesus would want us to act. I agree with @"ByGrace" ... no one here is Jesus.

This is how Jesus would like us to act:
Mathew 5:3-10

I guess we could stray from this every now and then, but it should be very rare.
Sometimes disagreeing about doctrine might seem to separate two persons. I like some on this forum that I don't even agree with on everything...I think we should love each other as Jesus said:

John 13:35
"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

This should be one of the things that make us different from the world.

 

[Philip James]

I think as Christians we need to have the same heart. If this means harsh words are needed, so be it.

I would agree that sometimes harsh words may be warrented, however:

isrespectful to them by using mockery and insults

Mockery is never right...

Psalms 1:1

Happy those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked, Nor go the way of sinners, nor sit in company with scoffers.

Insults though are hard to quantify... Some people will find the truth insulting..

Peace!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Psalms 1:1

Happy those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked, Nor go the way of sinners, nor sit in company with scoffers.

Insults though are hard to quantify... Some people will find the truth insulting..

Very good verse, and one of my favorite responses so far.
But now, I think the question needs to be restricted to speaker's intent, not how it is perceived. People misread others all the time, and to leave it the hands of those who perceive things as insults would be to render all Christians mute, LoL.

Thanks for the response, especially since I forgot to tag you (Doh!)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jesus is very protective of his sheep and will get angry at those attempting to harm them. Even when done in ignorance he will have a sharp rebuke ready for them.

I think as Christians we need to have the same heart. If this means harsh words are needed, so be it.

That said, this happens rarely. Certainly not in debates over disputable doctrines.

Ok. Interesting response, and I agree with it in principle.

I brought up intent in the post above. Do you think it can be justified if done with deliberate intent to insult & deride, or no? If so what would you say is the scriptural justification for doing so? Not wanting to put you on the spot. Just wanting to pick your brain on it. I think your opinion may be most important of all here.

 

[Helen]

Whoever might have been missed or forgotten by accident, please forgive me.
Hidden

@BreadOfLife @bbyrd009 @FHII @101G @aspen @Nancy @APAK @Willie T @VictoryinJesus

 

[aspen]

Greetings everyone. I find this a crucial question where online interaction between believers in Christ is concerned, so I wanted to open a formal thread to debate the question:

Does scripture endorse being derisive to one another? The word essentially means being disrespectful to them by using mockery and insults. I will hear both sides with fairness and let the best case win, rather than simply assuming anything from the outset (though I have my own opinion going in).

Important!: If you can, please post scriptures to support your position, as this will be the focus of this thread.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

I’ve started threads asking the same question. It still mystifies me that churches confuse arrogance in the pulpit with zeal or assertiveness. Arrogance and even bullying are not only tolerated, they are coveted in leadership within certain Christian circles. The attraction of white evangelical males to Trump is no mystery if you have been apart of churches with arrogant pastors and they are a dime a dozen.

1 Corinthians 13 describes love - Jesus tells us to love our neighbor. Loving our neighbor means meeting needs through service. It does not mean correcting, judging, bullying, mocking, scoffing (condemned in Psalms), or demanding Christian behavior from nonChristians (who then, turn around and moan about the constraints of PC language)

 

[aspen]

Jesus is very protective of his sheep and will get angry at those attempting to harm them. Even when done in ignorance he will have a sharp rebuke ready for them.

I think as Christians we need to have the same heart. If this means harsh words are needed, so be it.

That said, this happens rarely. Certainly not in debates over disputable doctrines.

But, the language of the heart is love, not harsh words. And why do nonbelievers have to conform to Conservative Christian standards?

 

[Hidden In Him]

@BreadOfLife @bbyrd009 @FHII @101G @aspen @Nancy @APAK @Willie T @VictoryinJesus

Oh, Heavens! Look at all the people I forgot!! Shame on Hidden, LoL.

Thanks again, sister. Not everyone may want to respond, but I don't believe I've seen this done anywhere (a call for a full-participation debate), and with a good tight-knit community like ours, I think it's the perfect place.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I’ve started threads asking the same question. It still mystifies me that churches confuse arrogance in the pulpit with zeal or assertiveness. Arrogance and even bullying are not only tolerated, they are coveted in leadership within certain Christian circles. The attraction of white evangelical males to Trump is no mystery if you have been apart of churches with arrogant pastors and they are a dime a dozen.

I would have to say I believe you, in that such things are indeed probably out there. I do recall @Willie T posting a video (think it was him) where this pastor just WENT OFF on his congregation. Everyone has a bad day, so it might have been understandable if there was repentance afterwards, but it was pretty rough to watch. Again, I don't want to sign off on there being a ton of it out there, as I have not seen it personally. I just see a lot of bad preaching mostly. But I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it out of hand either.

Some quotes might be interesting (if you can leave the author's names off to avoid offending what might be followers here), but that's just a suggestion. Only if it added to the discussion, as a case in point of what we are NOT supposed to do as believers.

 

[FHII]

Don't have time for a lengthy response but I lake Bygraces answer.

Here's a couple of more scriptures to consider:

Proverbs 15:1-2 KJV
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. [2] The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.

 

[Nancy]

NO!

And when people I have challenge for their 'attitude' in posting, respond with the old stand by:- "Jesus did not pull and punches, he called them ...
1. Ye blind guides (Matt. 23:16).

2. Ye fools (Matt. 23:17).

3. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees…for ye are like whited supulchres…full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness (Matt. 23:27).

4. Ye serpents (Matt. 23:33).

5. Ye generation of vipers (Matt. 23:33).

6. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (Luke 11:44).

I always wonder how deluded they are, in believing that they are somehow equal with Jesus in seeing the hearts as He could!!!

Jesus was speaking to those who were not entering in themselves, and also hindering others from entering in. That is almost never the case on Christians forums. ( maybe sometimes, maybe for a short while, but we soon get their number!!)

On Christian forums it is not common to see people trying to mislead or hinder others.
Different doctrines yes, but not out to deceive..and doing the devils work.

The word that comes to me is of Paul. Col 4:6-
6 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. "

In my book, people who are harsh, rude and uncaring are showing the whole forum how ignorant they are ...and how un-broken they are...and how that it is so obvious that they have never seen the heart of Father God.
They have an angry God...a God of their own making, to justify their lousy attitude to other.

It is actually pretty sad..because they show themselves up for how unspiritual they really are. And that they obviously do not spend much time 'one to one' with Father.

Those who do...reflect it. Re Peter and John, it says " they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." Can that be said of us?

"In my book, people who are harsh, rude and uncaring are showing the whole forum how ignorant they are ...and how un-broken they are...and how that it is so obvious that they have never seen the heart of Father God.
They have an angry God...a God of their own making, to justify their lousy attitude to other.

It is actually pretty sad..because they show themselves up for how unspiritual they really are. And that they obviously do not spend much time 'one to one' with Father. " SPOT ON SISTER!

 

[Nancy]

I like civility. I try to consider other people's feelings. There's no reason why we cannot be nice to each other and not be able to rise to behaving the way Jesus would want us to act. I agree with @"ByGrace" ... no one here is Jesus.

This is how Jesus would like us to act:
Mathew 5:3-10

I guess we could stray from this every now and then, but it should be very rare.
Sometimes disagreeing about doctrine might seem to separate two persons. I like some on this forum that I don't even agree with on everything...I think we should love each other as Jesus said:

John 13:35
"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

This should be one of the things that make us different from the world.

Very well said! You have a kind and gentle spirit Sister!

 

[amadeus]

When is it that we are supposed to laugh at others or at ourselves? Can this laughing be of a mocking sort? Should it ever be?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"...a time to laugh..." Ecc 3:4

"The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalm 2:2-4

"The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming." Psalm 37:12-13

So then if we are to be like Him, will it ever be our place to laugh the wicked plotter?

Who are these wicked plotters and when can we do unto them as God is to do onto them with a mocking laughter because of their wicked foolishness?

I see two things. One is that to laugh as the Lord laughs we would need to be a lot like Him. Then again to laugh at the wicked plotter, would we not have to know that that is what God wants us to do at the time we choose to do it?

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt 7:2

Here I will quote myself in something I wrote several years ago:

People laugh at people. Laughing at others of course can cause pain, but laughing at ourselves is often one of the best things we can do for the benefit of others and for ourselves.

The scripture says, "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes..." [Prov 21:2], but it also says; "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" [Rom 3:23]

God laughs at the foolish efforts of vain men, ["He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." Psalms 2:4].

"Every man" and "all" include those with the title “Doctor” in front of their names and the greatest of football heroes on the field and the lowest bums on the street. We all believe we are right and we all have sinned, but the scripture also says “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect” [Matt 5:48]. Before we can become perfect like Him we must follow His lead. Jesus tells us to come to Him as a little child and to take the lowest place at the table. If we are to be elevated let it be the Master that elevates us rather than our own presumption or pride. Come to Him as a child, feeble, weak, foolish and inept. Recognize that on our own we do not deserve even the lowest place at His table. Our own best efforts are simply filthy rags compared to Him. Before He will take us higher, we need to recognize how low we really are when we are on our own… We should be able to either laugh and/or cry about our own shortcomings.

Jesus overcame the world of His flesh and with His help so can we. To rise to the top, we must always start at the bottom. First comes cleaning out the garbage and then comes the refilling of the vessel with the good things of God.

As a young man, I was seldom able to laugh at my own shortcomings because I believed that most everybody was laughing at them already [silently if not out loud]. Of course that was never true, but I did not recognize it at the time... The truth is that most people are too involved in themselves to really care about me or anyone else. We all begin, as very selfish creatures in order to preserve natural life before we are able understand what is happening. It is a long trip from nearly perfect selfishness to perfect selflessness!

Can I laugh at myself yet?

Sometimes!

Until I am really able to laugh at myself without hesitation when I recognize my own foolishness before God, how can I be correct in laughing derisively at someone else? God did not laugh at Himself. He laughed that those who were less than Him but presumed too much taking too much on themselves. When we are sure we are so like Him and that others are really less than we are then maybe we can laugh away at others. I don't think I am ready for that and you...? Will I ever be? God knows!

 

[lforrest]

But, the language of the heart is love, not harsh words. And why do nonbelievers have to conform to Conservative Christian standards?

You can be harsh out of love, this is discipline. But the world responds with anger, so it isn't productive to be harsh towards nonbelievers.

 

[Frank Lee]

This is my favorite-est scripture regarding our speech and manner thereof...

Titus 2:8 KJVS
Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Berean study Bible Titus 2:8
and wholesome speech that is above reproach, so that anyone who opposes us will be ashamed to have nothing bad to say about us.

NAS Titus 2:8
sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.

The problem comes when your opponent is so dull that they don't realize they've nothing more to add and are only shadow boxing.

Wisdom is knowing when to cease speaking while not allowing your peace to be disrupted. It takes a few drubbings before learning when to fold your tent and ease away before you peace is broached.

 

[lforrest]

Ok. Interesting response, and I agree with it in principle.

I brought up intent in the post above. Do you think it can be justified if done with deliberate intent to insult & deride, or no? If so what would you say is the scriptural justification for doing so? Not wanting to put you on the spot. Just wanting to pick your brain on it. I think your opinion may be most important of all here.

I think it is wrong to deliberately insult and deride. What is the purpose of it but to humiliate. I derive too much enjoyment from seeing the prideful humbled for it to be a good thing.

No scripture comes to mind, but I remember we should try not to be offensive.