Does Scripture Endorse Being Derisive?

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VictoryinJesus

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…for ye have need of patience....I was considering the patience of the Father as He steadfastly refused to intervene as His only Son was being abused, insulted, beaten, whipped, mocked, and nailed to the cross. What patience as He sat upon His throne of glory, with every angel in heaven waiting for a simple nod to fly to the rescue of their Master.

Can you not imagine those angels, with their toes on the borders of heaven, just itching to fly to their beloved Commander's rescue? Imagine Gabriel, as he paces the streets of the New Jerusalem, one eye on the throne waiting, longing for that nod, even the slightest indication or sign that he may be permitted to send forth his legions of angels to avenge the suffering of his Creator and Leader, and the other eye upon Jesus, with tears streaming down his face, love and anguish and confusion and amazement etched upon his face as he watches the scenes unfolding before the astonished universe.

What patience as Jesus hung in pain and shame and agony , with the sins of the world upon His shoulders, experiencing for the first time in eternity separation from His Father.

What pain and anguish and mental agony was the Father going through as He watched His Son being so abused. What depths of pain must He have known when His Son, His only Son cried out for Him and He could not answer? What held Him back from sending those angels to destroy those men? Those murderers who would dare even to touch the Prince of heaven. What was so important, that even the death of God’s Son must continue without interference, without intervention?

Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
Ps 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

What patience in the midst of suffering is the above in comparison with the merest slights we receive from each other?

Who are we that should be so offended at one another's humanness, that we must feel the need to respond in such a manner to destroy another's character to uphold our own ego, pride and dignity, yet in doing so destroy our own integrity, in comparison to the patience shown to us by God Himself when we abuse Him each day with our sin and weaknesses?

PS. It was far easier for me to write the above than put it into practice. God help us all to be patient and kind and gentle with one another at all times. Despite our differences. I believe our restraint reveals more about who we are than our forthrightness.

Great answer. Yes, it is easier to write than to live out. Hebrews 11:36-38
[36] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: [37] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; [38] (Of whom the world was not worth they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

1 Peter 3:16-17
[16] Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. [17] For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

2 Timothy 4:14-15
[14] Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: [15] Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
 
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bbyrd009

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to the rescue of their Master.

Can you not imagine those angels, with their toes on the borders of heaven, just itching to fly to their beloved Commander's rescue? Imagine Gabriel, as he paces the streets of the New Jerusalem, one eye on the throne waiting, longing for that nod, even the slightest indication or sign that he may be permitted to send forth his legions of angels to avenge the suffering of his Creator and Leader, and the other eye upon Jesus, with tears streaming down his face, love and anguish and confusion and amazement etched upon his face as he watches the scenes unfolding before the astonished universe.

What patience as Jesus hung in pain and shame and agony , with the sins of the world upon His shoulders, experiencing for the first time in eternity separation from His Father.

What pain and anguish and mental agony was the Father going through as He watched His Son being so abused
this pov will keep you from further truth imo; Christ went willingly, so the pain and anguish are ours; we just project them onto God
 
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Nancy

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this pov will keep you from further truth imo; Christ went willingly, so the pain and anguish are ours; we just project them onto God

Hmm...interesting POV @bbyrd009
I have often had the thought that- boy, God must really be angry at what WE put His son through...but, I also KNOW He is not ever angry with His children. I had always imagined Him being heartbroken though.
Blessings aplenty to you!
-nancy
 
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rockytopva

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If E = mc2 then one can divide and say that m = E/c2. Therefore all of creation came into existence with the Fathers great Energy and Light... In which there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2... The sun is E/c2 in the form of plasma... The Earth is cooled E/c2.
Mental E/c2... Our ability to think comes from E/c2
Spiritual E/c2... Energy (Warmth, Motivation, Love) / c2 (Faith, Hope, Charity, Joy)

so... Lets take the opposite of all that...

The opposite of m = E/c2 is n = z/d

Nothing (n) - That which outer space is made of between the celestial objects.
Absolute Zero (z) - The coldest it can get!
Darkness (d) - That which is devoid of light.

Natural z/d - Nothing! Space! Null and Void!
Mental z/d - Nothing!
Spiritual... z (Cold, Laziness, Apathy, Hate) / d (Fear, Despair, Greed, Sorrow).

It is my conviction that there are three spiritual extremes....

Spiritual light - Love, warmth, faith, hope, charity joy, goodness, peace
Spiritual darkness - Hate, cold, fear, depression, sorrow, greed, evil, war
The Flesh -; Ego, perversion, filth, witchcraft, anger, strife, divisions, mysticism... Where does that fit? It is neither light or darkness!

I have heard that the flesh and the devil are so akin that it is hard to discern between the two of them. There is a path I believe to perfect spiritual light, or Caritas (Latin for pure love)... Things that cannot be taught for virtue is not knowledge!

1. Hope - All things begin with a hope
2. Faith - Motivation is a child of faith and hope
3. Charis - Grace - A powerful neighbor of caritas
4. Dynamos - Greek for virtue and motivation
5. Eucharisteo - Much grace... Gratitude
6. Charisomai - Well favored - A lucky kind of feeling
7. Euchrestos - Greek for profitable
8. Chairo - Greek for cheer - "Cheerio mate!"
9. Chara - Greek for joy
10. Chrestotes - An 'Aunt Bee' kind of Goodness
11. Charisma - Heavenly Graciousness
12. Chrisma - Heavenly Anointing - The Holy Grail!

Being derisive fits the definition of spiritual cold. Which is the opposite of true spirituality.
 

Helen

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If E = mc2 then one can divide and say that m = E/c2. Therefore all of creation came into existence with the Fathers great Energy and Light... In which there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2... The sun is E/c2 in the form of plasma... The Earth is cooled E/c2.
Mental E/c2... Our ability to think comes from E/c2
Spiritual E/c2... Energy (Warmth, Motivation, Love) / c2 (Faith, Hope, Charity, Joy)

so... Lets take the opposite of all that...

The opposite of m = E/c2 is n = z/d

Nothing (n) - That which outer space is made of between the celestial objects.
Absolute Zero (z) - The coldest it can get!
Darkness (d) - That which is devoid of light.

Natural z/d - Nothing! Space! Null and Void!
Mental z/d - Nothing!
Spiritual... z (Cold, Laziness, Apathy, Hate) / d (Fear, Despair, Greed, Sorrow).

It is my conviction that there are three spiritual extremes....

Spiritual light - Love, warmth, faith, hope, charity joy, goodness, peace
Spiritual darkness - Hate, cold, fear, depression, sorrow, greed, evil, war
The Flesh -; Ego, perversion, filth, witchcraft, anger, strife, divisions, mysticism... Where does that fit? It is neither light or darkness!

I have heard that the flesh and the devil are so akin that it is hard to discern between the two of them. There is a path I believe to perfect spiritual light, or Caritas (Latin for pure love)... Things that cannot be taught for virtue is not knowledge!

1. Hope - All things begin with a hope
2. Faith - Motivation is a child of faith and hope
3. Charis - Grace - A powerful neighbor of caritas
4. Dynamos - Greek for virtue and motivation
5. Eucharisteo - Much grace... Gratitude
6. Charisomai - Well favored - A lucky kind of feeling
7. Euchrestos - Greek for profitable
8. Chairo - Greek for cheer - "Cheerio mate!"
9. Chara - Greek for joy
10. Chrestotes - An 'Aunt Bee' kind of Goodness
11. Charisma - Heavenly Graciousness
12. Chrisma - Heavenly Anointing - The Holy Grail!

Being derisive fits the definition of spiritual cold. Which is the opposite of true spirituality.

Well 80% probably 'went over my head'....but I like where you took it!! :D

Bless you Rocky
 
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BreadOfLife

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Greetings everyone. I find this a crucial question where online interaction between believers in Christ is concerned, so I wanted to open a formal thread to debate the question:

Does scripture endorse being derisive to one another? The word essentially means being disrespectful to them by using mockery and insults. I will hear both sides with fairness and let the best case win, rather than simply assuming anything from the outset (though I have my own opinion going in).

Important!: If you can, please post scriptures to support your position, as this will be the focus of this thread.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him
It is because of the following verse that I am even here on this forum:
Exod. 20:16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

If everybody could heed this ONE verse of Scripture regarding the Catholic Church - there would be NO need for my being here . . .
 

bbyrd009

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I had always imagined Him being heartbroken though.
sure, me too; i can def share the pov. God creating evil is more difficult for us to imagine. I say this bc words like "heartbroken" evoke other concepts to us, like maybe "remorse" or even "failure," that i doubt apply here.

The discussion of the travail of a woman in labor comes to mind, where all that is "forgotten?"
I was considering the patience of the Father as He steadfastly refused to intervene
so don't get me wrong ok, i like where you went with the post/conclusion, but this pov here is obv gonna clash with "I am willing."
Christ is the intervention of God, i'm sure you even agree.
experiencing for the first time in eternity separation from His Father.
no separation imo, and no confused or amazed elohim either. ...as We are One and "I'm off to get hung on a cross now; see you guys in a bit" paraphrased will reveal imo.

I persist here bc i see that you are going to (necessarily) end up @ "God needed Christ to die for your sins."
 
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Hidden In Him

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It is because of the following verse that I am even here on this forum:
Exod. 20:16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

If everybody could heed this ONE verse of Scripture regarding the Catholic Church - there would be NO need for my being here . . .

Ok, gotcha. Thanks for the response. Now in being here, do you feel scripture endorses being derisive or no?
 

bbyrd009

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LoL. Separate question. But if you start a thread for it, invite me and I'll be sure to respond. :cool:
imo they are fairly intertwined, we might consider the guileless one being derided but also being oblivious to it maybe; at least i think "derision" is fitting enough for the examples in mind,
noun
  1. contemptuous ridicule or mockery.

imo a prob here might be the we also deem other things derision even if no ridicule or mockery is intended; derision can also be a perception iow
 
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Hidden In Him

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Derisive? No.
Admonishing and exposing lies? Absolutely.

Alright. I'm in agreement with you.
The intent was to engage everyone in a scriptural debate, so the request was to cite scriptures for your position.
Any you'd wish to share?
 

Hidden In Him

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imo they are fairly intertwined, we might consider the guileless one being derided but also being oblivious to it maybe

Thanks for the response, bbyrd, and interesting perspective. But now, to repeat, I've been approaching this question from seeing a large number of people move in and out of Christian forums after getting addressed derisively, not wearing any armor, and simply leaving never to return. I do agree that we have to be strong emotionally - there are scriptures for it - but requiring all believers to be this strong so as to endure all things, no matter what their spiritual age, doesn't seem to fit with the principle that many are children in the faith and need to be treated more gently. There are other issues involved as well.

But if you could, what was your answer to the OP and/or Post #37? That would clear up a few things for me. Please cite a scripture or two in defense of your position if you could.
 
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aspen

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It is because of the following verse that I am even here on this forum:
Exod. 20:16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

If everybody could heed this ONE verse of Scripture regarding the Catholic Church - there would be NO need for my being here . . .

Oh the ego......stunning
 

Helen

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It is because of the following verse that I am even here on this forum:
Exod. 20:16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

If everybody could heed this ONE verse of Scripture regarding the Catholic Church - there would be NO need for my being here . . .

Is that why you don't often join in many other threads?
So you do not feel that just "giving and taking" of other thoughts in the scriptures is worth your time? :(

Aspen, Phillip, and epostle1 are here too and they post in other threads, often in threads that have nothing at all to do with Catholic or anti-Catholic, just interesting threads about neutral subjects.

So, what you are really saying is..if "Taken" and Stranger were not arguing with you...you would not be here?? :(

Wow...you must put a lot of weight on what they argue with you about then...I feel their arguments are pointless. But who am I.

Without them, how would you spend you time? :D

Bless you BOL ... Helen
 
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aspen

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sure, me too; i can def share the pov. God creating evil is more difficult for us to imagine. I say this bc words like "heartbroken" evoke other concepts to us, like maybe "remorse" or even "failure," that i doubt apply here.

The discussion of the travail of a woman in labor comes to mind, where all that is "forgotten?"

so don't get me wrong ok, i like where you went with the post/conclusion, but this pov here is obv gonna clash with "I am willing."
Christ is the intervention of God, i'm sure you even agree.

no separation imo, and no confused or amazed elohim either. ...as We are One and "I'm off to get hung on a cross now; see you guys in a bit" paraphrased will reveal imo.

I persist here bc i see that you are going to (necessarily) end up @ "God needed Christ to die for your sins."

Honestly, I do not thing God is heartbroken. Are you heartbroken when your dog follows his nature and urinates in the house? Mad, yes, but heartbroken? I guess it would break my heart if I expected him to act like a human being - but he is a dog.

Heartbreak is an ego thing - it is tied to expectations. God knows who we are - we are the party in the relationship that do not know who we really are. God is trying help us to look underneath the mask we wear and discover our true self
 
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epostle1

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Jesus is very protective of his sheep and will get angry at those attempting to harm them. Even when done in ignorance he will have a sharp rebuke ready for them.

I think as Christians we need to have the same heart. If this means harsh words are needed, so be it.

That said, this happens rarely. Certainly not in debates over disputable doctrines.
What would you do if someone called your mother a whore in front of you, her, and in public?
I'd break his nose if it were my mother, and be justified in doing so. Jesus is not a wimpy flower child from the 60's chanting mantras of peace and love. Look what He did to the Amalekites in 2000 BC., look what He did to Berlin in 1944.

Spot the fake verse:

AKJV
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be to you as an heathen man and a publican.

SDAV
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the Whore of Babylon: but if he neglect to hear the Whore of Babylon, let him be to you as an heathen man and a publican.

How about this one:
Matthew 16:18 You are Peter and upon this Rock I will build my Whore of Babylon.

I'm using hyperbole, but this kind of hatred never used to be allowed here. Nobody invites blasphemous heathens and publicans for dinner.
 
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