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It’s more than just a “fine point,” isn’t it?
“Love the Lord your God with all of your …” (Mark 12:30).
Identity is critical. Who exactly is this God whom Jesus confirms his followers must love?
A lot is riding on knowing who that God is.
Sorry about that. It was never my intention to drive you crazy.
Acronyms are common in all technical fields, including theology.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I think there are many reasons why “trinitarians” believe things about the Trinity which aren’t taught in trinitarianism - things which expressly are prohibited in trinitarian theology.
We must all take responsibility for whatever it is that we believe, but I place the lion’s share of the blame for this particular issue squarely on the shoulders of the trinitarian clergy.
TAHOT is a real and escalating phenomenon, as this survey documents, but it’s really nothing more than people saying they’re something which they’re not.
@Matthias
@ScottA
Monkey wrench...
I said God IS His Own God. Why? How so?
John 20:
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Heb 1:
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
[6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
What IS the Glory of God?
OT study reveals....Gods greatness, power, light IS His Glory.
NT study reveals....Gods power, light IS He WHOM God called;
The Lamb, The Lord, The Word, The Maker, The Quickening Spirit, The Bright Morning Star, The Light, The Wisdom, The Power, The Savior, The Son, The Christ, The KING, JESUS, O God.
OT & NT study reveals....;
Men ON Earth can SEE the Glory of God IN the BRIGHTNESS of the sky.
Men CAN NEVER POSSESS Gods Glory...
Men CAN POSSESS the REFLECTION of Gods GLORY upon & with them & IN them.
Rev 21:
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Gods GLORY IN a man, is a STRANGE MYSTERY...
God doesn’t, “GIVE” but does, “GIVE” His Glory to men.
HOW so?
God SHINES His Glory ... UPON men ....ie REFLECTIVE.
Gods Glory.................. ENTERS men ....GIVES men His Glory, BY He Being IN the man.
AND THAT.....God BEING WITH...Reflective...CAN COME AND GO.
AND THAT.....God BEING IN...IS PERMANENT...ONCE and FOREVER.
HOW / WHY IS God His OWN God?
Another STRANGE MYSTERY.
* All things ARE Possible WITH God...Yes? Yes
* ALL WHAT THINGS ARE Possible WITH God?
* ALL THINGS, ARE Possible WITH God...
According TO LIMITS of things GOD CAN NOT DO.
It is Gods OWN LIMITS, that makes God His OWN GOD.
God Himself IS SUBJECT to LIMITS.
God Himself CAN NOT DO ALL THINGS.
(Granted, God Himself...SET His OWN LIMITS...and MUST abide BY the LIMITS).
ANY HEAD, KING, LEADER, Supreme POWER, that HAS NO LIMITS, IS a DICTATOR. A DICTATOR can DO...without Limit...BOTH Good AND Evil.
God Himself; IS LIMITED TO ONLY GOOD.
(And FYI, Biden, sits under the Title of President, IS His OWN President, Limited BY the US Constitution, that HE SWORE under Oath TO abide by the Limit AS a sitter in the Office President. He LIED. He Promised TO PROTECT the LIBERTY of the Citizens. Yet sits as a DICTATOR, routinely, daily, threatening, oppressing, the LIBERTY of the Citizens, with a GRIN and calling it Good, when it is Not.
And FYI, Scripture expressly WARNS, BEWARE, of any who SAY Good, Which IS Wicked and Evil.)
@ScottA
Monkey wrench...
I said God IS His Own God. Why? How so?
John 20:
[17] Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Heb 1:
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
[6] And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
What IS the Glory of God?
OT study reveals....Gods greatness, power, light IS His Glory.
NT study reveals....Gods power, light IS He WHOM God called;
The Lamb, The Lord, The Word, The Maker, The Quickening Spirit, The Bright Morning Star, The Light, The Wisdom, The Power, The Savior, The Son, The Christ, The KING, JESUS, O God.
OT & NT study reveals....;
Men ON Earth can SEE the Glory of God IN the BRIGHTNESS of the sky.
Men CAN NEVER POSSESS Gods Glory...
Men CAN POSSESS the REFLECTION of Gods GLORY upon & with them & IN them.
Rev 21:
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Gods GLORY IN a man, is a STRANGE MYSTERY...
God doesn’t, “GIVE” but does, “GIVE” His Glory to men.
HOW so?
God SHINES His Glory ... UPON men ....ie REFLECTIVE.
Gods Glory.................. ENTERS men ....GIVES men His Glory, BY He Being IN the man.
AND THAT.....God BEING WITH...Reflective...CAN COME AND GO.
AND THAT.....God BEING IN...IS PERMANENT...ONCE and FOREVER.
HOW / WHY IS God His OWN God?
Another STRANGE MYSTERY.
* All things ARE Possible WITH God...Yes? Yes
* ALL WHAT THINGS ARE Possible WITH God?
* ALL THINGS, ARE Possible WITH God...
According TO LIMITS of things GOD CAN NOT DO.
It is Gods OWN LIMITS, that makes God His OWN GOD.
God Himself IS SUBJECT to LIMITS.
God Himself CAN NOT DO ALL THINGS.
(Granted, God Himself...SET His OWN LIMITS...and MUST abide BY the LIMITS).
ANY HEAD, KING, LEADER, Supreme POWER, that HAS NO LIMITS, IS a DICTATOR. A DICTATOR can DO...without Limit...BOTH Good AND Evil.
God Himself; IS LIMITED TO ONLY GOOD.
(And FYI, Biden, sits under the Title of President, IS His OWN President, Limited BY the US Constitution, that HE SWORE under Oath TO abide by the Limit AS a sitter in the Office President. He LIED. He Promised TO PROTECT the LIBERTY of the Citizens. Yet sits as a DICTATOR, routinely, daily, threatening, oppressing, the LIBERTY of the Citizens, with a GRIN and calling it Good, when it is Not.
And FYI, Scripture expressly WARNS, BEWARE, of any who SAY Good, Which IS Wicked and Evil.)
If one does not KNOW who God IS via the bit by bit Knowledge revealed in the thousands of teaching via the OT and NT...TURN to the BOOK...of EXPRESS POINT...REVEALINGS...
Revelations:
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Pay close attention to what it DOES NOT SAY.
It does NOT SAY; Lord and God and Almighty.
I love the Lord God Almighty, who IS HE...My God.....
The Knowledge; Given by the Word of God, given Jesus Christ, given His angel, given John, given me......that I Trust to Believe.
If one does not KNOW who God IS via the bit by bit Knowledge revealed in the thousands of teaching via the OT and NT...TURN to the BOOK...of EXPRESS POINT...REVEALINGS...
Revelations:
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Pay close attention to what it DOES NOT SAY.
It does NOT SAY; Lord and God and Almighty.
I love the Lord God Almighty, who IS HE...My God.....
The Knowledge; Given by the Word of God, given Jesus Christ, given His angel, given John, given me......that I Trust to Believe.
God is someone who gave the revelation to Jesus; not Jesus.
LOL...I know. Acronyms are a modern language unto themselves.
And, on the spot anyone can formulate an acronym, that is also an acronym that multiple other people have formulated for something entirely different.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
It's always been known that us and our is God and Jesus, when God is talking he is referring to Jesus Christ his Son and himself the Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth and everything in between.
Please notice that in Genesis 1:27 is say that "God proceeded to create...." "Create" is used three times. This is different than in Genesis 1:26 where the verb "make" is used. Compare Proverbs 8:22; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16. The "Trinity" doctrine states-in part-(paraphrased) that each "god head" are equal and eternal-without a beginning. Under any of the various definitions, how does one explain that Jesus is part of this doctrine or even equal to God Almighty?
TY. And I would say, My words are my thoughts. As well, Gods Word is Gods Thoughts. One is not separate from the other.
One God. His Thoughts, His Word, His Power, IS God.
Did you name “your” word “Matthias” for purpose of this forum? Or does everyone call you Matthias ?
God’s word, his thoughts (John 1:1-5) became incarnate (John 1:14).
Yes. It came about from an incident I had almost 20 years ago on an online discussion forum where I used my given name. A trinitarian member of the forum discovered the city I lived in at the time and publicly announced that he would meet me at a certain location in that city, on a date which we were to agree upon, to do me bodily harm. I turned the information over to the local police department. They advised me to set a date and then not show up at the location. I set the date, the trinitarian showed up, and the police arrested him.
No. On the last two forums I was on I used a variation (“Mattathias”).
Regarding ManKIND of thing...
Create is One thing... Establishing what DOES NOT EXIST, TO EXIST.
God Creates BY FORMING, what IS NOT, to BE what IS.
Gods ABILITY TO FORM, IS via HIS Supreme POWER (Spirit).
God Makes the FORMED thing to HAVE LIFE.
First manKIND of thing... God Created AND Made.
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became (was MADE LIVING) a living soul.
Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Him....WORD....Him CREATOR and MAKER...one Same God.
What NAME did God give manKIND, to CALL HIS “WORD”?
Matt 1:
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Rev 19:
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
What name did you give this Forum to CALL YOU?
@Mark51 ... Did your parents give you the name Mark51? Does everyone call your word, Mark51? Or only people on this forum?
Don’t you have a similar Likeness as God...that you can call YOUR WORD whatever you choose, on the DAY you chose, to join this forum?LIKE God did, on the Day He chose to SEND His Word to Earth, in a BODY God Prepared for His Word?
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Where DID Gods Word COME FROM? God tells us ...
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Where DID Jesus say He CAME FROM? Jesus tells us...
John 8:
[42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
point being...in the same Likeness as God can choose Names to call Him, so also can men.
And I would with confidence say, you are called by and answer to Many names and titles and descriptions...and so also does God Himself.
point being...in the same Likeness as God can choose Names to call Him, so also can men.
And I would with confidence say, you are called by and answer to Many names and titles and descriptions...and so also does God Himself.
What you and I have in common is the belief that God is one person. We don’t agree on who that one person is.
Sounds like another description would be more befitting to that guy, for that circumstance....like uh...”idiot”.
TY. Point, we have numerous names, titles, descriptions...so also does God.
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