We barely agree on using the term “person”...
But I get your drift.
No issue with me.
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We barely agree on using the term “person”...
But I get your drift.
No issue with me.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
In what context, in the world or in the kingdom of God?
Because that is the issue.
You could also ask what is Paul, a Pharisee or a Roman or a Christian, yet he also said he was all things to all people. And how foolish it would be to argue about it for 2,000 years, or even to say He is one and not the other. But here we are with many doing just that with God. And this is what they have been found doing.
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Just listen to Jesus and believe him. He tells us who his God and the God of his followers is. There is no other.
If people want to argue about it until Jesus returns, they will.
Point, we have numerous names, titles, descriptions...so also does God.
So also does the Messiah.
Yes, who is Jesus, who is the Lamb of God, who is Christ, who is the Savior, who is the Quickening Spirit, who is the Spirit of Truth, who is the Word of God, who is the Wisdom of God, who is the Seed of God, who is the Power of God....and more.
Jesus the Nazarene is the prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15, 18; Acts 3:22).
@Taken These are all Scriptural expressions which are variously seen in context.
I'm so struck how deeply present in Scripture is God in Three Persons....
Heb 1:
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2 Cor 2:
[10] To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
Jesus, The Way, The Truth, Life.
Jesus, The Christ. Spirit, Power, Wisdom, Seed.
Jesus, The Express Image, Likeness, IS: Body, Soul, Spirit of God.
The Big Picture is God Introducing (To Human Persons) With Names, Titles, Descriptions, the Whole of God, in a Fashion as it Applies to One Human Person.
A Human Person;
Who IS A Body, HAS A Soul, HAS A Spirit...
Who HAS multiple “Names, Titles, Descriptions”...which Applies to:
A Human mans Whole; Body, Soul, Spirit.
Difference IS:
God HAS A Body, HAS A Soul, IS A Spirit.
God HAS Named, Titled, Described: His Body, His Soul, His Spirit...
WITH........An ASSORTMENT of Different:, Names, Titles, Descriptions.
The Conundrum OF HUMAN PERSON(S)...
IS: IF and WHEN...
A Human Person; comes to the Understanding (or Not)...
God Himself IS Every Name, Title, Description, He APPLIES, TO His Body, His Soul, His Spirit.
The “TEACHING” of THREE, is an introduction to Gods KNOWLEDGE.
The “UNDERSTANDING” of Gods “KNOWLEDGE” IS:
God IS: ONE Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
For Humans.....No.
For God...........Yes.
Females deliver forth a babe and the babe called born.
The male dad, begets, when the babe is called born.
Mary was notified...the son she delivered, WOULD BE called;
The Son of God.
The DAY Jesus WOULD BE called the Son of God, was THE DAY, God in Heaven DECLARED Jesus “His Son”. (Age approx 30)
Humans have a Beginning and REPRODUCE offspring with a Beginning.
God has no Beginning and DECLARED His Son, with No Beginning.
Heb 13:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Acts 13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
John 1:
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he (God) hath declared him. (Son).
Glory to God,
Taken
Whereas you believe Jesus “IS” a human person.
I believe Jesus “IS” Spirit, and was revealed “TO” human persons, IN THE LIKENESS “AS” a human person.
1 Cor 15:
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Phil 2:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
We have the same scripture but a different interpretation.
Your interpretation is that Jesus isn’t a human person; that he only appeared to be a human person? How is that different from what the Gnostics believed?
I can not speak for men who tag themselves with the term “Gnostic”.
I believe your and my difference lands on difference in the meaning of ... “IS” and “AS”.
Scripture clearly teaches a terrestrial body called a man, (humans) “IS” Dust of the Earth.
Scripture clearly teaches a celestial body “which also can be called a man”, are NOT humans, are NOT terrestrials of Dust of the Earth....
BUT “IS” “spirits”.
Not for one second, do I believe Jesus “IS” Dust of the Earth.
What I see is that the order for all human persons is first natural, then spiritual.
I see this order as applicable to Jesus, truly a human person, which makes the issue that of preexistence - you holding to literal preexistence; me to the notional preexistence of Jewish monotheism.
This is a very important point.
Human beings are “dust of the earth”. If Jesus isn’t “dust of the earth” then Jesus isn’t a human being.
I believe Jesus is a human being; you don’t believe (“not for one second”) Jesus is a human being.
Literal preexistence is non-human being existence.
Notional preexistence is human being existence in the mind of God.
You have no clue in what you are proposing and saying here Farouk. How 'deeply present' in three persons indeed.
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