Grace is NOT unmerited favor!

[Nancy]

I agree wth what you are saying - that Father God has "taken the leash off the dog"...to see how well it will respond to His 'still, small, voice. '

I know what you are saying...
But I would never preach it , unless filling in all the blanks of explanation...
We are FREE to be bound to Him...as the love-slaves were to their Masters in the OT...at Jubilee...the refused to 'go out free' but wished to stay with their Master. Bound by love

Only a mature christian would fully understand this ...it's not for young babes...

"taken the leash off the dog"...to see how well it will respond to His 'still, small, voice."

I do think I will have to steal this saying Helen...so fitting to this discussion! We (Christians) should see ourselves as bond slaves to Christ. Since His burden is light and He asks simply for our obedience, which to me is talking about His "light burdens" ...maybe? At first, when coming into His Truth (becoming born again) shedding the old ways can be difficult, mostly because of not knowing Him well enough yet in their young walk, not yet understanding how to trust Him.

At first when reading the OP, I was like...okay, where's he going with this! Lol...then I realized he was writing figuratively, lol. And, yeah...probably not a bad idea to put in some more explanation for newbies.

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." 1 Corinthians 6:12

Good points my British sister!
xo

 

[complete]

For by grace are ye saved through faith;
.. and that not of yourselves:
.... it is the gift of God:
Not of works,
.. lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
.. created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
.... which God hath before ordained
...... that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @CharismaticLady,

The words describing the love of God towards us, is sufficient for me to know just what grace is:-

'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.'
(Romans 5:8)

* Now that is unmerited favour!

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CharismaticLady]

For by grace are ye saved through faith;
.. and that not of yourselves:
.... it is the gift of God:
Not of works,
.. lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
.. created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
.... which God hath before ordained
...... that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @CharismaticLady,

The words describing the love of God towards us, is sufficient for me to know just what grace is:-

'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.'
(Romans 5:8)

* Now that is unmerited favour!

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Coming to Christ, yes. But after coming to Christ are we still bound to the slavery of sin? Does grace then cover our sins while we keep committing them?

 

[complete]

Coming to Christ, yes. But after coming to Christ are we still bound to the slavery of sin? Does grace then cover our sins while we keep committing them?

Hello @CharismaticLady

That is not the issue though is it? The quality of God's grace is.

I think Paul answered your first question in Romans 6:1-7

'What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid.
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Coming to Christ, yes. But after coming to Christ are we still bound to the slavery of sin?
Does grace then cover our sins while we keep committing them?

Hello @CharismaticLady,

I now realise that I did not answer your second question (highlighted above).

* The answer to that question I believe is to be found in 1 John 1:6-8:-

'If we say that we have fellowship with Him,
.. and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light,
.. we have fellowship one with another,
.... and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin,
.. we deceive ourselves,
.... and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
.... and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
.. and His word is not in us.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hello @CharismaticLady,

I now realise that I did not answer your second question (highlighted above).

* The answer to that question I believe is to be found in 1 John 1:6-8:-

'If we say that we have fellowship with Him,
.. and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light,
.. we have fellowship one with another,
.... and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin,
.. we deceive ourselves,
.... and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins,
.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
.... and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
.. and His word is not in us.'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

How much unrighteousness is cleansed? Do you then remain a sinner?

 

[Nancy]

How much unrighteousness is cleansed? Do you then remain a sinner?

Hi CL,
I think Chris is getting at the fact that He cleanses us from "all" unrighteousness if we confess our sins. To me, we can fall at times, personally, I hate sin yet...there are times I can be negligent in prayer and study although, those are the things I want the most and, I find it being un faithful hence...a sin "to me". Also, there are times that I can get very frustrated and lash out in anger...not at a person though, lol but...over stupid things like not being able to find something, or I cannot get something to work because I threw it on the floor because of that stinking, horrid lashing out. I see" that as sin and as the sin that so "besets" me. And oh, do I pray for that to be taken once and for all yet...it will rear it's ugly, ugly head now and then.
I know we have talked about the sins to death and unto death and, still not totally understanding...sometimes I think I do then, I'm back to wondering! Arggh matey!!! lol.
Of course, we will let Chris answer for herself as, she's so much better at it, haha.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I agree wth what you are saying - that Father God has "taken the leash off the dog"...to see how well it will respond to His 'still, small, voice. '

I know what you are saying...
But I would never preach it , unless filling in all the blanks of explanation...
We are FREE to be bound to Him...as the love-slaves were to their Masters in the OT...at Jubilee...the refused to 'go out free' but wished to stay with their Master. Bound by love

Only a mature christian would fully understand this ...it's not for young babes...

......you May be on to something here.....one does not get to this point overnight.....yes..... Now that I am Free...the only thing I want to do is be His Slave.....Christianity is just FULL of ironies.....

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi CL,
I think Chris is getting at the fact that He cleanses us from "all" unrighteousness if we confess our sins. To me, we can fall at times, personally, I hate sin yet...there are times I can be negligent in prayer and study although, those are the things I want the most and, I find it being un faithful hence...a sin "to me". Also, there are times that I can get very frustrated and lash out in anger...not at a person though, lol but...over stupid things like not being able to find something, or I cannot get something to work because I threw it on the floor because of that stinking, horrid lashing out. I see" that as sin and as the sin that so "besets" me. And oh, do I pray for that to be taken once and for all yet...it will rear it's ugly, ugly head now and then.
I know we have talked about the sins to death and unto death and, still not totally understanding...sometimes I think I do then, I'm back to wondering! Arggh matey!!! lol.
Of course, we will let Chris answer for herself as, she's so much better at it, haha.

Those are trespasses, not sins of lawlessness. Is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian?

 

[Nancy]

Those are trespasses, not sins of lawlessness. Is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian?

"Is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian?"

And...this is what trips me up but, I do think young Christians maybe? And also...with my "issues" ...it must be God only that I trespass against as, there is nobody else there.

 

[justbyfaith]

If I am Foolish enough to try to take advantage of the Grace Of God, trying to turn God's Grace into a” license to Sin”, God will Chastise me BIG TIME

Not saying He will necessarily do this with you, as you seem to have a testimony...

But those who teach God's grace as a license for sin will not merely be chastised, as in disciplined temporarily.

But the Bible teaches that those who teach grace as a license for sin have had their condemnation marked out long ago (Jude 1:3-4).

That word "condemnation" refers to damnation in the lake of fire.

See James 3:1.

 

[complete]

How much unrighteousness is cleansed?
Do you then remain a sinner?

Hello @CharismaticLady,

* In answer to your first question is found in 1 John 1:6-8:-

'If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

* In 1 John 2:1 we are told:-

'My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:'

* In this chapter which speaks of our sin, we are reminded that God is still our Father. That relationship remains, it cannot be broken (Romans 8:35-39). We are His children, but we are sinful children. We are full of failure and infirmity, we are not 'in' sin, but sin is 'in' us. If we say that we have no sin, we lie, and the truth is not in us. I sin daily, whether I am aware of it or not, for even 'the very thought of foolishness is sin' (Proverbs 24:9): but our Advocate, in the person of Christ Jesus our risen Lord sees it, and He intercedes for us before the Father. We also have the Holy Spirit, who intercedes for us down here (Romans 8:27). This provision, is the outpouring of God's love and grace, without which we would have no hope. The work of Christ has set us in the light of God's presence (1 John 1:7); and the advocacy of Christ keeps us there, justified and cleansed. The work is finished and done. It is perfect. Nothing can be put to it, or taken from it. But, the advocacy of Christ is perpetual; and never finished until we shall be 'at home with the Lord' in risen bodies, made like Christ's own glorious body (Philippians 3:21)

* I have not had to think of these things for some time, and therefore I ask you to forgive me for taking so long to reply: and for what is an inadequate answer at best.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CharismaticLady]

"Is the person in 1 John 1:6 a Christian?"

And...this is what trips me up but, I do think young Christians maybe? And also...with my "issues" ...it must be God only that I trespass against as, there is nobody else there.

How we go to zero on trespasses is by never holding anything against another person. Forgive immediately.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hello @CharismaticLady,

* In answer to your first question is found in 1 John 1:6-8:-

'If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

* In 1 John 2:1 we are told:-

'My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:'

* In this chapter which speaks of our sin, we are reminded that God is still our Father. That relationship remains, it cannot be broken (Romans 8:35-39). We are His children, but we are sinful children. We are full of failure and infirmity, we are not 'in' sin, but sin is 'in' us. If we say that we have no sin, we lie, and the truth is not in us. I sin daily, whether I am aware of it or not, for even 'the very thought of foolishness is sin' (Proverbs 24:9): but our Advocate, in the person of Christ Jesus our risen Lord sees it, and He intercedes for us before the Father. We also have the Holy Spirit, who intercedes for us down here (Romans 8:27). This provision, is the outpouring of God's love and grace, without which we would have no hope. The work of Christ has set us in the light of God's presence (1 John 1:7); and the advocacy of Christ keeps us there, justified and cleansed. The work is finished and done. It is perfect. Nothing can be put to it, or taken from it. But, the advocacy of Christ is perpetual; and never finished until we shall be 'at home with the Lord' in risen bodies, made like Christ's own glorious body (Philippians 3:21)

* I have not had to think of these things for some time, and therefore I ask you to forgive me for taking so long to reply: and for what is an inadequate answer at best.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Let me ask you the same question I asked Nancy. Is 1 John 1:6 a Christian?

 

[justbyfaith]

Let me ask you the same question I asked Nancy. Is 1 John 1:6 a Christian?

There is confusion in this question.

So much so, that I cannot figure out how to explain your error.

You just have to consider that 1 John 1:6 and 1 John 1:8 are two different kinds of statements.

1 John 1:6 is speaking of someone who is claiming to be a Christian but isn't.

But 1 John 1:8 is speaking of all believers; that if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

There is just a slight difference in the statements that the devil is here trying to take advantage of; because it is miniscule and hardly noticeable.

You have to be intelligent to see it; and even more intelligent to explain it.

I think that I have the intelligence to see it but not the intelligence to be able to explain it.

So all I can do is pray that the Holy Ghost will help the reader to also see what I see.

 

[Joseph77]

You have to be intelligent to see it; and even more intelligent to explain it.

I think that I have the intelligence to see it but not the intelligence to be able to explain it.

How about if God Reveals the meaning clearly to you ?
He hides much from scholars remember, and reveals the truth to infants. (as written)

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is confusion in this question.

So much so, that I cannot figure out how to explain your error.

You just have to consider that 1 John 1:6 and 1 John 1:8 are two different kinds of statements.

1 John 1:6 is speaking of someone who is claiming to be a Christian but isn't.

But 1 John 1:8 is speaking of all believers; that if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

There is just a slight difference in the statements that the devil is here trying to take advantage of; because it is miniscule and hardly noticeable.

You have to be intelligent to see it; and even more intelligent to explain it.

I think that I have the intelligence to see it but not the intelligence to be able to explain it.

So all I can do is pray that the Holy Ghost will help the reader to also see what I see.

You are correct that 1 John 1:6 is NOT a Christian. But there are many who believe that all of 1 John 1 is speaking of Christians, including 6. Oy vey! It has been taught that way for centuries, and no one questions their false teachers. Actually, the key is verses 8 and 10 are not together, (why), though verse 9 would solve them both. This is a Hebrew style of writing called contrasts. Light vs. Darkness. As it works out the odd numbered verses are Light, starting with vs. 5, 7 and 9; and the even numbered verses are ALL darkness, those who still have sin due to never repenting (vs. 9). Chapter 3 completely contradicts vs. 6, 8 and 10 of 1 John 1. Those who read past the first chapter seeking truth rather than a justification of the sin in their lives, will see that none of those depicted in 6, 8 and 10 are Christians. There is no truth of the Spirit in them. Romans 8:9 Without the Spirit of Light, they will be in darkness and not recognize their sin, and they still need to repent and be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness, taking them out of the category of sinner, and into the category of child of God. 1 John 3:1. A true Christian is not a sinner, thus not 1 John 1:8 or 10.

You see they know that Christians are free from sin, so if a sinner says they have no sin, they are a liar.

 

[justbyfaith]

How about if God Reveals the meaning clearly to you ?
He hides much from scholars remember, and reveals the truth to infants. (as written)

The thing in question is so subtle that I can't figure out how to put the refutation into words.

I tried, and failed.

 

[Joseph77]

The thing in question is so subtle that I can't figure out how to put the refutation into words.

I tried, and failed.

Think or remember what Jesus said to us believers when we are going to be dragged into court - "do not even think ahead of time what to say, because it will not be you speaking , but your Father speaking"

This is in perfect Harmony with all Scripture, and rarely known or remembered or practiced .....

Again, when the Father revealed to Simon barjona that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Son of the Living God,
Jesus told Simon that it was not flesh and blood (not of himself nor of others) that revealed this to him,
and
with many other witnesses showed that this is how the Father makes known the truth and Wisdom of Jesus to permanent disciples. (by revelation)

 

[justbyfaith]

The "we" in 1 John 1:6 is referring to the instance of whether we claim to be in the light and yet walk in darkness.

If we claim to be in the light...if we say that we have fellowship with Him...this can be anyone who claims to be a Christian.

The qualifying statement that makes them not a Christian is that they are walking in darkness.

In 1 John 1:8, the qualifying statement that makes them not a Christian is that they say that they have no sin.

So, 1 John 1:8 is also speaking of someone who is not a Christian; but what makes them not a Christian is not that they have sin; but that they say that they have no sin.