If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum - Agree, or disagree? - LOL

[St. SteVen]

"Agree, or disagree?"
That really is the question.

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum -
But, can we embrace disagreement? (and each other?)

How do you react when you encounter disagreement?

If I disagree with you, was it meant to be a declaration of war? (nope)
Now, it may depend on HOW we respond to one another.
Did I declare war with my reply, or just state my position?

Agreeable, or disagreeable?
That REALLY is the question.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Agree

 

[Episkopos]

I disagree. LOL But seriously there is much to come together and go deeper about...as a fraternal network. A house divided cannot stand.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think in any type of forum you will have disagreements.

We should look to try to see why these disagreements are happening. Maybe we can learn something and be open to the fact we may be wrong in what we were taught or believe.

where the issue comes in is you have some who do not really want to discuss. they want to push their view. and then they attack everyone who does not agree with them. when this happens, the discussion is lost. and the church looks like the world sees it. as hypocritical, hateful people.

its sad really

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I think in any type of forum you will have disagreements.

We should look to try to see why these disagreements are happening. Maybe we can learn something and be open to the fact we may be wrong in what we were taught or believe.

where the issue comes in is you have some who do not really want to discuss. they want to push their view. and then they attack everyone who does not agree with them. when this happens, the discussion is lost. and the church looks like the world sees it. as hypocritical, hateful people.

its sad really

Yes, it is sad... but you are never going to get the Armenians and the Calvinists to sing Kumbaya... nor
the Catholics and Protestants.

I have maintained that there is no church or synagogue that is 100% right and no church or synagogue that is 100% wrong. Say that in some groups and you will get a royal smack down.

Now having said that... You all remember the Tower of Babel.... and what God did and why.

Gen 11:
11 Now the whole earth [a]used the same language and [b]the same words. 2 It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and [c]settled there. 3 They said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly.” And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar. 4 They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” 5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have [d]the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be [e]impossible for them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their [f]language, so that they will not understand one another’s [g]speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called [h]Babel, because there the Lord confused the [i]language of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth.

I just think that it is possible where we have been given the assortment of beliefs that we all feel so strongly about...because everyone of us is certain we know what the meaning if is,is...... because if in unity, as mortals, we collectively may not use a singular belief in worship to God but as God said at Babel... (Please dont go with the
it is not real, never happened... it is in the bible as a lesson for us) As God said " “Behold, they are one people, and they all have [d]the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be [e]impossible for them."... clarity of one mind may not be good for us at all.

I am not suggesting this as a truth... but I can see the possibility of it.

 

[St. SteVen]

I just think that it is possible where we have been given the assortment of beliefs that we all feel so strongly about...because everyone of us is certain we know what the meaning if is,is...... because if in unity, as mortals, we collectively may not use a singular belief in worship to God...

Good post, thanks.
Reminded me of a series of topics I did some time back.

The tyranny of doctrinal unity - "Join or die."

A follow-up to the two previous topics: https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/would-you-surrender-your-own-beliefs-in-the-cause-of-doctrinal-unity.56191/ https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/unity-of-the-faith-at-what-cost.56095/ - Do you have the right to allow the Holy Spirit to...

www.christianityboard.com

Embracing Doctrinal Diversity - Unity in diversity

In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity, we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity. Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes) What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How...

www.christianityboard.com

Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of doctrinal unity?

This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Unity of the faith - at what cost? Link below. Probably the biggest roadblock to Christian doctrinal unity is holding on to the freedom we have to determine our own beliefs. Would you surrender your own beliefs in the cause of Christian doctrinal...

www.christianityboard.com

Unity of the faith - at what cost?

The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries. Are we there yet? (not by a long shot) Where is the problem? Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity. - Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences? - Does the Body...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

... there is much to come together and go deeper about...as a fraternal network. A house divided cannot stand.

Yes. I keep hammering away at this issue in the hopes of engendering a much more loving and sharing environment on the forum and between Christians of every stripe. --- By his stripes we are healed! --- Ha! never made that connection before. - LOL

Build bridges, not walls.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes. I keep hammering away at this issue in the hopes of engendering a much more loving and sharing environment on the forum and between Christians of every stripe. --- By his stripes we are healed! --- Ha! never made that connection before. - LOL

Build bridges, not walls.

Totally agree. But the heresy makers need to be exposed...judging people by accuracy of beliefs rather than by works.

Dogmatic Christianity destroys...or seeks to destroy ...a spiritual Christianity.

Love unites. Dogma divides.

TRUE doctrine (love on two levels) edifies.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, it is sad... but you are never going to get the Armenians and the Calvinists to sing Kumbaya... nor
the Catholics and Protestants.

I have maintained that there is no church or synagogue that is 100% right and no church or synagogue that is 100% wrong. Say that in some groups and you will get a royal smack down.

Now having said that... You all remember the Tower of Babel.... and what God did and why.

That is my point.

People are to stuck in what they were taught or their religion and their belief system, they can not just learn from others.

I agree, there is no 100 % church.. that is one major reason we should be open and seek. Not try to push and hold a blind eye to what others say

I just think that it is possible where we have been given the assortment of beliefs that we all feel so strongly about...because everyone of us is certain we know what the meaning if is,is...... because if in unity, as mortals, we collectively may not use a singular belief in worship to God but as God said at Babel... (Please dont go with the
it is not real, never happened... it is in the bible as a lesson for us) As God said " “Behold, they are one people, and they all have [d]the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be [e]impossible for them."... clarity of one mind may not be good for us at all.

I am not suggesting this as a truth... but I can see the possibility of it.

I would ask how many gospels there are (how many ways to heaven)

its one thing to disagree on a rapture or when it will happen. or how old the earth is.

its a far different thing to have all these differing views on how one will ultimately receive eternal life in heaven.

the jews were Gods people. and they worshiped. God. But they are enemies of the gospel. because they reject the gospel.

sadly many churches are really no different.

if we are in one of these churches that reject the gospel.. then we are in danger if we do not open our minds and hearts and put a hand out at those we say hate us by their other gospel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. I keep hammering away at this issue in the hopes of engendering a much more loving and sharing environment on the forum and between Christians of every stripe. --- By his stripes we are healed! --- Ha! never made that connection before. - LOL

Build bridges, not walls.

You can;t build bridged when you attack everyone who disagrees with you.

And you can;t help build bridges when you enable the people who do this..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Totally agree. But the heresy makers need to be exposed...judging people by accuracy of beliefs rather than by works.

Dogmatic Christianity destroys...or seeks to destroy ...a spiritual Christianity.

Love unites. Dogma divides.

TRUE doctrine (love on two levels) edifies.

as I said. i rest my case.

where is the unity here?

he just attacked everyone who does not agree with him as heretics.

is this bridge building?

will we stand up to this or enable it and attack those who do stand up to this

 

[Behold]

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum -

If we interpret what you mean, you are saying that..."unless everyone is allowed to post, whatever, no matter if its true, biblically correct, or if its God hating and Christ Rejecting,.....


Do you see the problem?

 

[St. SteVen]

Totally agree. But the heresy makers need to be exposed...judging people by accuracy of beliefs rather than by works.

Yes, but in love.
Challenging their falsehood in the hopes that they will wake up.

I had to bring myself up short yesterday when I was splitting hairs over word definitions with a brother
that was satisfied in his simple faith. Switched gears and encouraged him instead. Live and learn. (sigh)

Dogmatic Christianity destroys...or seeks to destroy ...a spiritual Christianity.

I believe these are the tares (not the individuals, but the deeds) that will be collected and burned.
Wood, hay, and stubble.

Love unites. Dogma divides.

Agree.

TRUE doctrine (love on two levels) edifies.

Agree.

 

[St. SteVen]

TRUE doctrine (love on two levels) edifies.

That's interesting.
Could unpack that a bit more for us? Thanks.

 

[Jack]

"Agree, or disagree?"
That really is the question.

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum -
But, can we embrace disagreement? (and each other?)

How do you react when you encounter disagreement?

If I disagree with you, was it meant to be a declaration of war? (nope)
Now, it may depend on HOW we respond to one another.
Did I declare war with my reply, or just state my position?

Agreeable, or disagreeable?
That REALLY is the question.

I totally agree. Wouldn't it be BORING!

 

[Episkopos]

If we interpret what you mean, you are saying that..."unless everyone is allowed to post, whatever, no matter if its true, biblically correct, or if its God hating and Christ Rejecting,.....


Do you see the problem?

They let you post. Why would that be? To challenge those who profess truth.

 

[ChristisGod]

"Agree, or disagree?"
That really is the question.

If everyone agreed, there wouldn't be much point to a forum -
But, can we embrace disagreement? (and each other?)

How do you react when you encounter disagreement?

If I disagree with you, was it meant to be a declaration of war? (nope)
Now, it may depend on HOW we respond to one another.
Did I declare war with my reply, or just state my position?

Agreeable, or disagreeable?
That REALLY is the question.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner !!!

 

[Episkopos]

That's interesting.
Could unpack that a bit more for us? Thanks.

Love of neighbour....unto righteousness. Love for God..unto holiness. Two levels, two standards. Brought together into one in Christ.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

That is my point.

People are to stuck in what they were taught or their religion and their belief system, they can not just learn from others.

I agree, there is no 100 % church.. that is one major reason we should be open and seek. Not try to push and hold a blind eye to what others say

I would ask how many gospels there are (how many ways to heaven)

its one thing to disagree on a rapture or when it will happen. or how old the earth is.

its a far different thing to have all these differing views on how one will ultimately receive eternal life in heaven.

the jews were Gods people. and they worshiped. God. But they are enemies of the gospel. because they reject the gospel.

sadly many churches are really no different.

if we are in one of these churches that reject the gospel.. then we are in danger if we do not open our minds and hearts and put a hand out at those we say hate us by their other gospel.

"People are to stuck in what they were taught or their religion and their belief system, they can not just learn from others."

I separate myself from this statement. I am not stuck... in part because of the blessing, or perhaps in some cases the curse of forums such as this.

Allow me to explain.

I, was raised on the Presbyterian Church beliefs and teachings. (The history of how my current church jumped ship about 15 years ago from USA to Evagelical is a story for another day) I never gave a single thought to what they were when decades ago my adoptive mom ( birth died and dad remarried and she adopted me) who, for the couple of years or so on Sunday mornings we would go to her RCC and hear a sermon, and wonder in amazement when we got to my Presby church it was basically the same thing. So, eventually when we moved to the new house and joined the Presby church just over the hill.. mom converted becasue she believes in one
religion in a family.

Before had, when I went through communicants class to join the church I honestly can say I don't remember much of what was taught... That would have been 63 years ago.

But all Presbyterian churches are the same today , as yesterday and they still hang their hats on Westminster Confession of Faith which does include predestination and very little is ever talked of on "free will"

So I had gone for most of my life... until that last 10 or 12 years in "my" security that I was one that God predestined... even though it is not really said like that ... at least in the churches I attended... it was more or less assumed.

So enter the Arminian / Calvinist debates that I have been following with rapt attention.

Reasonably secure in my churches beliefs... For the first time in my life I read what Calvin said about predestination.

Calvin: Predestination

Calvin on predestination: To his glory, God determined before all creation those who would obtain eternal life, and those who would receive eternal death.

www.theologian-theology.com

Predestination According to Calvin​

According to John Calvin, predestination is God’s unchangeable decree from before the creation of the world that he would freely save some people (the elect), foreordaining them to eternal life, while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death (180, 184).” Calvin was careful to distinguish the predestination of individuals from the corporate election of nations such as Israel (185). He argued that an explanation of predestination is only complete when it includes the election of individuals (187).

I saw this and while I do realize that God draws people to Jesus... John 6:44... I see nowhere that it ws ever said
He would only draw those he selected from before the creation of the world....

And the thoughts that He would bar access to salvation and send to eternal death... (some say damnation)

I just SMH at this.

SO I AM AT ODDS WITH MY OWN CHURCH> Wish I wasn't because I would feel more secure if I could believe
that I was predestined to be saved.... but I cant. Not any longer.

 

[ChristisGod]

I totally agree. Wouldn't it be BORING!

Yes indeed. The funny thing is we all will admit this is true otherwise none of us would be here if it were not to defend what we all believe is to be true. Its the very nature of online forums. If it was not true then there would only be one big forum and not the 75-100 sub forums on every Christian forum website.