If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's not the "stepping stones" to which I was referring - but to the outright lies that Grams spewing and the finger-pointing that should be directed at herself.

But her fears are based on those stepping stones, brother, for why she had formerly believed she had to go to the confessionals or she would go to hell.

If those stepping stones are taught as necessary because the Father or the Son is unapproachable, then how can she not think that?

And the Catholic catechism dictates that in spite of being incorporated into the Church and doing the sacraments within, if a Catholic does not persevere in charity, he is not saved even though still within that body of that Church. PG 222 #837

So how do you deal with words from the catechism that re enforce her fears about the confessional booths?

 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Actually - this is false.
There are Seven more books in the Catholic Bible because Protestants threw out those Books.
Well, BOL, for your information, what you have just stated is also false.

It is not Protestants who rejected the whole Apocrypha (including those seven books you cling to). It was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who rejected the Apocrypha. And I will leave you to study the NT and discover this for yourself. Chances are you still won't believe Christ because the RCC always trumps Christ.

Furthermore, long before the Protestants came on the scene, the Catholic scholar Jerome, who was well-versed in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin REJECTED the Apocrypha as Scripture. Yet he was compelled by the pope of that time to retain the apocryphal books in the Latin Vulgate.

Tobit
Judith
Wisdom
Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)
Baruch
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

After that the Council of Trent decided to call these books "Scripture" since the Protestants exposed the hoax which had been perpetrated.

The Apocrypha (what Catholics call Deutero-Canonical) are simply the uninspired writings of men. Some are OK but others are pure fantasy. And none of them talk about Purgatory. Maccabees talks about praying for the dead, but that has been fantasized into praying souls out of Purgatory -- a NON-EXISTENT imaginary place which Catholics are taught to expect. What a shame and what a disgrace.
 

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you know the story of Tobit?

I don't have to. His words says it all, brother. That wedding feast of the Lamb is coming when the Bridegroom takes us Home above, and not before.


I hope one day you will receive His peace and not the one the world does through the Catholic Church by doing works to gain grace by.
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,276
3,092
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I don't have to. His words says it all, brother

Tobits son Tobiah travels to his kinsmens land where he takes Sarah as his wife. The wedding feast begins there, and the marriage is consumated.
They set out to go to his home, and Tobiah goes ahead of her to prepare a place for her on his fathers house.
When she arrives the wedding feast continues....

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!
 

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Tobits son Tobiah travels to his kinsmens land where he takes Sarah as his wife. The wedding feast begins there, and the marriage is consumated.
They set out to go to his home, and Tobiah goes ahead of her to prepare a place for her on his fathers house.
When she arrives the wedding feast continues....

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

BUT that story does not confirm the wedding feast is continuing when the Bridegroom is not there, but elsewhere preparing for the bride for when the wedding feast actually continues in his home.

Since not every believer was at the Last Supper when Christ was here, the wedding feast of the Lamb is actually held when the Bridegroom comes.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,972
3,410
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But her fears are based on those stepping stones, brother, for why she had formerly believed she had to go to the confessionals or she would go to hell.

If those stepping stones are taught as necessary because the Father or the Son is unapproachable, then how can she not think that?

And the Catholic catechism dictates that in spite of being incorporated into the Church and doing the sacraments within, if a Catholic does not persevere in charity, he is not saved even though still within that body of that Church. PG 222 #837

So how do you deal with words from the catechism that re enforce her fears about the confessional booths?
And again - I'm NOT referring to her disdain for confession.

I am talking about her false statements about a lack of Scripture being read. I am also referring to her blaming the Church because she was too lazy to pick up a Bible during the week and read it.
HOW is the Church responsible for that??

And, as I indicated earlier - it's not about her "generation" as she claims.
My mother was an AVID Bible her entire life reader and she is in her 90s.

Whining and blaming others for YOUR lack of Scriptural enthusiasm is nobody's fault but yours . . .
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,972
3,410
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well, BOL, for your information, what you have just stated is also false.

It is not Protestants who rejected the whole Apocrypha (including those seven books you cling to). It was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who rejected the Apocrypha. And I will leave you to study the NT and discover this for yourself. Chances are you still won't believe Christ because the RCC always trumps Christ.

Furthermore, long before the Protestants came on the scene, the Catholic scholar Jerome, who was well-versed in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin REJECTED the Apocrypha as Scripture. Yet he was compelled by the pope of that time to retain the apocryphal books in the Latin Vulgate.

Tobit
Judith
Wisdom
Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)
Baruch
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

After that the Council of Trent decided to call these books "Scripture" since the Protestants exposed the hoax which had been perpetrated.

The Apocrypha (what Catholics call Deutero-Canonical) are simply the uninspired writings of men. Some are OK but others are pure fantasy. And none of them talk about Purgatory. Maccabees talks about praying for the dead, but that has been fantasized into praying souls out of Purgatory -- a NON-EXISTENT imaginary place which Catholics are taught to expect. What a shame and what a disgrace.
I suggest you study your history - and your Bible because you are DEAD wrong.

First of all - not only did Jesus and the NT writers NOT reject the 7 Deuterocanonical Books - which YOU mistakenly refer to as "Apocrypha" - they referred to or quoted them about 200 times in the NT.
For example - the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield in Eph. 6:13-17 follows Wis. 5:17-20 almost verbatim.

Secondly - Jerome didn't reject these books either. I suggest you do your homework to discover just exactly what he DID say about them - and WHY.
When Jerome was translating the Bible into Latin - he sought the assistance of JEWISH SCHOLARS who rejected these books. Jerome was merely stating THEIR opinions about them. Jerome not only considered them to be Sacred Scripture - he quoted them in his many debates as "Sacred Scripture".

Jerome wrote:
"What sin have I committed if I followed the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susanna, the Son of the Three Children, and the story of Bel and the Dragon, which are not found in the Hebrew volume (ie. canon), proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. For I wasn't relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they [the Jews] are wont to make against us" (Against Rufinus 11:33 [A.D. 402]).

Thirdly - the Canon of Scripture was NOT declared first at Trent in the 16th century - but at the Synod of Rome in AD 382.
It was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo eleven years later (393). At the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Finally - yes, it IS Protestantism that rejected these Books along with their POST-Christ, POST-Temple Jewish predecessors. Do your homework . . .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Reggie Belafonte

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't hate Catholics, but I do detest the fake Catholic church.

Follow Paul, as Paul followed Christ - 1Cor 4:16, 11:1, Phil 3:17
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,972
3,410
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't hate Catholics, but I do detest the fake Catholic church.

Follow Paul, as Paul followed Christ - 1Cor 4:16, 11:1, Phil 3:17
What is the "fake" Catholics Church - as opposed to the real Catholic Church?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Secondly - Jerome didn't reject these books either.
Yes, I did my homework. Please note:
"Jerome, conscious of the difficulty of arguing with Jews on the basis of books they spurned and anyhow regarding the Hebrew original as authoritative, was adamant that anything not found in it was ‘to be classed among the apocrypha’, not in the canon; later he grudgingly conceded that the Church read some of these books for edification, but not to support doctrine." [J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines (San Francisco: Harper, 1960), p. 55].

And it really does not matter what Jerome said or did not say. The Lord Jesus Christ -- NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- is the final authority.

And as far as the Lord was concerned, the only Hebrew Scriptures which were inspired were The Law (5 books), The Prophets (8 books) and the Psalms (11 books) (see Luke 44). These 24 books are an exact match to the Protestant Old Testament of 39 books. And the reason for the discrepancy in numbers is only because many of the books in the Hebrew Tanakh were simply split.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We all eat of the same loaf and drink of the same cup that Jesus gave to the apostles... The New Covenant is Now!! The wedding feast is Now!!!

Peace!

Not when Jesus isn't here with us physically to eat it with us, it is not. That feast is held in Heaven in our Father's House.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

JesusIsFaithful

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2015
1,765
438
83
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And again - I'm NOT referring to her disdain for confession.

I am talking about her false statements about a lack of Scripture being read. I am also referring to her blaming the Church because she was too lazy to pick up a Bible during the week and read it.
HOW is the Church responsible for that??

And, as I indicated earlier - it's not about her "generation" as she claims.
My mother was an AVID Bible her entire life reader and she is in her 90s.

Whining and blaming others for YOUR lack of Scriptural enthusiasm is nobody's fault but yours . . .

Sometime you protest way too much, brother, as civil as you try to be.

When others are claiming scriptural authority for how they are to read the Bible, then it's their fault for conning others just as it is the serpent's fault for conning Eve. Do note that the serpent did not get away unpunished, but yes, Eve was punished for doubting what God had said.

So basically, all Catholics should not believe what the Catholic Church teaches and read the King James Bible for themselves about the real Good News and how to look to Him for help in following Him as well as rest all their hopes in Jesus Christ and His words for all things rather than the Catholic Church.
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,276
3,092
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Not when Jesus isn't here with us physically to eat it with us, it is not. That feast is held in Heaven in our Father's House.

The wedding feast is indeed celebrated eternally in heaven.
The divine liturgy is a fortaste, an anticipation of that heavenly feast. It puts us all at the Last Supper, at the crucifixion, at the resurection, at the birth of the Church...
And sends us all out to:

Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in here the poor and the crippled, the blind and the lame.'

The servant reported, 'Sir, your orders have been carried out and still there is room.'

The master then ordered the servant, 'Go out to the highways and hedgerows and make people come in that my home may be filled.

Pax!
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
KJV only......

Really?!

Of all the weird Protestant ideas......I think KJV only is one of the least defensible. I guess Sola Scriptura is right up there too on the list of indefensible ideas, but at least i understand the logic - KJV only just sounds like a preference that has gotten way out of hand
 
Last edited:

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,452
2,610
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Catholic Church teaches at sacraments are ESSENTIAL for salvation. Yes and that they impart grace.

But Scripture says: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.
100% correct.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,452
2,610
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then you didn't read my post.
There are INDEED anti-Catholics here.

An anti-Catholic is a person who LIES about what Catholics believe in and teach - and MANY here do that . . .
We "worship" Mary.
We "worship" idols.
We "worship" the saints in Heaven.
We don't believe we are saved by the finished work of Christ on the cross.
"Millions" of people were "murdered" during the Inquisitions.
The Catholic Church was started by Constantine in the 4th century and he was the first Pope
And this idiotic list goes on . . .

Don't
tell me there are "no anti-Catholics" here until you can point me to a thread about Catholicism that doesn't contain this manure . . .
I disagree that criticizing Catholic practices is "anti-Catholic" - it's anti-Catholic doctrine, upon which their practices are founded.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,452
2,610
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Whatever the reason for leaving - blaming the Catholic Church because YOU don't read the Bible is cop-out.
There is more Scripture read during a Catholic Mass than at ANY Protestant service I have ever attended - and I've been to quite a few. 9 of my 12 siblings are Protestant.

As for being a "man-centered" religion - there is nothing more "man-centered" than following the teachings of a man like Luther or Calvin or Zwingili or Smythe or any of the others rather than those of Jesus Christ who is GOD.
God centered religion is found where people are pointed to the Bible and man-centered religion is found where Bibles were chained to pulpits and forbidden to be read by the people for themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Dcopymope