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Featured Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by jknbt, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    We'll have to disagree then, because Paul's "reckon" idea is to suppose we are dead to sin; it doesn't mean we can never sin again, which is the very subject of 1 John 1, because John spoke of those who deny that they still mess up at times and sin.
     
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I believe we still live in our flesh bodies which do sin when allowed, using the same flesh mind that we've had since birth. I likewise believe that being born again, we are now no longer that man, instead we are God's spirit children. Just as Jesus lived in a terrestrial body, though He is from heaven, we also, though born of God, still live in a terrestrial body.

    Jesus' body had no corruption from sin, being the Last Man, a new creation, not born from Adam's line. Ours, on the other hand, not so.

    So that which is born of God sins not. The new creation, created according to God, in righteousness and true holiness. That which is born of Adam is dead in sin.

    I don't think God ever intends for us, His children, to think something that's not true.

    Much love!
     
  3. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Do you know that what Jesus did was condemn sin in the flesh? In other words, killed the desire to commit willful sins of lawlessness. That is by His Spirit. It is not our puny willpower, but His all powerful Spirit. If we are not baptized in the Spirit, we cannot be saved.
     
  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I've understood this to mean not that desire to commit sins is removed from the flesh, else how would God tell us in Galatians that the flesh lusts against the spirit?

    Rather that sin is judged, condemned, resoundingly rejected, sentenced to death, and executed. This results in the circumcision of our hearts, the separation of us from our body of flesh, though it remains what it was.

    Much love!
     
  5. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    Christians still sin whether they acknowledge it or not is another story.
     
  6. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    If you believe Christians don't sin , what will you tell Apostle Paul who spoke of the agony & conflict with having two natures?
    Romans 7:14-25
    "14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

    21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."
     
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  7. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Like many people who don't look for context, you started with verse 14, but verse 13 tells the context 14-23 should be seen in. Then chapter 8 makes more sense. The reason why the unsaved, who actually know the law like the OT Jews and Pharisees, can't keep the law is sin in the original carnal nature inherited due to Adam's first sin. That is what Jesus' death dealt with, the carnal nature, and why He is called the second Adam, and is exactly why we need to be born again of the Spirit. That is what makes us dead to sin. The Spirit. What you quoted is those under the law only without the Spirit. But Paul is comparing that state with chapter 8 of introducing the Spirit through Christ Jesus. It is LAW vs. SPIRIT. Those that repent of their sin are cleansed of all their past sin, but Jesus doesn't stop there. He then gives us His Spirit to make us not desire to sin in the present and future. False doctrine teaches the opposite - that we will always have to battle the flesh. But Jesus condemns sin in the flesh, and if we are in the Spirit, then we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. It is up to us to not grieve or quench the Spirit, because then we are like a dog going back to eat up his own vomit. We cannot live in two realms - the Spirit and the flesh. The saved stay walking in the Spirit. Those who do not stay in the Spirit, start to love sin more, and again become slaves of sin.

    Romans 7:13
    13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

    Romans 8:2
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Seeing as you like Roman 7:14-25, I bet you believe the 1 John 1:8 describes a born again Christian also.
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since the three epistles of John were written to born again Christians, what makes you think that 1 John 1:8 is an exception?

    Are you claiming sinless perfection for yourself, or do you examine yourself daily as John tells you to do? Unbelievable.
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That is a given. Which does not mean that Christians cannot refuse to sin. Neither does it mean that all will be sinlessly perfect. Hence all the exhortations in the epistles.
     
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  11. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Does dispensationalism teach that Christians should reject the O.T.?
     
  12. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    Not to, about.

    Enoch, have you ever asked yourself why 8 and 10 are separated by one verse, and also 6 and 8 are separated by one verse?
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Not reject just ignore as being relevant to us. They also reject the gospels and the words of Jesus. :(
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    No, I don't teach sinless perfection. But there are two types of sin, one of which is dead in us because of God indwelling us, and we have no desire to commit, as in 1 John 3:9. It is the context of 1 John 3:4. Those are the sins unto death shown in 1 John 5:16-17.

    So what about the other? Those we do commit even while walking in the Spirit, but as 1 John 1:7 shows, the blood of Jesus is (automatically and continually) cleansing them - making us appear to God as sinless, if we forgive others the same type of sin who commit them against us.

    Matthew 6:14-16
    14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
     
  15. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Well then what DO they believe?
    Only the letters?
    More than Jesus?
    Yes, I do remember coming across this and telling people they should listen to Jesus more than anyone else....
     
  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Could you give an example of the sin in 1 John 3:9 because no one I know understands it in the way you've presented.
    (I mean persons that teach the bible)
     
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    They think they are following Paul...as if he had a gospel for Gentiles that was different from that of Jesus or even Peter. They can't fathom the oneness in Christ...because they don't know the power of the gospel.
     
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  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    OK. It's those persons that talk about the gospel of grace....I guess.
    I have told them that there's only ONE GOSPEL,,,not two.
    Paul agreed with Jesus on everything...

    Thanks E. I think I understand.
     
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  19. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    I have heard people on this forum claiming they do not sin and to be a Christian means that they don't sin.
     
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  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Active Member

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    I know what you mean. Most Protestants have been influenced by the Reformation, initially what Martin Luther taught (Yikes!) That is why you haven't heard what I teach, but it is scriptural, more than anything out of the Reformation.

    The sin of 1 John 3:9 is in context of verse 4 at the beginning of the passage. Lawlessness would be against the law, or Ten Commandments. Bearing false witness, also called lying is one of the commandments. Do you remember Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5? They lied, and God killed them on the spot. That is also true in the Old Testament in Numbers 15:30-36. But, also read Numbers 15:22-29. Those two passages distinguish the difference in the two kinds of sin - willful lawlessness, and unintentional trespasses (Leviticus 5:15). But with willful sins of lawlessness, the wages of sin is death.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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