Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

[charity]

* A Quote from Miles Coverdale, which is a helpful tool in studying the Bible :-

“It shall greatly help ye
to understand the Scriptures
if thou mark not only what is spoken or written,
but of whom
and to whom,
with what words,
at what time,
where,
to what intent,
with what circumstances,
considering what goeth before
and what followeth after. ”

* Which reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's,'I Keep Six Honest Serving-men':-

I KEEP six honest serving-men

(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When

And How and Where and Who.
I send them over land and sea,

I send them east and west;
But after they have worked for me,

I give them all a rest.

I let them rest from nine till five,

For I am busy then,
As well as breakfast, lunch, and tea,

For they are hungry men.
But different folk have different views;

I know a person small—
She keeps ten million serving-men,

Who get no rest at all!

She sends 'em abroad on her own affairs,

From the second she opens her eyes—
One million Hows, two million Wheres,

And seven million Whys!

---------------------------

With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head
Chris

 

[Willie T]

God,
Who at sundry times
.. and in divers manners
.... spake in time past
...... unto the fathers
........ by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,
Whom He hath appointed heir of all things,
by Whom also He made the worlds; ... (ie., the ages)
(Hebrews 1:1-2)

Praise God!

Hi there,

Dispensationalism: is merely a means to an end. It is a Bible Study tool, which distinguishes the 'sundry times' and 'divers manners', by, and, in which, God has spoken to mankind: and the content, manner and conditions which applied to each subsequent administration, consequent on that spoken word. This is important for us to know: for it enables us to distinguish the particular 'administration' of God applicable to our ourselves; following the word of God spoken to us, 'through them that Heard Him', and written down for our learning; that we may know His known will for us, in regard to our walk and worship, 'In Christ', in this dispensation.

Otherwise we are in danger of walking according to an administration, which though 'of God' has passed; which affects our worship, walk and witness; and does despite to the Word of God, and the pattern which it is intended to portray regarding the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, now risen and glorified; and the wondrous grace of God, His purpose and His will within this present dispensation.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Now, all you have to do is decide whether you are going to align your obedience with 3, 7, 8, 9 or 37 different ways of being spoken to. LOL

 

[Willie T]

Hello @Willie T,

Though I can understand why you LOL, at that possibility. However, it has no basis in fact, for there can be no doubt as to what was spoken when and to whom.

It isn't helpful to make this kind of remark, no matter how lightheartedly it was intended, unless there is a basis for it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai were not the Ten Suggestions. They are commandments. ARE, not were. The sheer brilliance of the Ten Commandments is that they codify, in a handful of words, acceptable human behavior, not just for then or now, but for all time. Language evolves. Power shifts from one nation to another. Messages are transmitted with the speed of light. Man erases one frontier after another. And yet we and our behavior and the commandments governing that behavior remain the same.

 

[Willie T]

I think God just might be insulted at the way we have put restraints and limitations on the work He gave us to do.
All Christians admit that God's principles can be used to reform the individual. They also understand that if this is the case, then the family can be reformed according to God's Word. Next, the church is capable of restoration. But then they stop. Mention the State, and they say, "No; nothing can be done to restore the State. The State is inherently, permanently satanic. It is a waste of time to work to heal the State." I ask: Why not?

They never tell you why not. They never point to a passage in the Bible that tells you why the church and family can be healed by God's Word and Spirit, but the State can't be. Today, it is the unique message of a small minority that civil government, like family government and church government, is under the Bible-revealed law of God and therefore is capable in principle of being reformed according to God's law.


This means that God has given to the Christian community as a whole, enormous responsibility throughout history. This God-given responsibility is far greater than merely preaching a gospel of exclusively personal salvation. The gospel we preach must apply to every area of life that has been fouled by sin and its effects. The church and individual Christian evangelists must preach the biblical gospel of comprehensive redemption, not just personal soul-winning. Wherever sin reigns, there the gospel must be at work, transforming and restoring. The only area of life outside of the reach of Spirit-empowered restoration is an area that was not affected by the fall of man. This, of course, means no area at all.

 

[Davy]

Both Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 are not Christians. Common mistake. Too common, in fact. Doesn't anyone read in context anymore?

The same word for sin is used in 1 John 1:15-16 for sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death. It takes study to learn the difference. Most translations of Luke 11:2-4 use the word "debt" which is altogether different than what you say as sin. Debts are not sins unto death. They are trespasses. Using the word "sin" can be misinterpreted as sins unto death, and completely lose the truth.

Nah..., I showed you there is no difference in the Greek between the usage of KJV "sins" in Luke 11 vs. 1 John 1-3, so you cannot fall upon an excuse of translation.

As for the Books of Romans and 1 John 1, Paul is speaking to the Church among the Romans, and John is speaking to brethren that had already believed on Jesus. Both... groups are Christians! So I don't know where you got the crazy idea that they aren't. And the Book of Romans is one of the foundational... Books on Christian doctrine.

You obviously are not someone for Christian brethren to be listening to, until you get your facts straight.

 

[Davy]

Well, just like in Romans 7 you are teaching that we need to try to overcome sin in our own power. WRONG! Can't be done.

Jesus commanded us to overcome, and you... say that's wrong?

Those who say we never have need to repent, asking forgiveness of sins after having believed on Jesus, are serving doctrines of devils.

Those on the Grace movement don't like what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 7 because there he showed we will still slip up because of the law in our fleshy members, and 1 John 1 they don't like because John is telling us to repent to Jesus when we do slip up.


And it was actually Romans 6 where Apostle Paul was admonishing the Church to watch out for sin...

Rom 6:12-16
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
KJV

But the Grace movement of man says we never... have need to repent of sins after having come to Jesus. The reason that is a doctrine of devils is because it suggests to the believer that he/she can be perfect in their flesh like Jesus was when He was in the flesh, which is in essence to say that one is a perfect saviour unto their self! And we should easily know who had that original sin back when he first rebelled in wanting to be The GOD.

 

[Willie T]

Actually, I think it is a rude thing to keep asking God to forgive you when He already said that you are forgiven for all time... for sins both past and present.

Certainly, express your sorrow and disappointment in repeated failures. But, don't insult Him by sounding like you didn't really believe Him when He said He has already forgiven us.

Instead, thank Him for the forgiveness He has already given us for all time.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Nah..., I showed you there is no difference in the Greek between the usage of KJV "sins" in Luke 11 vs. 1 John 1-3, so you cannot fall upon an excuse of translation.

As for the Books of Romans and 1 John 1, Paul is speaking to the Church among the Romans, and John is speaking to brethren that had already believed on Jesus. Both... groups are Christians! So I don't know where you got the crazy idea that they aren't. And the Book of Romans is one of the foundational... Books on Christian doctrine.

You obviously are not someone for Christian brethren to be listening to, until you get your facts straight.

A false doctrine has been around for centuries. I'm sorry, but you have been caught in its snare. Ask yourself a question.

What was the purpose of Jesus dying for us? Was it just to save us from the punishment of lawless sin, or to free us from committing willful sin, itself?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Actually, I think it is a rude thing to keep asking God to forgive you when He already said that you are forgiven for all time... for sins both past and present.

Certainly, express your sorrow and disappointment in repeated failures. But, don't insult Him by sounding like you didn't really believe Him when He said He has already forgiven us.

Instead, thank Him for the forgiveness He has already given us for all time.

You are half right. We really need to truly repent once. But that is only for past sins. If you truly repented, Jesus will give you power to not sin in the present or future by giving you His sinless Holy Spirit. Paul says, if you willfully sin after being sanctified you have gone back to being a slave to sin and of the devil. Then, yes, you do have to repent to be reconciled back to God if possible.

 

[Willie T]

You are half right. We really need to truly repent once. But that is only for past sins. If you truly repented, Jesus will give you power to not sin in the present or future by giving you His sinless Holy Spirit.

Then, if you sin after once repenting (and I assume that you, like everyone else on Earth, has sinned again) then none of us — as you just put it — were ever "truly" repentant?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Then, if you sin after once repenting (and I assume that you, like everyone else on Earth, has sinned again) then none of us — as you just put it — were ever "truly" repentant?

I can only tell you my own experience. I was in church for 30 years without any power to not sin. And out of ritual, not true repentance, I would ask God to forgive me of my sins. God knows the heart. I was in church, unsaved, and not born again of the Spirit. Then one night at church, 42 years ago, at the culmination of a chain of events, I asked God to scrub me clean and to create a new heart in me. This was not ritual, and God answered my prayer. For the first time in my life I heard God's voice, saw a vision and was filled to overflowing with power that I had never known. That power has never left, and I continue to hear His voice. I wasn't perfect by any means, but I was no longer a slave to sins unto death. 1 John 3:4, and 1 John 5:16-17. And over the years I have matured spiritually, and hope to continue maturing. The sins I commit now are only trespasses (sins NOT unto death). 1 John 1:7 shows us that while we walk in the Spirit, the blood of Jesus is still cleansing these sins. Jesus is our Advocate for this type of sin, but not for willful sins unto death. A trespass (Lev. 5:15) are unwittingly committed. In other words, are unintentionally committed. Even unknown to you that you are committing any type of mistake or flaw at all. It is this type of sin that is referred to in the Lord's Prayer - debts/trespasses. But, and this is a big "But," we have to forgive others their trespasses against us if we want to be forgiven ourselves. Stay loving and forgiving.

 

[farouk]

I can only tell you my own experience. I was in church for 30 years without any power to not sin. And out of ritual, not true repentance, I would ask God to forgive me of my sins. God knows the heart. Then one night at church, 42 years ago, at the culmination of a chain of events, I asked God to scrub me clean and to create a new heart in me. This was not ritual, and God answered my prayer. For the first time in my life I heard God's voice, saw a vision and was filled to overflowing with power that I had never known. That power has never left, and I continue to hear His voice. I wasn't perfect by any means, but I was no longer a slave to sins unto death. 1 John 3:4, and 1 John 5:16-17. And over the years I have matured spiritually, and hope to continue maturing. The sins I commit now are only trespasses (sins NOT unto death). 1 John 1:7 shows us that while we walk in the Spirit, the blood of Jesus is still cleansing these sins. Jesus is our Advocate for this type of sin, but not for willful sins unto death. A trespass (Lev. 5:15) are unwittingly committed. In other words, are unintentionally committed. Even unknown to you that you are committing any type of mistake or flaw at all. It is this type of sin that is referred to in the Lord's Prayer - debts/trespasses. But, and this is a big "But," we have to forgive others their trespasses against us if we want to be forgiven ourselves. Stay loving and forgiving.

I see your various quotes from John's First Epistle; it's a really wonderful little book, full of assurance to the true believer.

 

[Davy]

A false doctrine has been around for centuries. I'm sorry, but you have been caught in its snare. Ask yourself a question.

What was the purpose of Jesus dying for us? Was it just to save us from the punishment of lawless sin, or to free us from committing willful sin, itself?

You need to do a lot more Bible study before you attempt to discuss such things. You are not staying with the Biblical facts of written Scripture, which is the measure of all things.

 

[Davy]

Actually, I think it is a rude thing to keep asking God to forgive you when He already said that you are forgiven for all time... for sins both past and present.

Certainly, express your sorrow and disappointment in repeated failures. But, don't insult Him by sounding like you didn't really believe Him when He said He has already forgiven us.

Instead, thank Him for the forgiveness He has already given us for all time.

Apostle Paul did not say all your future sins are automatically forgiven. He said sins that are past. Might want to stick to the actual Scripture instead of what men say...

Rom 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
KJV


We are to have a 'daily'... walk with Christ Jesus, asking Him forgiveness when we mess up, not just a one-time experience at the altar.

 

[Willie T]

Apostle Paul did not say all your future sins are automatically forgiven. He said sins that are past. Might want to stick to the actual Scripture instead of what men say...

Rom 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
KJV


We are to have a 'daily'... walk with Christ Jesus, asking Him forgiveness when we mess up, not just a one-time experience at the altar.

So you continue to walk a tightrope over Hell, fearing moment-by-moment damnation if there is something you forget to "repent" of each minute? Kind of a sad way to live. I know... I was taught the same thing back in my CoC days.

 

[CharismaticLady]

 

[Helen]

Agree @Willie T

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So you continue to walk a tightrope over Hell, fearing moment-by-moment damnation if there is something you forget to "repent" of each minute? Kind of a sad way to live. I know... I was taught the same thing back in my CoC days.

I don't think that's what Davy is saying at all.

I have heard this each every minute crap sprouted, oh if you leave one Sin out in repenting before you die, then your going to hell, what nonsense !
Who thinks up such rubbish. only mans madness thinks up such rubbish because they know not God, they must think he is a tyrant.
Or they come up with the one, Oh you thought something Sinful like Lust, as if it's the same as carrying such out as if i holds the same gravity ? what BS !
Sure the thought is an offence to the Holy Spirit, but did it corrupt you, was it fleeting moment of a thought and was finished with and not consuming you ?
But if it consumes you in your thoughts then you have a problem because it's tempting you but if it was a fleeting moment it's nothing to worry about because you have it in the bag.

The Prot lie of everyone being totally corrupted is the work of Satan. sure if one swallows such a line, then they are truly themselves not Saved and are doing a works religion, as if Jesus died for all your Sins regardless of what you do. well that's not true, because what's the point if you have not changed and become born again, so that you have Christ Jesus within you.

The thing is that no one goes to Heaven unless you are born again, being Christ right hand ? and the Left hand is lost, as they only say what they did, as it's not what Christ Jesus did in them, to be sure to be sure because they know not.
When one calls on the Lord Jesus, one must know him or it's not valid.
Others who call the name ? may not know him, as all they doing is calling their own god ego or Idol, sadly most only do such and that's why they add Socialism into Christianity = a mans works, thinking that they are bringing in the kingdom of God by representing man, Human rights ect ?

What did Jesus Christ say ? Servitude, you must serve the Lord your Saviour ! if you do not serve him you are going to Hell because the Holy Spirit must be obeyed above all. turn and repent and serve the Lord Jesus you must gladly. you are then not working but the Holy Spirit is working in you.

 

[Davy]

So you continue to walk a tightrope over Hell, fearing moment-by-moment damnation if there is something you forget to "repent" of each minute? Kind of a sad way to live. I know... I was taught the same thing back in my CoC days.

It's not about a relationship with the fairy godmother granting a wish and then disappearing; it's about a family type relationship with The Father and The Son. When a son does wrong, does he try to hide what he did from his father, or does he go to his father and say he's sorry, and that he won't do it again? And the father who is just, will forgive the son who comes to him asking forgiveness, and thus the family relationship is preserved.

Rev 3:19
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
KJV

Heb 12:7-8
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
KJV

 

[farouk]

Personally I do find it useful to distinguish between the church and Israel and figure in Scripture which events apply to whom.