Jesus's "siblings".

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Sigma

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I've done the work to prove that Jesus's kinsmen/relatives Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of His mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), and thus His cousins (see opening post).

If you reject my position, I challenge you to try to defend yours by answering the questions under each section of scriptural verses below.
If you have a sliver of conviction, you'll attempt to do so.

Note: The Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός'' (adelphoi;brothers) and "ἀδελφή" (adelphai;sisters) have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) in the plural (adelphoi) regularly refers to men and women.

I. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)


Do you agree the mutually shared definition "a near kinsman, or relative,'' e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., of the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) and "αδελφαι" (adelphai; sisters) applies in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4? If so, what type of family members were Jesus's brothers and sisters to Him, and what is your evidence to support this?

II. "And when His own people heard about this..." (Mk. 3:21)

Which family members are being referred to in Mk. 3:2, and what is your evidence to support this?

III. "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him." (Matt. 12:46-47)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31-32)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19-20)


What evidence do you have that supports the definition "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., of the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) applies in Matt. 12:46/Mk. 3:31-32/Lk. 8:19-20? Which family members were these brothers of Jesus, and what is your evidence to support this?

IV. "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days." (Jn. 2:12)

What evidence do you have that supports the definition "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., of the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) applies in Jn. 2:12? Which family members were these brothers of Jesus, and what is your evidence to support this?

V. "So His brothers said to Him, 'Move on from here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. For no one does anything in secret [when he himself is striving to be known publicly. If You are doing these things, show Yourself to the world.' For not even His brothers believed in Him." (Jn. 7:3-5)

What evidence do you have that supports the definition "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., of the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) applies in Jn. 7:3-5? Which family members were these brothers of Jesus, and what is your evidence to support this?

VI. "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers." (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have that supports the definition "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., of the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) applies in Ac. 1:14? Which family members were these brothers of Jesus, and what is your evidence to support this?

VII. "Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him for fifteen days. But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother." (Gal. 1:18-19)

Do you believe James in Gal. 1:19 and James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were the same person? If so, what evidence do you have to support this?

VIII. "Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Cor. 9:5)

What evidence do you have that supports the definition "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., of the Koine Greek word "ἀδελφοί" (adelphoi; brothers) applies in 1 Cor. 9:5? Which family members were these brothers of Jesus, and what is your evidence to support this?

IX. "He appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve..." (1 Cor. 15:5)

"After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters (disciples) at one time..." (1 Cor. 15:6)

"then He appeared to James, then to
all the apostles, and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also." (1 Cor. 15:7)

Do you believe James in 1 Cor. 15:7 and James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were the same person? If so, what evidence do you have to support this?
 
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rwb

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Mark writes they were not only biologically half brothers and sisters, with Mary being their mother, they were "in his own house." This leaves little doubt that Mary mothered sons and daughters after Jesus.

Mark 6:3-4 (KJV) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
 

Brakelite

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Has anyone considered the possibility that those brothers and sisters were children of Joseph from a previous marriage, Joseph being a widower when he married Mary?
 

Behold

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Has anyone considered the possibility that those brothers and sisters were children of Joseph from a previous marriage, Joseph being a widower when he married Mary?

Has anyone considered why Jesus called his mother "woman", instead of "mother", when He was on the Cross?

Has anyone considered that the "cult of Mary", teaches that Mary is above all women, yet the bible says she's "blessed among women"?

Just keep in mind that the same cult that created the Dark Ages and burned Joan of Arc, then later decided to use her as a Catholic "Saint" , is the same religious entity that decided in '1961 that their followers could finally read the bible for themselves.
Until then they were told to "come to us for the answers".. "we will show you what to think about the scriptures".
 
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rwb

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Why not? What is there in scripture to declare otherwise? Not writing this as a supporter of the cult of Mary, just from the view of biblical integrity.

Because there is not a single verse or passage found in Scripture to corroborate this assumption. You're arguing from Biblical silence!
 

rwb

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Why not? What is there in scripture to declare otherwise? Not writing this as a supporter of the cult of Mary, just from the view of biblical integrity.

One more thought comes to mind. Both Mary and Joseph were young, do you really believe Joseph could have been married even earlier in his youth, long enough for him to father all these children?
 
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quietthinker

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One more thought comes to mind. Both Mary and Joseph were young, do you really believe Joseph could have been married even earlier in his youth, long enough for him to father all these children?
didn't you hear what Bakelite asked?
 

rwb

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didn't you hear what Bakelite asked?

Yes, I believe I rightly heard the question asked. Which is why I answered 'no', because I do not believe Joseph was married and widowed with children before marrying Mary, because there is nothing in Scripture that says or even suggests it.
 
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Behold

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, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

And here is Jesus again referring to your brothers, your sisters, and mother and father, exactly as He did, in your verse.. @rwb

5 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

6. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (kin).

And How does Jesus cause this serious strife in a FAMILY?

Simple.

If you have a family of unbelievers, and one of them becomes a Christian, then the entire family will be at ODDS, with the Believer.

And if the family is JEWISH, then its worse case scenario., unless the Family is MUSLIM.
 

Eternally Grateful

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One more thought comes to mind. Both Mary and Joseph were young, do you really believe Joseph could have been married even earlier in his youth, long enough for him to father all these children?
Amen

to even think this is to ignore the culture and how two children are brought together
 
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quietthinker

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One more thought comes to mind. Both Mary and Joseph were young, do you really believe Joseph could have been married even earlier in his youth, long enough for him to father all these children?
Could it be possible that Joseph was an older man? I don't think it's out of the question.
 

rwb

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Could it be possible that Joseph was an older man? I don't think it's out of the question.

Unless you have something from Scripture, then no, we cannot ASSUME Joseph might have been an older man. That would be trying to force Scripture to fit our assumptions.
 
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quietthinker

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Unless you have something from Scripture, then no, we cannot ASSUME Joseph might have been an older man. That would be trying to force Scripture to fit our assumptions.
Do we assume people in Jesus time never brushed their teeth because it is not affirmed in Scripture? Would it be trying to force Scripture to fit our assumptions if we said they practised oral hygiene?

Isn't he purpose of scripture is to witness to Jesus? We don't need to draw conclusions about whether to have Vegemite for breakfast on toast by appealing to texts in scripture.
 

Sigma

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Mark writes they were not only biologically half brothers and sisters, with Mary being their mother, they were "in his own house." This leaves little doubt that Mary mothered sons and daughters after Jesus.

Mark 6:3-4 (KJV) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Are you going to answer the questions under each section of verses in the opening post, or do you refuse?
 

Sigma

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Mark writes they were not only biologically half brothers and sisters, with Mary being their mother, they were "in his own house." This leaves little doubt that Mary mothered sons and daughters after Jesus.

Mark 6:3-4 (KJV) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Mark didn't write that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Judas/Thaddeus) are sons of Mary, nor Jesus's siblings, but rather His "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. αδελφαι adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brothers" in English, and it has multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative". We agree the definition that applies to Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc. As of right now, you've only assumed the type of kinsmen/relatives that applies is siblings, not shown why it does, and an assumption doesn't "leave little doubt" that they were Jesus's siblings.
 
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